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Old 02-16-2018, 10:07 AM   #21
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I have been going through the same thing with my aging parents, although they have the funds available.
They had made no plans for the later years and were hanging around in their house doing nothing for themselves being miserable. Just got them into a CCRC where they need to be.


That was the other thing I learned from my parents. They, too, were always behind the curve on their aging moves. First downsizing and then assisted living.

My wife and I have every intention to be a few years ahead of the curve on these decisions for ourselves.

Not withstanding John Lennon's quote... we are determined to make that happen...
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:15 AM   #22
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I have a 99 year old that thinks the world is supposed to take care of her. Especially my mother who is 96 and has numerous assets that she and my father built over a 60 year marriage. She is a retired teacher with a excellent pension and social security. She lives on the farm which is jointly owned by my sister, my mother, my sister and me. She has tried to shame my mother over the years to help more financilly. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, per my sister and I!

I have her financial POA. Over the last year we have sold part of the farm to help with the expenses and are subdividing the rest. I am moving part of her 403(B) account every year to cover the other expenses. I have put her name on a list in case we have to move her to a 24 hour care in a skilled nursing facility. Beds are available, but we are not ready to push that button.

We probably have her in a position to stay where she is at or in a facility for 3 to 5 more years. Then medicaid etc can help as she will have to go to a facility. The farm will have to go!

Just my two cents.

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Old 02-16-2018, 03:43 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by albireo13 View Post
They had made no plans for the later years and were hanging around in their house doing nothing for themselves being miserable. Just got them into a CCRC where they need to be.
When dealing with FIL a few years ago I was so grateful that my mom had arranged to live in CCRC when she was about 74. She'd been on a waiting list for six years. She was in independent living for 11 years and the last six months of her life she went to assisted living. It all worked out well for her.

FIL was an entirely different story. Like albireo13's parents he had made no plans and intended to live in his house "forever". Life had other plans and we were lucky to get him into CCRC, but he only spent one night in the independent living apartment, then a serious diabetic episode sent him to full nursing care for about the next eight months or so before he passed. For the last two years of his life his lack of planning made DW's "job" looking after him, sometimes nearly full time.

At the ages of 67 and 61 with no disabling conditions on the horizon yet we are on a waiting list for a CCRC. We applied immediately after FIL's passing about four years ago. If we never need assisted living or full nursing care, great. But it will be there if we do need it.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:05 PM   #24
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So sorry to hear that you are in such a difficult situation. There isn't a right or wrong decision, just a personal choice to be made.

It truly is amazing how fast cash reserves can be spent when dealing with senior care. And at their age, it is also nearly impossible to know what to do. Something could unfortunately happen to them tomorrow, or they may be around for another 5-10 years!

The stress of caring for elderly parents is more than enough, but the stress of personal finances on top of it is just too much. If I were in your shoes, I would see if your husband would be interested in working a part time job until his parents pass. Nothing crazy, perhaps something he has had an interest in for a long time. It would hopefully be a fun life experience under the belt, and if he made $15k-$20k working 15-20 hours a week, that would certainly help with the financial concerns over the next few years. This way he would still be able to care for his parents physically and financially, without worrying about your retirement savings going up in smoke!

Best of luck!
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:53 AM   #25
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I never could get my 97yo DF to make any plans for anything other than living at his home until the end. He always said he would never live in a nursing home. Ever. Almost got his wish. He had a stroke at home, was in the hospital a week before being transferred to a nursing home. Lasted all of a day and a half in the nursing home. I think he figured out where he was and decided he was going to keep his promise.

My DW and I plan on making other plans and will be looking at CCRC's down the road.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:02 PM   #26
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Also, be aware of state filial laws that require children to aid their aging parents, under certain circumstances. Currently, around 30 states have them.

I believe there have been other topics here over the years that have discussed this.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:48 PM   #27
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Dad was in assisted living. He died before the money ran out. However, if he had outlived his money, the arrangement with the assisted living home was that he could continue to live there provided all social security and any pension payments went to the home (less $600 annually). Yes, in that event, the home would receive considerably less than what we had been paying, but that was there policy. They were not a medicaid home.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:59 PM   #28
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It is almost impossible to be accepted at a CCRC in our area when you are frail, let alone needing convalescent care. The following doesn't help the OP but: the time to explore CCRCs is when you are able to live independently. Put your name on the list of 1 or more that you like and hope you don't get sick in the meantime.

When dealing with my father and my husband's mother the family frankly just laid down the 'law'. It was in their best interest and in my father's case mother obtained a court order that gave her control over his place of living. Mother-in-law had dementia so was in no condition to put up much of a fight - also she trusted her kids.

The OP may need to petition the court so that they can legally make decisions about the parents place of care.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:10 AM   #29
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I think Teacher Terry's post (#2 in the thread) is the one that I would go for.

As far as guilt. There is justified guilt and unjustified guilt. Justified guilt is when you act in a way that is not in accordance with your values. Many of us do have a value that we will help parents in their old age. But -- that isn't the only value.

You and your DH are unlikely to both die at the same time. So your DH might, for example, be willing to make himself a pauper for the sake of his parents. But, would it be in his values to leave you a pauper because he prioritized his parents over you? I would be surprised if that was in his values. And, I would be surprised if your values would be to leave your DH a pauper because you helped his parents.

There are many kinds of help. Financial is only one of them. Helping financially to some extent can be reasonable if able to be afforded. But, draining you financially and then they end up on Medicaid anyway, doesn't really make much difference.

I think the best way you can help them is to try to help them use their existing funds to find a nursing home for the two of them transitioning eventually to Medicaid. That may be a difficult task but is an important one that will not bankrupt you.

As far as having them move in with you. That can be an option for a time. I have offered to have my 93 year old mother move in with us. But, she is mentally all here and while she has health care needs she doesn't need 24 hour care. It sound like your husband's parents need more care than the two of you could provide at home.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gindie View Post
Also, be aware of state filial laws that require children to aid their aging parents, under certain circumstances. Currently, around 30 states have them.

I believe there have been other topics here over the years that have discussed this.
While it is true that there are such laws on the books in many states, they are mostly dormant... enforcement is extremely rare.

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Filial support laws were an outgrowth of the Elizabethan Poor Law of 1601.

At one time, as many as 45 U.S. states had statutes obligating an adult child to care for his or her parents. Some states repealed their filial support laws after Medicaid took a greater role in providing relief to elderly patients without means. Other states did not, and a large number of filial support laws remain dormant on the books.

Generally, the media has not covered filial responsibility laws much, and there has not been the political will to see that they are enforced. As of 2012, twenty-nine states have such laws on the books, and a few states require the potential support of grandparents or even siblings.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:17 PM   #31
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I know of an instance, all be it some years ago, where a son with a substantial income who tithed 15% to his church was required to 'contribute' to the care of his Mother when she applied for state assistance. The judge set the amount he must contribute equal to 15%. When he complained to me I told him 'charity begins at home'. No sympathy from me.
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:16 PM   #32
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Thank you all for your replies and understanding. My DH (a very loving, soft-hearted guy) says now that we won't sacrifice our retirement but I see how his parents 'guilt' him. "Family takes care of family". The only reason they have been able to afford their current living situation is because they sold their house. That money is quickly running out. Quite frankly, we never expected they'd survive this long. They both qualified for Hospice 3 years ago and have each had several life-threatening hospitalizations.

For the past 3 years my DH and I have been doing all we can to make their money last. They have told us that when they can no longer afford to live where they are, they are going to come live with us. That is their 'retirement plan'.
I don't know how I'll behave once my parents need help because I did grow up in the society in which children are kind of groomed or 'take care of your parents' thinking is instilled in the children from the very early age. If not, it's a huge stigma and what is worse for me is that I emigrated to the USA where "money grows on the trees". I think I've felt this guilt since I noticed that we're approaching the FI stage nicely and that maybe I could quit and become an Uber driver for our young children and do all the stuff that SAHM's do. However, I cannot shake off the guilt and continue working just because my parents (especially my spendthrift father) have hardly saved anything. Should anything happen to them (I hope not) I feel I'd be expected to help them financially 100% because I live in that 'golden cage USA' and I'm known to be quite frugal.

Reading your post it's really sad to see how selfishly your in-laws think. I think they don't even realize that their situation puts a big burden on your health and savings. This would make me really mad. But like I said I cannot image how I'll behave myself once I'm put in the same situation with my parents though I do HOPE it never occurs.

I really wish you mental and physical strength in this situation.
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:09 PM   #33
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They have told us that when they can no longer afford to live where they are, they are going to come live with us. That is their 'retirement plan'.
This is incredibly selfish of them. I'm very sorry for your situation. I'd probably look into meeting with an elder care lawyer about options to move them to a medicaid facility.
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:49 PM   #34
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No, I was not in that situation. My parents were very good to me, and did not fritter away money (except on me and my family) so it wasn't as if I had to deal with an irresponsible set.

BTW, you can't except a sick, frail couple in the 90s to see things from your perspective, so I wouldn't even bother arguing.

In your position, I would start looking for a nursing home near your home, where they can be together, would transition to Medicaid when the funds run out, and you and DH could continue to visit them on a daily basis as you are doing now. Since you would continue to visit them, you can skip the "guilt." It is not as if you intend to stop visiting them.

Good luck
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:26 PM   #35
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I think your husband needs to protect your retirement first. He didn't pledge till death do us part to his parents.
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