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Old 01-19-2018, 03:23 PM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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So if a government employee gets sent home during the shutdown without pay, but later gets paid for that time, isn't that a paid vacation?
Seems like it's better than a layoff when someone is working in private industry. Been there!
Trying not to be political and not blaming either party because BOTH parties are to blame.
Oh yeah, I heard that the congress will get paid...
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:23 PM   #22
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Thank goodness. One less thing for me to worry about this weekend.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:26 PM   #23
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I would argue that the 1.3 million active duty military, whose pay will be delayed, suffer the most.
+1. And yes,their pay stops unless congress passes a seperate bill to fund military pay. Retiree pay, however, continues. I am a retiree and that is just backasswards.

Many junior enlisted families are truly paycheck to paycheck or worse. And often exacerbated with the military member deployed to some sh!thole country across the globe.

But other than that, its a snooze fest. Yawn, zzzzzz.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:32 PM   #24
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So if a government employee gets sent home during the shutdown without pay, but later gets paid for that time, isn't that a paid vacation?
It sure is, but that is not guaranteed to happen although that has been past practice. Federal employees vote too and congresscritters are very much aware of that.

Both my ex and DW were federal employees and both did at one time or another get a short paid and unplanned vacation.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:35 PM   #25
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According to a number of sources there have been 18 government shutdowns since the current budgeting rules were enacted in 1976. IMO it is just politics and will have little/no effect on the markets.

Other effects (delayed paychecks, closed parks) are real but likely to be very short-term. They may not even happen as a lot of that is up to the Administration.
NPR just said that this government shut down would be the first time ever when one party controls the House, Senate and the White House, so it would be a little different than the prior shut downs.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:37 PM   #26
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Govt shut downs are irrelevant to earnings never amount to any financial damage. Media noise I guess.
Apparently Mr. Market agrees with you (New Highs Today!!), at least in the short term.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:43 PM   #27
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I've been a government contractor since 1992, so I got to experience two shutdowns: 1995-96 and the 2013 one. For the first one, they made all the government people stay home, except for a few, but all us contractors had to come in, and essentially, twiddle our thumbs. I remember my supervisor telling me go ahead, take a long lunch, and stuff like that, to keep us from going bored. We did have the internet by that time, but it was in its infancy so it wasn't quite the time waster it is today. We contractors got paid normally, for the '95-96 furlough.

The 2013 furlough was a bit of a mess though. They didn't pay us, so we had to use up our leave, or go with leave without pay. Eventually, the government did get paid, but they were planning to screw us contractors over. Finally though, our company caved, and paid us back for all the leave we used, but it was several months later. I think this varied by company though; it's possible not everybody got reimbursed.

As for this one, if it happens, we have no idea. They're telling us to use our vacation time again, but we don't know if we'll be reimbursed or not.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:54 PM   #28
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I've been a government contractor since 1992, so I got to experience two shutdowns: 1995-96 and the 2013 one. For the first one, they made all the government people stay home, except for a few, but all us contractors had to come in, and essentially, twiddle our thumbs. I remember my supervisor telling me go ahead, take a long lunch, and stuff like that, to keep us from going bored. We did have the internet by that time, but it was in its infancy so it wasn't quite the time waster it is today. We contractors got paid normally, for the '95-96 furlough.

The 2013 furlough was a bit of a mess though. They didn't pay us, so we had to use up our leave, or go with leave without pay. Eventually, the government did get paid, but they were planning to screw us contractors over. Finally though, our company caved, and paid us back for all the leave we used, but it was several months later. I think this varied by company though; it's possible not everybody got reimbursed.

As for this one, if it happens, we have no idea. They're telling us to use our vacation time again, but we don't know if we'll be reimbursed or not.
Not trying to start an argument, but if you did not work, why SHOULD you be paid? Why is that different than any other hourly worker? And, by definition, all contract work is hourly.

In my experience, not with the government, contract workers are paid a premium BECAUSE they can be laid off, or told not not to come in, on a moments notice, when the work load is down.

It sounds to me that your first experience was a case of the contracting company "playing" the government. "Hey, we are here, you need to pay us".

In your second, it sounds like your company took the hit to keep workers happy.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:55 PM   #29
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As one example, the Department of Energy has notified employees and contractors to report to work on Monday regardless of "shutdown", and they expect to be able to operate for a while before furloughs kick in. In the past DOE always operated with a month or two of carry over funding (appropriated last fiscal year but not spent).

DOE's press release explains it:

https://energy.gov/articles/departme...propriations-0
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:17 PM   #30
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Does anyone know anyone who missed a pay check from a govt shutdown? Has anyone ever seen any evidence that Wall st has ever been effected by a shutdown?
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:28 PM   #31
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Not trying to start an argument, but if you did not work, why SHOULD you be paid? Why is that different than any other hourly worker? And, by definition, all contract work is hourly.

In my experience, not with the government, contract workers are paid a premium BECAUSE they can be laid off, or told not not to come in, on a moments notice, when the work load is down.

It sounds to me that your first experience was a case of the contracting company "playing" the government. "Hey, we are here, you need to pay us".

In your second, it sounds like your company took the hit to keep workers happy.
While I understand your view CardsFan, I can also see the other side.... why should government employees be deprived of income because a bunch of nincomepoops can't compromise and agree on a budget? The employees are standing ready, willing and able to serve and do the work... why should they bear the financial burden of a shutdown.

Put yourself in thier shoes. If you lost a week's pay due to no fault of your own would you think that is fair? Admittedly, paying them when they are not producing is hard to swallow but it seems to me that it is fairer to pay them than to not.

Besides, some would argue that it is better that they are not doing anything rather than creating red tape.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:32 PM   #32
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The 2013 furlough was a bit of a mess though. They didn't pay us, so we had to use up our leave, or go with leave without pay. Eventually, the government did get paid, but they were planning to screw us contractors over. Finally though, our company caved, and paid us back for all the leave we used, but it was several months later. I think this varied by company though; it's possible not everybody got reimbursed.
As an employee of a small-business government contractor, I did not get paid for the 2013 furlough, nor did any of my colleagues, because the project we were working on was deemed non-essential. This caused significant financial hardship for one of my employees who ended up losing his apartment. He was new to the workforce, new to the area, and had student loans, no savings, and no family support. It was a really bad situation all around and he ended up couch surfing with another coworker for several months until he could get his finances back in order.

Everyone who depends on the government for a paycheck or any benefit will suffer in varying degrees from a shutdown. I certainly hope Congress gets its act together very quickly this time.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:33 PM   #33
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I only worked for the federal govt for a few months one summer 35 yrs ago, but there was always talk about past shutdowns. "Everyone got paid, but it made for good theater", to quote one of the old hands. I di work for govt contractors for many yrs ,and yes it was different for the military vs the civilian employees, as others have stated. It depended on how each administration structured the shutdown each time. Sometime the active duty guys and gals did get paid.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:39 PM   #34
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Does anyone know anyone who missed a pay check from a govt shutdown? Has anyone ever seen any evidence that Wall st has ever been effected by a shutdown?
Yes, I lost two weeks pay last time. I don't recall what happened in the markets.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:39 PM   #35
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The Director of the OMB had a lot to say today about this possible shutdown and past shutdowns. There is a lot of money that is in reserve that was appropriated and has not been spent, but when directed to shut down for political posturing, it out right wrong.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:48 PM   #36
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While I understand your view CardsFan, I can also see the other side.... why should government employees be deprived of income because a bunch of nincomepoops can't compromise and agree on a budget? The employees are standing ready, willing and able to serve and do the work... why should they bear the financial burden of a shutdown.

Put yourself in thier shoes. If you lost a week's pay due to no fault of your own would you think that is fair? Admittedly, paying them when they are not producing is hard to swallow but it seems to me that it is fairer to pay them than to not.

Besides, some would argue that it is better that they are not doing anything rather than creating red tape.
Taking your points (bolded above, in order)
- Agree that the nincompoops ARE the problem
- If they will be paid any way, why not just have them all report to work? Having them all stay home is part of the political theater
- Can' t argue with that too much. But I guess that means they are "non-essential". In which case, why do we need them?
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:16 PM   #37
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I sympathize with anyone who gets caught in the crossfire. Seems like overall the financial collateral damage is minimal but it does exist. Using unspent money from a previous year to float activity seems controversial. I was always told if you don't spend it you lose it. Slush funds could be construed as fraud. Do govt departments & agencies have money sitting in interest bearing accounts?
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:34 PM   #38
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My sister works for the federal government and every time there is a government shutdown her offices closes. While the shutdown continues she does not get paid. Usually she will eventually get paid but it normally takes weeks/months.
Why would she get paid if the office was closed? I would think that if she didn't go in to the office she wouldn't get paid.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:39 PM   #39
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Besides, some would argue that it is better that they are not doing anything rather than creating red tape.
+1

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Old 01-19-2018, 06:45 PM   #40
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I don't get how DACA is part of the budget. DACA has until March 5th. The budget is now.
Sadly, the budget isn't now. It was Oct. 1. Thirteen appropriation bills, none of which were passed, all rolled into a continuing resolution and even that is almost four months overdue.
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