High Retirement Income Poll

[NW-Bound]

...I don't mean to diminish the difficulties that some folk face, but I really do believe that very often, the difference between having a horrible time, and a fun experience, lies in your attitude and demeanor...

That's the right attitude to have, but I hope I will not be tested. I am getting soft over the years.

I recall reading an interview with Jennifer Aniston. She had a tough time before achieving fame, and said she was careful with money because she did not want to be back there again. We know that many sports players and TV and movie stars are not so wise.

 

[meierlde]

Buffett does not own a private jet while other people with lesser net worth own several. I recall that John Travolta likes to be at the control wheel or stick, and owns a fleet. Paul Allen, cofounder of Microsoft, owned a 767, not a bitty Lear or Gulfstream. Every billionaire owns one.

Yet, Buffett just has some fractional jet ownership like NetJets. Warren is a true LBYM. He even said that not flying commercial airlines was the only indulgence he allowed himself. See him eating at a diner with Gates in an above photo.

Berkshire Hathaway owns NetJets.
According to this article NetJets sells shares of private jets:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetJets so that Buffet could be said to own a private jet without all the hassles. It appears one can book from 50 to 400 hours a year on a specific jet, and if that jet is unavailable one is provided a similar jet. It does appear if you need less than 50 hours a year you can buy a 25 hour package as well. (No specific plane involved). The big thing this would do for a company is to eliminate the need for an avaiation department, having pilots on staff, having a hangar, inspections etc. NetJets provides that service for a fee. Essentially for a corporate user it is essentially outsourcing aviation which IMHO makes a lot of sense.

 

[NW-Bound]

Thanks. I missed the fact that BRK owns NetJets.

As I detailed in earlier posts, fractional ownership of a jet is still very expensive. It may be as high as $150-200K for 25 hours worth of flight time, which may not be enough to get you a round trip from western USA to Europe.

If fractional ownership of a small jet is that expensive, one can guess what full ownership would be. And many billionaires do not own such a bitty jet, but a large airliner like Paul Allen's 767. The expense for such a private plane is staggering.

 

[NW-Bound]

I forgot to mention one of the many reasons billionaires want their own jets. It is so that they can customize the interior to their liking. I read a biography of Steve Jobs. It describes how Jobs was very picky and went over every little detail of the aircraft built for him. He demanded that one door handle be changed to a certain style that he liked.

And then, there may be fear of bedbugs if they share the aircraft bed with the public on NetJets.

 

[omni550]

I forgot to mention one of the many reasons billionaires want their own jets. It is so that they can customize the interior to their liking.

I worked for a mega-corp that owned several corp jets. I had occasion to be flown in them. Very pleasant and convenient. Once I was even the sole passenger in a gorgeous 15-seat jet (usually reserved for the founding family's use) -- complete with pilot, co-pilot, and hostess. It felt a bit odd to me, as I was headed to a plant, wearing my 'plant uniform' of black jeans and polo shirt. On arrival, the uniformed pilot carried my suitcase to the terminal. We must've looked quite the pair.

Mega-corp had a hard-charging CEO for a while who was born in the middle-east. He loved all sorts of lavish things...from bespoke suits and shoes to finger-bowls at lunches served in his office suite, etc. Rumor had it that he ordered a new corp jet, with a range to be able to fly to China from the midwest (of great importance, as that was where all the biz opps in our industry were at the time). He then started customizing the jet with marble everywhere, gold fixtures, etc....and supposedly even a fountain at the base of the circular staircase. When it was built, it was too heavy to fly to China without stopping to refuel somewhere.

omni

 

[NW-Bound]

CEOs lavishly spending company money is not good. It is abuse of power, but of course shareholders have no ways of curtailing it.

On the other hand, billionaires spending their own money have the right to do so. Spending their fortune is even good, due to the trickled-down economics.

 

[hesperus]

Yes, agree. Never discuss specifics about money with friends. Anonymity is what makes these type of sites so good.

Sounds like you might be more open to hearing about finances from "regular poppies" rather than the taller variety? Have never heard something like, "boy I'm sure getting tired about hearing about that guy and his extreme LBYM lifestyle" on this site.

I don't know, I think it's all a matter of perspective. One persons LBYM purchase may be another's conspicuous consumption.

ie "How do ya like my new Aston Martin One-77? I got into it for a bargain at $1M..."

This could conceivably fall under a LBYM lifestyle, or an example of braggadocia. Taken to extremes, either can be annoying.

 

[W2R]

Have never heard something like, "boy I'm sure getting tired about hearing about that guy and his extreme LBYM lifestyle" on this site.

Yeah, instead of posting that they are tired of hearing about how little someone spent, some people claim that the amount spent is "impossible" or due to "creative math", which I think are thinly disguised assertions that the person is lying. That's not very nice either.

But we all tend to be more sensitive about budgets we can identify with as similar to our own. Apparently if someone's budget is considerably smaller or larger than our own, sometimes people just do not believe it.

Personally I never get tired of hearing about EITHER. Hearing about someone's big budgets and purchases is great for inspiring pleasant daydreams about what one might do with a huge budget and for setting up goals of individual things or experiences one might want to have one day (even if one cannot afford everything one wants). And hearing about someone's tiny budget is great for inspiring one to cut back in some areas, so as to have more for the things one truly wants.

 

[Luck_Club]

CEOs lavishly spending company money is not good. It is abuse of power, but of course shareholders have no ways of curtailing it.

On the other hand, billionaires spending their own money have the right to do so. Spending their fortune is even good, due to the trickled-down economics.

Couldn't agree more.

It is my only non-free market bone to pick. Executives of publicly traded companies should have comp limits, but privately held can pay the executives un-limited funds for all I care. They should be maximizing gains for the share holders not themselves.

 

[omni550]

Personally I never get tired of hearing about EITHER. Hearing about someone's big budgets and purchases is great for inspiring pleasant daydreams about what one might do with a huge budget and for setting up goals of individual things or experiences one might want to have one day (even if one cannot afford everything one wants). And hearing about someone's tiny budget is great for inspiring one to cut back in some areas, so as to have more for the things one truly wants.

+1

It's always interesting to hear how others choose to spend/live.

omni

 

[Amethyst]

Very well put; matches my feelings.

It usually doesn't bother me at all when others have tons more $$ than we do (even though we qualify as moderately affluent). We don't want a boat, lengthy cruises, country club etc. The only time it bugs me is when I look at real estate. The places we'd truly want to live are really only for the high rollers. OK I admit it: I want to live in San Francisco!

Yeah, instead of posting that they are tired of hearing about how little someone spent, some people claim that the amount spent is "impossible" or due to "creative math", which I think are thinly disguised assertions that the person is lying. That's not very nice either.

But we all tend to be more sensitive about budgets we can identify with as similar to our own. Apparently if someone's budget is considerably smaller or larger than our own, sometimes people just do not believe it.

Personally I never get tired of hearing about EITHER. Hearing about someone's big budgets and purchases is great for inspiring pleasant daydreams about what one might do with a huge budget and for setting up goals of individual things or experiences one might want to have one day (even if one cannot afford everything one wants). And hearing about someone's tiny budget is great for inspiring one to cut back in some areas, so as to have more for the things one truly wants.

 

[W2R]

I lead a somewhat upscale lifestyle in some ways, but if I suddenly found myself with a fraction of my net worth, what would I do? Moan, and cry and sit around in a blue funk? Maybe for a while. But then you get on with it, and I'm sure I could find ways to enjoy life on a more limited budget. There would be no more good seats at the Symphony and fancy meals and nice hotel week-ends, and while I enjoy those, there are other ways to have fun.

You really do "get it"! Some of us who don't buy good seats at the Symphony, fancy meals, or hotel week-ends of any kind (nice or not), are perfectly happy.

Instead of physically going to the symphony, one can listen to the best of performances at home right in one's living room and even pause it as desired to go to the rest room or get a snack.

Fancy meals don't necessarily have any better food than moderately priced meals, but instead sometimes seem to focus on posh surroundings and obsequious wait staff, all of which can be boring at times.

And you can probably guess that I'm not personally all that interested in hotel weekends when I can sleep happily here at home in my own bed.

But, a $39.95 video game that I bought back in 2012 has provided me with almost 3,000 hours of delight and fun. It's all in knowing what you like, and looking for less expensive ways to have fun. Actually the search for cheap fun can be fun in itself.

 

[MichaelB]

Yeah, instead of posting that they are tired of hearing about how little someone spent, some people claim that the amount spent is "impossible" or due to "creative math", which I think are thinly disguised assertions that the person is lying. That's not very nice either.

But we all tend to be more sensitive about budgets we can identify with as similar to our own. Apparently if someone's budget is considerably smaller or larger than our own, sometimes people just do not believe it.

Personally I never get tired of hearing about EITHER. Hearing about someone's big budgets and purchases is great for inspiring pleasant daydreams about what one might do with a huge budget and for setting up goals of individual things or experiences one might want to have one day (even if one cannot afford everything one wants). And hearing about someone's tiny budget is great for inspiring one to cut back in some areas, so as to have more for the things one truly wants.

I get that, and agree. I find the bragging part boring - how much stuff we have or how little we spend - but not the part about the things people do to adjust, and how they allocate their budgets, and especially the things they do that lead to real satisfaction and enjoyment.

 

[W2R]

Very well put; matches my feelings.

It usually doesn't bother me at all when others have tons more $$ than we do (even though we qualify as moderately affluent). We don't want a boat, lengthy cruises, country club etc. The only time it bugs me is when I look at real estate. The places we'd truly want to live are really only for the high rollers. OK I admit it: I want to live in San Francisco!

I lived in SF and Berkeley from 1968-1973, and although the place sort of sucks one in with its own unique attributes, after a while some negative aspects do seem to appear as well. Every place has its plusses and minuses. Although I enjoyed the experience, I would not want to live there again, even if the housing was free.

Sometimes I wish I could afford to move back to Hawaii, but F wouldn't be happy there at all. New Orleans is OK and we are both happy here, for now.

 

[kcowan]

And there are a few of us 'tall poppies' here who will never miss an opportunity to share that fact I always find it interesting to see how open we all are here about our HNW, under the cover of anonymity. This is something that I never discuss with actual friends. Very private about it.

There is at least one tall poppy here who left a financial site because he was attacked for being rich. So it even happens anonymously. He made the mistake of identifying how he made his money.

I agree that in real life, it is best to keep things private. I know my Dad would have been devastated to learn how much I was making. My first job out of university was 50% higher than his lifetime high salary, and my final salary was 50x higher. That was 15 years ago. I did not keep it from him for anything other than sensitivity to everything he had accomplished in life. e.g. he taught me how to change the oil and the brake pads. I changed my own oil until disposition became an issue.

The nice thing about retirement in Mexico is that people of all strata can afford to live here and most do not talk about it. We are judged by who we are not what we were! If anyone tells us how important they were, we usually avoid them socially. There are exceptions of course.

 

[RobbieB]

I still change my own oil. Not because it's cheaper (cheaper at one of those $19.95 places) but because it's easy and fast and I can do it at my leisure. Have ramps, drive car up ramps, set brake and done in 10 minutes.

 

[ERD50]

Yeah, instead of posting that they are tired of hearing about how little someone spent, some people claim that the amount spent is "impossible" or due to "creative math", which I think are thinly disguised assertions that the person is lying. That's not very nice either. ....

Yes, but there have been some cases of that, that I can recall.

It goes something like

LBYM-er: "Oh, I only spend $x annually".

Forum: "But what about that new roof, or new furnace"

LBYM-er: "Oh, that comes out of my emergency fund".

Forum: "It's still 'money/spend', and 'emergencies' like that pop up pretty regularly - we call them 'ongoing maintenance'. You have to budget for them".

And then they may go on about a separate 'car replacement budget' or something, that's not part of what they 'spend' each year.

There are other examples of what I'll call creative accounting, where people just seem to not want to face the 'money is fungible' view.

-ERD50

 

[Danmar]

Personally I never get tired of hearing about EITHER. Hearing about someone's big budgets and purchases is great for inspiring pleasant daydreams about what one might do with a huge budget and for setting up goals of individual things or experiences one might want to have one day (even if one cannot afford everything one wants). And hearing about someone's tiny budget is great for inspiring one to cut back in some areas, so as to have more for the things one truly wants.

This is a good attitude to have. I do recall, however, you challenging me on my lifestyle once. After my response you were gracious about it. It takes all kinds and being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes is a rare talent to possess.

 

[W2R]

This is a good attitude to have. I do recall, however, you challenging me on my lifestyle once. After my response you were gracious about it. It takes all kinds and being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes is a rare talent to possess.

I had forgotten that exchange and I apologize if I seemed overly critical. Maybe I just didn't understand what you were saying at the time.

 

[hesperus]

I find that there's sometimes a fine line between conveying one's financial situation and being pretentious, with either LBYM or conspicuous spending. Again, it may depend on one's perspective.

 

[kcowan]

Thanks. I missed the fact that BRK owns NetJets.

I thought so because your response to my post on the subject made no sense for you, a normally logical person, so I cut you some slack.

I thought everyone knew about Warren's follies! I follow the guy closely. Did you hear that Bezos has overtaken him as of Thursday close?

 

[W2R]

Yes, but there have been some cases of that, that I can recall.

It goes something like

LBYM-er: "Oh, I only spend $x annually".

Forum: "But what about that new roof, or new furnace"

LBYM-er: "Oh, that comes out of my emergency fund".

Forum: "It's still 'money/spend', and 'emergencies' like that pop up pretty regularly - we call them 'ongoing maintenance'. You have to budget for them".

Hmm. I think your disconnect might be due to thinking in terms of budget instead of thinking in terms of what was actually spent the previous year.

But does thinking of what was actually spent, give any useful information? I think it does, perhaps much more useful than pie-in-the-sky budget information. Here's an example. I just got a new furnace and AC system last year. It cost a total of $7200. It will last about 20 years, which comes to $360/year. In the long run, $360/year would not be a very big impact to anyone's budget. But more importantly, since I spent more on the HVAC, I started feeling kind of poor and as a result I unintentionally cut back in other areas to replenish the costs. Actually (in reality), I ended up spending less last year than other years even though the HVAC was included, along with extensive dental work. So, overall it made no impact.

And then they may go on about a separate 'car replacement budget' or something, that's not part of what they 'spend' each year.

Ah! There's an assumption hidden in there, I do believe. What if the person isn't going to need another car ever again? To take an example from my own life, I only drive 3600 miles/year (averaged over the past 7 years), and I have a Toyota. If I drive my Toyota a total of 250,000 miles before needing a replacement, I can drive it until I am 131 years old. The oldest person to ever live, lived to 122 years old according to Wikipedia, but maybe I'd be the first to live to 132. I guess if I need a new car when I am 132, I'll dredge up this thread and apologize. Which is not to say that I won't buy a new car before then, but just that saying that I am "spending" on something I may never decide to get is not the brightest choice IMO.

Overall, I think that if one's spending is reasonably flexible, one can take care of maintenance and replacement costs as they arise without impacting annual spending to any significant extent at all by simply cutting back a little. There is no reason to imply that anyone is lying unless one gently inquires first, and makes at least some attempt to visualize a different sort of spending pattern than one's own.

 

[kcowan]

I find that there's sometimes a fine line between conveying one's financial situation and being pretentious, with either LBYM or conspicuous spending. Again, it may depend on one's perspective.

So where is a guy to go to brag about the great deal he got on a BMW M6?

 

[hesperus]

So where is a guy to go to brag about the great deal he got on a BMW M6?

Right here! Lay it out brother...
now, what scale is that model?

 

[Major Tom]

Not to take this thread off on a tangent. Oh, OK - I might as well be honest about it. I'm attempting to take the thread off on a tangent

I was just reading Amethyst's comments about wanting to live in SF, and W2R's reply. I lived in Los Angeles for 20 years and absolutely loved it, though at the same time being very aware that some folk hated the place or at the very least, were indifferent to it. To me, it was paradise on earth. Then I moved to the SF Bay Area. No-one seemed to have anything bad to say about San Francisco; everyone loved it. When I got there, I was surprised to find that although I quite liked it, it really didn't "do it" for me - it didn't hit me in the gut. I'd say that while I quite liked SF, I had been completely in love with LA. Now I'm across the bay in Oakland, and I like it a lot better than SF. I'm not head over heels in love the way I was about Los Angeles, but that was a very heady love affair indeed.

Anyway, here's where I'm heading with this. I know this all sounds a bit existential but, although when talking about places, we'll find concrete factual arguments to support our like or dislike, I wonder if a big factor in deciding how we feel about a place, is how well our life is working out when we're there? If your life is firing on all cylinders, and you're having great experiences with memorable people, then you're going to associate all of that with the place that you're in.

I'm not as impressionable as I used to be and, sadly, it's harder for me to fall unequivocally in love with people, places and things. I do still manage to fall for kitties though