Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-21-2021, 04:16 PM   #101
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,054
We have a paid-up-in 10 years policy that is no longer offered. Husband had both of his knees replaced in the same surgery several years ago, our insurance sent a PT to our home for a couple of weeks. I notified our long-term care insurer, they counted all those days against his elimination period.

Bottom line: any time you need home care (not from a family member) submit the paperwork to nibble away at your elimination period. Be sure to work with the discharge planner if you are in the hospital to arrange for a caregiver and have your insurer's paperwork in hand to check off those ADLs (activities of daily living) so that filing goes smoothly.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-21-2021, 04:20 PM   #102
Recycles dryer sheets
Jeb-NY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lost State of Franklin
Posts: 393
Self insured, primarily after seeing my Mother fight the system for years. Both parents paid into a plan for over 30 years. I don't know what it started at but toward the end it was around $4k for the two of them. Only my Dad's policy paid out anything. He had a couple of short stays in nursing homes for rehab after strokes. My Mother took care of him at home for over 20 years no matter how much we tried to get her to use the insurance towards the end when he was really bad. When she tried to get them to pay for some part time home care they said it had to be a licensed care giver even though for help she needed was being taken care of by a friend for a fraction of what she would pay over what they would cover. She finally dug out the original contracts and read them parts that said nothing about licensed. It took awhile but they started paying and gave her a large check for some of what they cheated her out of. She was then able to give a raise to the woman that had been helping her.

We just put more into our retirement savings and hoped we would not have any early problems. We made it and will have no problem paying our way if we need it and if we don't more for our son to inherit and worry about spending.
Jeb-NY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 04:42 PM   #103
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredHappy View Post
The reimbursement rate is the daily or monthly amount payable per the bought policy. It goes back to my point that even policy holders have no clue how expensive LTC can be. The facilities can balance bill the patients for the shortfall. However, many people cannot afford to pay the balance.


This is exactly why our facilities often didnít take LTCI patients unless the insurance reimbursement rate was decent.
Scuba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 05:51 PM   #104
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 941
Not us.
meleana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 05:58 PM   #105
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 56
One of my aunts had a LTC policy she paid in over 30 years and premiums kept adjusting each year as she got older. When she needed it, she only lived for less than a year and there was no inheritance balance to pass on to heirs. My brother and I calculated she paid lower $120K range for less than $30K in payout. She had a nice nestegg so she could have paid OOP and had invested the premium. Thing a social worker told me was most folks who need acute nursing home care are at end of life stage and rarely need more than 2 years care. Most "check out" in less than 6 months but YMMV.
NoEZmoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 06:58 PM   #106
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 293
My wife and I have had Genworth for almost 10 years.
We have a good policy with a COLA that they were selling then. We will be 70 and 72 in a few months and are paying about $4800 for the 2 of us.

The rates have gone up the last couple years. From what I have seen I guess our premium is still reasonable.
JJpop is offline   Reply With Quote
Forced LTC insurance
Old 09-21-2021, 07:26 PM   #107
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Marysville
Posts: 52
Forced LTC insurance

Here in Washington state, they are forcing people to get LTC insurance, it is taken out of people's paychecks, unless you buy it elsewhere and there is a time limit for that. I don't know all the details, but I am retired and I don't get any paychecks. I hope it won't be taken from my pension, it's not a lot but I don't want it. Nobody has notified me from the company pension office, that's a good sign.



I read somewhere that the people working on the dementia problem figure if they can push the average onset out by five years, they can prevent a third of the cases. I guess that would give you time to die of something else instead?



Anyway, I am gambling that any time I spend in a nursing home will be offset by the money I saved by not buying the insurance, and investing that money instead. You know the insurance companies have the odds in their favor for not having to pay out. And the state-run insurance, since when have they been able to do anything efficiently.
JohnRM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 07:30 PM   #108
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 966
I always believed that LTC insurance is not cost effective because (1) If you died suddenly, the money you paid into the system may be wasted. (2) the benefits have a cap in paying out. For example a $1400 premiums a year May have a payout cap of $160K. Nursing care cost $10K a month so the coverage is only good for about 16 months or so. (3) the premiums may increase as you get older. (4) there are numerous restrictions in the policy and I heard from many other people that they regretted getting the policy.

There are other alternatives: (1) Married someone 20 years younger (I actually did this…but my original motivation was not LTC). (2) Move to a low COL area such as Mexico or Thailand where health cost is 1/3 of US. I personally cannot afford $10K a month but I can afford $3.3K a month. This can avoid buying LTC insurance. (3) some churches have a community home to care for disabled church members and the cost is much lower than private nursing homes because they are non-profit. (4) Get an unemployed or retired relative to agree to become a care taker but you should provide a financial incentive. (5) hire a live-in nurse. The cost can vary depending on the level of care needed. You allow them to live in an extra bedroom or an in-law unit which can reduce the cost. I am in the process of constructing an separate in-law unit on my property with its own separate bathroom and kitchen. This gives me the option of hiring a live-in maid, a live-in care taker for LTC or rent the unit for income.
2177V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 07:36 PM   #109
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 10,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba View Post
This is exactly why our facilities often didnít take LTCI patients unless the insurance reimbursement rate was decent.
I'm not certain I understand. My mom's LTCi payments went to her (to me, in reality as I was her POA). I paid her NH bills. Her LTCi payments were insufficient to cover her monthly NH bills so I had to add from her assets. The NH wasn't aware of where the payments were coming from. YMMV
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 08:32 PM   #110
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 293
My brother passed almost 2 years ago. He was single and collected about 350,000 in payments for his at home live in care from Genworth.
I would guess he paid less than 30,000 in premiums before his benefits kicked in.
JJpop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 08:35 PM   #111
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolau View Post
I'm not certain I understand. My mom's LTCi payments went to her (to me, in reality as I was her POA). I paid her NH bills. Her LTCi payments were insufficient to cover her monthly NH bills so I had to add from her assets. The NH wasn't aware of where the payments were coming from. YMMV
+1
RetiredHappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 08:39 PM   #112
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,056
My annual premium is $1.1K and currently pays $513K lifetime, increasing at 3% per year. I have paid $14K todate over 12 years. The math is that if I need to use LTCI, the benefits are far more than what have been paid in.
RetiredHappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 08:48 PM   #113
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredHappy View Post
My annual premium is $1.1K and currently pays $513K lifetime, increasing at 3% per year. I have paid $14K todate over 12 years. The math is that if I need to use LTCI, the benefits are far more than what have been paid in.
That sounds too good to be true.
Be ready for a huge increase.
JJpop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 09:03 PM   #114
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJpop View Post
That sounds too good to be true.
Be ready for a huge increase.
We shall see. It is Genworth AARP group policy.
RetiredHappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 09:25 PM   #115
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by vchan2177 View Post
I always believed that LTC insurance is not cost effective because
(1) If you died suddenly, the money you paid into the system may be wasted.
(3) the premiums may increase as you get older.
Hybrid LTC/whole Life solves those two problems.

With the whole Life Insurance feature of hybrids, if you never use (or don't use all) the LTC benefits, your heirs get a multiple of your single premium as death benefit life insurance. Hence the premium you paid is "not" wasted" (if one looks at insurance premiums that way---like I do for LTC)

With single premium pay (or 10 or 20 year pay), cost is locked, premium can never increase, nor contracted coverage decrease.
__________________
Dreams Worth Dreaming are Dreams Worth Planning For. I Spent a Career Planning for Early Retirement.
RetireeRobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 09:31 PM   #116
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireeRobert View Post
Hybrid LTC/whole Life solves those two problems.

With the whole Life Insurance feature of hybrids, if you never use (or don't use all)the LTC benefits, your heirs get a multiple of your single premium as death benefit life insurance. Hence the premium you paid is "not" wasted" (if one looks at insurance premiums that way---like I do for LTC)

With single premium pay (or 10 or 20 year pay), cost is locked, premium can never increase, nor contracted coverage decrease.
+1
RetiredHappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 09:49 PM   #117
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 10,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJpop View Post
That sounds too good to be true.
Be ready for a huge increase.
Once again, I'll point out that any increases must be approved by the appropriate regulating agency. Not to say it doesn't happen - our premiums were raised. But the point is that companies can't simply decide they aren't making enough money and then raise rates. Someone is looking over their shoulder - if that gives any additional confidence in the fairness of increases.

My understanding from my research when our rates were raised: Insurance companies are good at predicting how much of their products will be used. This is true for death benefits and for users of LTC. Where the LTCi companies missed the mark was in "guessing" how many folks would pay in for several years and then drop out. Turns out folks held onto their policies in excess of predictions. I would like to think that those purchasing recently would not face huge increases as the LTCi companies now know what to expect. Of course, YMMV.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 01:11 AM   #118
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolau View Post
I'm not certain I understand. My mom's LTCi payments went to her (to me, in reality as I was her POA). I paid her NH bills. Her LTCi payments were insufficient to cover her monthly NH bills so I had to add from her assets. The NH wasn't aware of where the payments were coming from. YMMV


Many donít have enough assets to add enough such that the nursing home can make enough money to care for the patient. If the insurance company has a low reimbursement rate and the patient canít supplement it sufficiently, the NH may not take them. So LTCI can be helpful as a partial solution for those who canít or prefer not to self-insure, but likely most people will have to at least partly self-insure to get good quality care.
Scuba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 05:28 AM   #119
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
street's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 6,939
All insurances are a gamble in my opinion. I think of health insurance and I haven't hardly used it at all in my life time, but yes I have it. I could be money ahead if I never had the insurance and paid out of pocket. I also wouldn't have gambled on that.

I would say, other then health insurance as out of pocket insured, that nursing home expenses with be the second highest expense a person can have if they have to ever go into a nursing home.
My parents each spent 5 years in a facility and the LTCI was huge for them.
street is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 06:20 AM   #120
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Southeast
Posts: 129
We have a policy through Mutual of Omaha. It is good coverage and not too expensive (about $1500/year for my husband and $2000/year for me. We got it when we were 59. I think the key is to get it when you are still healthy. My Mom had dementia so I had to go through a mental test. We really debated self insuring but decided that LTC was worth it, barely. If we need it, it will pay out very well for several years. I hope, like with any insurance, that we will never need it.
KarenF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lump sum life insurance with LTC insurance rider tmm99 Health and Early Retirement 1 07-22-2013 02:17 PM
Anybody Here Own LTC (Long Term Care) FinanceDude Life after FIRE 109 07-11-2011 10:22 AM
Long-term care (LTC) and LTC insurance (Updated 2020) Nords Early Retirement FAQs 0 10-24-2007 11:02 AM
How Many Homes Do You Own That You Live In? pasttense Life after FIRE 20 07-07-2007 09:13 AM
Things own you; you don't own things - know what is want and a need dex Young Dreamers 21 10-26-2005 12:40 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:05 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.