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Old 08-14-2021, 08:56 AM   #61
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I would think that your children owing you money would have a high potential to alter your relationship with them in a negative way.
I financed my daughterís mortgage saving her a boatload in closing costs. I only did so after she came up with 20%, had extra in the bank to cover maintenance cost, and after seeing her credit score. That was five years ago. I used to escrow for taxes and insurance but turned that over to her to do herself after the first couple of years. House has increased in value 100k since then.

In no way has this altered our relationship. And my daughter is secure in knowing she could work for any wage anywhere and always afford her $329 a month mortgage payment. This year Iím going to lower the interest rate on the loan from 3.5% to 2% which will save her an extra $65 a month.

The girl is 30 years old and could pay her mortgage off in full from her savings 5 times over. Being her lender was a low risk proposition for me and she would never skate out on a bill, much like me.

When her twin brother bought his first house there was no way Iíd ever consider being his lender and I know that might lead to potential relationship issues. I did help him with the down payment, with no expectations of repayment, just a bonafide gift.

So much depends on the nature and maturity of the adult child as to whether it might change the relationship.
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Old 08-14-2021, 09:30 AM   #62
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Cover their needs for security while they're young--prior to college graduation. After that rewrite your wills so your favorite charities are supported. Your kids will have the ability to stand on their own two feet if you did a good job raising them, and if they're healthy. We've re-written our will so our funeral costs & debts will be covered when we die, but the remainder doesn't go to the kids--it goes to things like the American Cancer Society, Minnesota Public Radio, and the like. We want our passing to bring good to many instead of only sending unearned income into the kids' hands. Perhaps if/when they have children we'll rewrite it again to cover college costs for grandkids. We've seen too many cases where inheritance funds going to offspring are quickly squandered, and the kids end up hurt by the money instead of using it to purchase a home, start a business, or squirrel it away for their own retirement. We can make a difference in the lives of many people by donating those funds to medical research and to ways of making the lives of many people better. Of course, we discussed this with our children prior to making those changes to the wills, so the kids don't think we're angry or punishing them in any way. It was easy news for them to accept, simply because we've always been that way with charitable donations; they weren't surprised or dismayed in any way. They'd expected it, and they've come to look up to us as examples of how people should treat their good fortune: share it with those in need, rather than hide it away within a family. No one needs more 1-percenters, but we all need great health care and medical research, and openness in news reporting about politics.
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Old 08-14-2021, 01:41 PM   #63
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My parents have gifted me money for down payment, but they would never co-sign for anything, which makes perfect sense. They justify it as advanced inheritance, rather me enjoy it while they are living.

Lending to or borrowing from family just seems super awkward.

What if you need to foreclose?
Yep, leant BIL a significant chunk of cash many years ago. Eventually, he stopped paying on it. What do we do? Un-invite him to Christmas and TG? Probably not. It was obvious that he felt we were "rich" and could afford it. We just never spoke of it. As I said, lending to friends or family ruins their memories. But I did learn my lesson though YMMV.
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Old 08-15-2021, 01:26 PM   #64
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It is better to give with a warm hand than a cold hand.
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:18 PM   #65
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Over the last 10 years, we've gifted the oldest (the winemaker) a used Subaru Outback and Legacy and recently sold the Silverado at 60% of value to them since they are thinking of a camping trailer to camp with the 2 year old and 4 year old. I suspect we'll cancel the Silverado agreement when we get taxes next year, which will be enough to pay off the RAV4 Prime we bought since DW didn't like driving the Silverado. They did sell their Versa and give us the money from the sale for the Outback; neither of us liked them driving from Cali Central Valley to Colorado in the winter in the Versa and they needed more room.

The youngest moved in with us last March when he was laid off in Seattle in Dec 2019, but he got a programming job almost immediately. We've got loads of room and he isn't sure whether he will stay with the job, so I told him buying wasn't the greatest idea particularly since Reno prices have shot up, spectatularly. We're in no hurry to kick him out; he pays for the booze, but we may ask him to pay 300-350$/month in fall since I figure that's about what he costs us. At some point early next year, I figure he will look for a rental. Or if we move, which is a possiblity, we may sell him the house at a discount with an agreement to use the downstairs bedroom (which he's now using) when we come back to Reno in winter/spring.

Once we shuffle off the mortal coil, I suspect they'll be getting some real money but right now, I figure we'll continue contributing to the grandkids' college funds every year and helping out. They both are financially independent which was the goal (the yewt could easily move out into a rental and he looks after the cats and the house while we are gone camping/hiking). It's quite possible the yewt will take a job in San Francisco next year, since he's had a few offers. We haven't spent what we have taken out the last 3 years and that is before SS.


I don't see anything particularly wrong with the OP's help or the other poster with the son who isn't working, with the proviso that one should not jeopardize their own safe retirement to help. I/DW refused to cosign a car loan for my sister&AgedP (but we were willing to give them a used car from DW's BIL and we contributed to the AgedP's support every month); every situation has it's own unique circumstances. It makes sense to me to try to do what you can, what makes sense, and what does not put you at risk while you are living. This intersects uneasily with long-term early FIRE, obviously, but I am thinking the later in FIRE we go the more we can do (particularly after taking SS).
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:30 PM   #66
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It is better to give with a warm hand than a cold hand.

That really sums up our philosophy too . Well said!
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Old 08-15-2021, 08:28 PM   #67
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That really sums up our philosophy too . Well said!
Same here.
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Old 08-15-2021, 11:05 PM   #68
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When my dad passed away, he left good sized 401k behind. He was blue collar but saved aggressively. I thought my mom would be set, but my sister has had significant health problems, is going though a divorce, and has four kids. She brings all her problems to my mom to solve by writing a check. My mom just canít say no. I really worry about my mom having enough money and also what my sister expects to do when my mom passes. I donít care if my sister takes all my moms assets but I hope she doesnít expect to start dipping into my pockets.
What happens to your mom when she has zero assets ? Can she afford on SS to pay the housing expenses and medical ?

As to the leech asking sister, just tell her NO when she asks you. Besides you may be supporting your poor Mom at that time.
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Old 08-16-2021, 06:33 AM   #69
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When my dad passed away, he left good sized 401k behind. He was blue collar but saved aggressively. I thought my mom would be set, but my sister has had significant health problems, is going though a divorce, and has four kids. She brings all her problems to my mom to solve by writing a check. My mom just canít say no. I really worry about my mom having enough money and also what my sister expects to do when my mom passes. I donít care if my sister takes all my moms assets but I hope she doesnít expect to start dipping into my pockets.
Your Mom or your sister? I was duped into giving my parents a large sum of money which I fortunately attached to their home so I would get it back eventually. This was to make their retirement easier.

They were able to pay off a loan in full they had on two rental properties so had that extra income to help them in retirement. Well apparently they werenít all that needy and decided to buy my brother (a lifelong criminal released from prison for the second time who was recently married to a woman he met on his prison work release bus) a house.

Boy did I feel duped. I no longer have a relationship with any of them.
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Old 08-16-2021, 06:55 PM   #70
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Thank you, Teacher Terry. My son has high functioning autism spectrum disorder and probably does not fall under vocational rehab. I will certainly look into it.


Thatís the situation with my daughter as well. To anyone who doesnít know her well she appears appears confident and capable but in reality she has many comorbidities which would make it difficult to hold a job. I am resigned to having to provide for her.
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Old 08-17-2021, 06:15 AM   #71
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.... Although all of these grandkids are in their 20s and 30s, they were very surprised that they were not receiving more from his estate.
Sad. The downside of financial coddling methinks.
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Old 08-17-2021, 06:23 AM   #72
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He does not have Asperger's. He was first classified as having communication and language development disability, before the days of when Autism Spectrum Disorder was coined.

To be specific, he has auditory processing disorder so he finds it difficult to process and retain what he hears.

His reading comprehension is very good and has high IQ, hence he successfully pursued 2 separate Bachelor degrees to improve his chances for employment. I had spoken to some of these agencies who told me that with his 2 Bachelor degrees, he would be deemed unsuitable for their assistance.
So it sounds like jobs and/or professions that rely more on written communication (via email, documents, etc.) rather than verbal communication would be his sweet spot?
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Old 08-17-2021, 06:28 AM   #73
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Never loan money to friends or relatives. It ruins their memories.
+1 if you can help it.... "Neither a borrower nor a lender be".

Though I did lend $3k to a friend about 20 years ago for him to get rid of his gold-digger, cheating wife in a divorce. He paid me back in full, earlier than expected. I continually remind him that it is the absolutely best $3k that he ever spent.
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Old 08-17-2021, 06:56 AM   #74
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+1 if you can help it.... "Neither a borrower nor a lender be".

Though I did lend $3k to a friend about 20 years ago for him to get rid of his gold-digger, cheating wife in a divorce. He paid me back in full, earlier than expected. I continually remind him that it is the absolutely best $3k that he ever spent.
Sounds like you were both good friends to each other. I generally do not recommend loaning money to friends/family. I have had several bad experiences.

But then again Iíve also had several like yours. Three of them were secured loans to qualified people who didnít need the help but the arrangement was good for them and good for me. Another I made clear that I didnít expect to ever be paid back because I didnít want it to damage the relationship. They paid me back in full which attests to their character in my mind although I would not have thought less of them had they not.

When I asked them why they insisted on repaying me they said, ďYou were a godsend to me when I was in need. I would never not pay you back or do anything to make you feel taken advantage of. And now I know you have my back. If in the future I ever need help again I know you would be there for me if you could be and I wanted you to know I would be worthy of your help.Ē And I believe him.

So it does work out sometimes but more often than not it doesnít.

You are a good friend.
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Old 08-17-2021, 07:29 AM   #75
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So it sounds like jobs and/or professions that rely more on written communication (via email, documents, etc.) rather than verbal communication would be his sweet spot?
Yes, if only he can find such positions and get hired. I asked him to look for jobs like online chat and such. Zilch to date. We did have him work for us for 5 years when he first graduated from university while we were running our business, until we sold. The new owners laid off a bunch of folks 6 months later and that included him. He has very strong work ethics and is generally a very good "kid". His strength is in Math and just completed his Accounting degree when the pandemic hit. He does not smoke, drink, gamble, do drugs etc. Sometimes I think of setting up an administrative type support business and have him work with me to create income for him. But then it sounds like work to me.
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Old 08-17-2021, 03:33 PM   #76
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Retired Happy, your son should check into the services offered by Vocational Rehabilitation.
Thatís a great comment. My daughter has a significant hearing loss and our States Dept of Rehab helped her with substantial funds and services to help her through Undergrad and Graduate school. They also would have helped with job placement, but she didnít need that help.
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Old 08-17-2021, 03:42 PM   #77
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Thatís a great comment. My daughter has a significant hearing loss and our States Dept of Rehab helped her with substantial funds and services to help her through Undergrad and Graduate school. They also would have helped with job placement, but she didnít need that help.
My son already has 2 Bachelor's degree and does not require vocational rehab per se. The biggest hurdle is for employers to be aware of his disability during interviews. He will certainly benefit from job placements but he does not accept help.
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Old 08-17-2021, 05:51 PM   #78
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He does not have Asperger's. He was first classified as having communication and language development disability, before the days of when Autism Spectrum Disorder was coined.

To be specific, he has auditory processing disorder so he finds it difficult to process and retain what he hears.

His reading comprehension is very good and has high IQ, hence he successfully pursued 2 separate Bachelor degrees to improve his chances for employment. I had spoken to some of these agencies who told me that with his 2 Bachelor degrees, he would be deemed unsuitable for their assistance.


My DS has the same disorder. Correctly diagnosed when a newly graduated speech and language teacher suggested the possibility.

They tried to sit him near the teacher in elementary school. But that was also near the noisy air conditioner which was a distraction. Everything was a difficult for him until 2 things-Sylvan learning program and music. Perfect pitch, amazing rhythm skills, very precise skills in his mind, yet words left him stumped. Marching band and indoor percussion competitions in high school and music performance in college gave him experiences of success. He sought and continued language therapy on his own in college when he still struggled socially. Two bachelors and a masters degree and still not working full time in his field at age 29.

People on this board have called me enabling and worse because he does not interview well. Yes, he doesnít interview well, but that is finally improving. Interviewing has little to do with actual work skills, at any rate.

Itís hard to explain the challenges with the disorder to those who donít live with it. I wish you and DS well as you navigate his career journey with him.
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Old 08-17-2021, 05:53 PM   #79
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BTW, Retired Happy, it sounds like our sons are one and the same. Weird.
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Old 08-17-2021, 07:09 PM   #80
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BTW, Retired Happy, it sounds like our sons are one and the same. Weird.
Yes, except I envy you that he is holding down a position, although not fully utilized for his skills.

I told him to get any job, as a job is better than no job. He should really be working in Accounting field and even though he had very good grades, he had not been successful getting a job in the field. This week he works at grocery store as a bagger and clean-up. It is going to be humbling for him but he knows he has to work. My heart aches for him.
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