High Retirement Income Poll

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Thanks. I missed the fact that BRK owns NetJets.

I thought so because your response to my post on the subject made no sense for you, a normally logical person, so I cut you some slack.

I thought everyone knew about Warren's follies! I follow the guy closely. Did you hear that Bezos has overtaken him as of Thursday close?

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Yes, but there have been some cases of that, that I can recall. It goes something like LBYM-er: "Oh, I only spend $x annually". Forum: "But what about that new roof, or new furnace" LBYM-er: "Oh, that comes out of my emergency fund". Forum: "It's still 'money/spend', and 'emergencies' like that pop up pretty regularly - we call them 'ongoing maintenance'. You have to budget for them".

Hmm. I think your disconnect might be due to thinking in terms of budget instead of thinking in terms of what was actually spent the previous year.

But does thinking of what was actually spent, give any useful information? I think it does, perhaps much more useful than pie-in-the-sky budget information. Here's an example. I just got a new furnace and AC system last year. It cost a total of $7200. It will last about 20 years, which comes to $360/year. In the long run, $360/year would not be a very big impact to anyone's budget. But more importantly, since I spent more on the HVAC, I started feeling kind of poor and as a result I unintentionally cut back in other areas to replenish the costs. Actually (in reality), I ended up spending less last year than other years even though the HVAC was included, along with extensive dental work. So, overall it made no impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 And then they may go on about a separate 'car replacement budget' or something, that's not part of what they 'spend' each year.

Ah! There's an assumption hidden in there, I do believe. What if the person isn't going to need another car ever again? To take an example from my own life, I only drive 3600 miles/year (averaged over the past 7 years), and I have a Toyota. If I drive my Toyota a total of 250,000 miles before needing a replacement, I can drive it until I am 131 years old. The oldest person to ever live, lived to 122 years old according to Wikipedia, but maybe I'd be the first to live to 132. I guess if I need a new car when I am 132, I'll dredge up this thread and apologize. Which is not to say that I won't buy a new car before then, but just that saying that I am "spending" on something I may never decide to get is not the brightest choice IMO.

Overall, I think that if one's spending is reasonably flexible, one can take care of maintenance and replacement costs as they arise without impacting annual spending to any significant extent at all by simply cutting back a little. There is no reason to imply that anyone is lying unless one gently inquires first, and makes at least some attempt to visualize a different sort of spending pattern than one's own.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesperus I find that there's sometimes a fine line between conveying one's financial situation and being pretentious, with either LBYM or conspicuous spending. Again, it may depend on one's perspective.

So where is a guy to go to brag about the great deal he got on a BMW M6?

[hesperus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcowan So where is a guy to go to brag about the great deal he got on a BMW M6?

Right here! Lay it out brother...
now, what scale is that model?

[Major Tom]

Not to take this thread off on a tangent. Oh, OK - I might as well be honest about it. I'm attempting to take the thread off on a tangent

I was just reading Amethyst's comments about wanting to live in SF, and W2R's reply. I lived in Los Angeles for 20 years and absolutely loved it, though at the same time being very aware that some folk hated the place or at the very least, were indifferent to it. To me, it was paradise on earth. Then I moved to the SF Bay Area. No-one seemed to have anything bad to say about San Francisco; everyone loved it. When I got there, I was surprised to find that although I quite liked it, it really didn't "do it" for me - it didn't hit me in the gut. I'd say that while I quite liked SF, I had been completely in love with LA. Now I'm across the bay in Oakland, and I like it a lot better than SF. I'm not head over heels in love the way I was about Los Angeles, but that was a very heady love affair indeed.

Anyway, here's where I'm heading with this. I know this all sounds a bit existential but, although when talking about places, we'll find concrete factual arguments to support our like or dislike, I wonder if a big factor in deciding how we feel about a place, is how well our life is working out when we're there? If your life is firing on all cylinders, and you're having great experiences with memorable people, then you're going to associate all of that with the place that you're in.

I'm not as impressionable as I used to be and, sadly, it's harder for me to fall unequivocally in love with people, places and things. I do still manage to fall for kitties though

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesperus I find that there's sometimes a fine line between conveying one's financial situation and being pretentious, with either LBYM or conspicuous spending. Again, it may depend on one's perspective.

Agree. I often find it difficult to participate in financial discussions without appearing to be "bragging" or appearing smug or pretentious. Try my best not to.

[Fedup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB I still change my own oil. Not because it's cheaper (cheaper at one of those $19.95 places) but because it's easy and fast and I can do it at my leisure. Have ramps, drive car up ramps, set brake and done in 10 minutes.

My husband still changes oil on all our cars because he says he uses the best oil. At least he still can do it and has the satisfaction from doing it. He taught me to change brakes one time, but I never latched on to it.

[hesperus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar Agree. I often find it difficult to participate in financial discussions without appearing to be "bragging" or appearing smug or pretentious. Try my best not to.

I can understand that.

[RobbieB]

I post here about Wagyu beef and white truffles because they were new to me and I want to try all sorts of new things in my new adventure of retired life. It was exciting to try these things that I never had before and the flavor was simply wonderful. They brought me great joy that I wanted to share.

But I now see that I'm just a bragger spendthrift with no sensitivity to others frugal budgets so I won't anymore.

[Fedup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB I post here about Wagyu beef and white truffles because they were new to me and I want to try all sorts of new things in my new adventure of retired life. It was exciting to try these things that I never had before and the flavor was simply wonderful. They brought me great joy that I wanted to share. But I now see that I'm just a bragger spendthrift with no sensitivity to others frugal budgets so I won't anymore.

I did learn from your food taste and purchased the real balsamic vinegar in Italy. Small bottle to try out. I'm a spendthrift myself, we need to stick together here.

[Moemg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Hmm. I think your disconnect might be due to thinking in terms of budget instead of thinking in terms of what was actually spent the previous year. But does thinking of what was actually spent, give any useful information? I think it does, perhaps much more useful than pie-in-the-sky budget information. Here's an example. I just got a new furnace and AC system last year. It cost a total of $7200. It will last about 20 years, which comes to $360/year. In the long run, $360/year would not be a very big impact to anyone's budget. But more importantly, since I spent more on the HVAC, I started feeling kind of poor and as a result I unintentionally cut back in other areas to replenish the costs. Actually (in reality), I ended up spending less last year than other years even though the HVAC was included, along with extensive dental work. So, overall it made no impact. .

Here is what I do not understand . Did you subtract the $7200 from your yearly budget or the $360 ? I just purchased a new AC system including all new duct work for $9000 so my budget took a $9000 hit immediately .

[Nature Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Personally I never get tired of hearing about EITHER. Hearing about someone's big budgets and purchases is great for inspiring pleasant daydreams about what one might do with a huge budget and for setting up goals of individual things or experiences one might want to have one day (even if one cannot afford everything one wants). And hearing about someone's tiny budget is great for inspiring one to cut back in some areas, so as to have more for the things one truly wants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB I get that, and agree. I find the bragging part boring... but not the part about the things people do to adjust, and how they allocate their budgets, and especially the things they do that lead to real satisfaction and enjoyment.

+1 to both of these comments. While having the largest ...or the smallest spend is of little interest to me, hearing about the variety of interests and approaches to a successful, happy ER is one of the reasons I like this group.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst Very well put; matches my feelings. It usually doesn't bother me at all when others have tons more $$ than we do (even though we qualify as moderately affluent). We don't want a boat, lengthy cruises, country club etc. The only time it bugs me is when I look at real estate. The places we'd truly want to live are really only for the high rollers. OK I admit it: I want to live in San Francisco!

There are some places in the Bay Area where if you buy out in the suburbs and are interested in a townhouse or condo the prices are somewhat affordable. There is a good public transportation system to get into and around the city. It is a fun place to be retired - lots to do and nice weather most of the year. And once you have housing covered other expenses are often not more than any other major city.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB I still change my own oil. Not because it's cheaper (cheaper at one of those $19.95 places) but because it's easy and fast and I can do it at my leisure. Have ramps, drive car up ramps, set brake and done in 10 minutes.

When I stopped doing my own oil, there were no depositories for the used oil. That came later. By then I was addicted to the drive thru service.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moemg Here is what I do not understand . Did you subtract the $7200 from your yearly budget or the $360 ? I just purchased a new AC system including all new duct work for $9000 so my budget took a $9000 hit immediately .

I included the $7,200 spending for that HVAC in my SPENDING total for 2016, because I spent it. I wrote a check, the money is gone, it's spent, I'll never see it again. So I couldn't feel right about doing anything else but adding the entire $7,200 to what I had spent, KWIM?

Believe me, I sympathize. It was quite a blow to see my spending going up $7,200 in one day. If I had kept spending the same amounts as always, it would have stayed $7,200 higher than most years.

So how did I get my spending back down to about where it had been the previous year? I cut back on other spending enough in 2016 to completely pay the $7,200. Luckily my spending is pretty flexible. I try to keep it that way, in preparation for the huge market crash that many of us feel might be on the way sometime in the future.

I don't have a budget. Never have, never will. What I like to do instead, is to keep very close track of what I am spending every single day, project what it may be at the end of the year, and just cut back as needed to reach my spending goals by the end of the year. I make sure that I am very aware of my spending; then I know what I need to do.

[Amethyst]

I think we all have our own ways of looking at things. As long as someone is spending less than they take in, it's LBYM to me.

Case in point: When discussing income, the income amount that we report to the IRS and State seems somehow "fake" to me. I think of our true income as being what's left over after taxes are paid. Same with net worth. I automatically deduct 1/3 of the amount on the screen, because that's about what I'd have to pay if I sell investments. I know not everybody (maybe not many) look at it this way, but that's how my brain works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Yes, but there have been some cases of that, that I can recall. It goes something like LBYM-er: "Oh, I only spend $x annually". Forum: "But what about that new roof, or new furnace" LBYM-er: "Oh, that comes out of my emergency fund". Forum: "It's still 'money/spend', and 'emergencies' like that pop up pretty regularly - we call them 'ongoing maintenance'. You have to budget for them". And then they may go on about a separate 'car replacement budget' or something, that's not part of what they 'spend' each year. There are other examples of what I'll call creative accounting, where people just seem to not want to face the 'money is fungible' view. -ERD50

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound ...I missed the fact that BRK owns NetJets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcowan I thought so because your response to my post on the subject made no sense for you, a normally logical person, so I cut you some slack. I thought everyone knew about Warren's follies! I follow the guy closely. Did you hear that Bezos has overtaken him as of Thursday close?

I do not follow anybody closely. Occasionally, I see a headline on the Web that looks interesting, and read the article to get more. And that's how I learn these tidbits about celebrities. About Buffett, I pay more attention, because I like to know what he is buying and selling.

And yes, I saw the headline about Bezos moving up several ranks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB I post here about Wagyu beef and white truffles because they were new to me and I want to try all sorts of new things in my new adventure of retired life. It was exciting to try these things that I never had before and the flavor was simply wonderful. They brought me great joy that I wanted to share. But I now see that I'm just a bragger spendthrift with no sensitivity to others frugal budgets so I won't anymore.

No, Robbie, don't stop. I for one like to follow your food "adventure".

Don't worry about others thinking that you are showing off. To be frank, unless you brag about eating $100K worth of food each year, it is not showing off. It simply shows your preference for spending money. People choose to spend more money than the average consumer on different things. I spend money on travel, gift, and donations and other stuff. In the past 5 years, I have spent more on these discretionary categories together than what a top-of-the-line Tesla costs (won't say how much more ). I do not care for cars, but I do not think people who talk about buying a Tesla as showing off.

PS. Maybe you do eat more than $100K of food a year. Come on, Robbie, come clean.

PPS. Maybe I did read about BRK owning NetJets. I prefer to think that I did not. To think that I read and forget means my "superior memory" is slipping. Can't admit something like that.

[Moemg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R I included the $7,200 spending for that HVAC in my SPENDING total for 2016, because I spent it. I wrote a check, the money is gone, it's spent, I'll never see it again. So I couldn't feel right about doing anything else but adding the entire $7,200 to what I had spent, KWIM? .

That makes sense . I have a budget but with a lot of padding so those home maintenance things do not really bother me . Believe me I know about crashes my stash took an almost 40% hit in the last one but the good news is having survived that I know I can handle another .

[Moemg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB I post here about Wagyu beef and white truffles because they were new to me and I want to try all sorts of new things in my new adventure of retired life. It was exciting to try these things that I never had before and the flavor was simply wonderful. They brought me great joy that I wanted to share. But I now see that I'm just a bragger spendthrift with no sensitivity to others frugal budgets so I won't anymore.

Don't stop ! I enjoy your culinary treats .

[kcowan]

We love living in Puerto Vallarta for 6 months because of the people. They are from all over, mostly Canada/US but we have neighbors from France, Italy, Australia, even the UK.

They stay for between 4 and 12 months. When we return to Vancouver, we find that the people are not experiencing life like we are and so have little in common.

I think it is something about people that choose Mexico in spite of all the bad press. Maybe a bit more adventurous? So I understand the draw of the LA bowl versus SF. We have friends from LA and points south in PV. Not as many from SF area. Of course some are native Mexican-American. Our best friends from SF are originally from Nicaragua and Canada before becoming American.

But there is no doubt that the cosmopolitan nature of the mix is attractive. One set of good friends in Canada are from Dallas originally. But they don't travel for long periods because of their cats.