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Old 08-11-2021, 06:40 PM   #41
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Apparently Mom and Dad are providing more then a bare bones living, because most 25 year olds spend money.
How does he buy weed? That’s not cheap.
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Old 08-11-2021, 07:13 PM   #42
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With full respect, you might be asking the wrong question. By my calculations, you can spend about $166,000 per year (combined for the three of you) until you and your wife both die (actuarially speaking). At that point, your son will need to fend for himself. He will be 60 years old and presumably ready to launch himself into the world. There will be no SS for him. So the best plan might be to give him his share of the $166k now to invest to support his life after you and your wife pass. That would give him a stake in his future, be non-threatening due to the distant adverse news, allow unfettered computer game skill development, and otherwise be a clear set of guidelines.
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Old 08-11-2021, 07:38 PM   #43
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Yes, flexibility may be helpful. I am thinking to start low at $100,000 per year, which is actually tighter than what we would like to spend.

My son is not interested in investing at this time. But I hope he will learn when he is really matured.
Also with respect, this is what stood out.

Your money to support yourselves is fine. But you cannot control his behavior once it becomes his money. And without him having an interest to preserve that money, all of your planning for him will be wasted.

There are many stories of children blowing large 7 figure inheritances in a few years. Not just their spending. But once others find out they have money (do not assume he will keep it "secret", people like to brag), and realize they are naive/not protective of it... they will get a whole new set of "friends", even "lovers", who are there for the purpose of spending "other peoples money".

One of our sons friends received around a $500K inheritance from a deceased parent, no strings attached. It took about 3 years for them to run through that. Even our son, who was not good with money himself at the time, tried to tell his friend to slow down and think about saving some of it. But he was in the minority of voices the friend heard.

This is just one example, I have direct and indirect (through family, friends, and co-workers) knowledge of at least a dozen similar cases over the years, with greater amounts in play.

In truth, as you choose to go this route, I would spend less time analyzing what you can spend, as you will be fine - and more time trying to educate/guide your son on the proper management of money and not just rely on "hope".
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Old 08-11-2021, 08:30 PM   #44
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Anyone with a computer science degree could (and should) be raking in the dough right now.
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Old 08-12-2021, 09:47 AM   #45
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I did not say that my son will never work or make any money.

I am just planning for the worst case, similar to many of you here planning for a 50% drop in the market some day.
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Old 08-12-2021, 09:57 AM   #46
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I did not say that my son will never work or make any money.

I am just planning for the worst case, similar to many of you here planning for a 50% drop in the market some day.

Well you know a kid that decides never to work is not a worst case scenario, it's one you are inflicting on yourself. I suggest you do you and let your boy do him.



It's in no way comparable to a 50% market drop which doesn't have a chance in heck of happening.
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Old 08-12-2021, 10:42 AM   #47
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[QUOTE=pb4uski;2647263]+1 It is hard to describe the positive psychological benefits of working and having a job and having your own money....


+1000

I still vividly recall the time I first moved out of the nest and purchased a condo (never pay rent). I remember going to My fridge, making a ham sandwich with My food, and sitting down at My table in My home. It was the most amazing feeling of independence I’ve ever known…. Huge psychological benefit.
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Old 08-12-2021, 10:56 AM   #48
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Firecalc is not liberal or conservative. It's just historical record.

I'd say $200k for you and spouses life.
Good sequence of return and son can keep the 200k withdraw. Bad sequence he'll have to live on $50k a year.
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Old 08-12-2021, 12:17 PM   #49
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I am not interested in comments about if we should take care of him. We decided to take care of him no matter what.
I had to chuckle when I read this flyingaway! The chance of folks being able to keep the conversation relating only to the numbers and not on the subjective/gossipy subject of how to raise and relate to a child is generally zero here.
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Old 08-12-2021, 12:19 PM   #50
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I had to chuckle when I read this flyingaway! The chance of folks being able to keep the conversation relating only to the numbers and not on the subjective/gossipy subject of how to raise and relate to a child is generally zero here.
When it comes to retirement this is a pretty important subject...but it's like mentioning something and telling someone "don't think about that" it never works.


It's not subjective that the OP will need a much bigger nest egg, if it's for 3 people for 70 years.
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Old 08-12-2021, 12:24 PM   #51
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So instead of modelling for you + spouse spending, up it to cover a 3rd person, and you should be fine.

Or carve out a chunk of your nw now, consider that a separate bucket and earmark that for your son, enough to cover a reasonable expense amount for an adult for the next 70 years. With your NW, even if you considered a $1m slice off for your Son, that still leaves you with more than enough to support spending above $100k.

FWIW, at 25 I was still a bit of a twit. I was working full-time, but financially a bit of a train wreck and made several bad decisions over the next few years after that age. But by 32 or so I got my act together, and ER'd at 47.
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Old 08-12-2021, 12:48 PM   #52
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It's not subjective that the OP will need a much bigger nest egg, if it's for 3 people for 70 years.
No doubt. But advise given regarding the parenting of the son inside of the parent-child relationship is subjective. Simply accepting that the way OP described the situation is the way it's going to be and working with those numbers would be objective. And there is plenty of variability there to analyze and comment on without the anecdotal (and likely irrelevant) examples of how the family relationship would be handled if they were doing it.

But we're all human and, of course, it's lotsa fun to ignore OP's request and inject our feelings about the parent-child relationship and score it based on our own viewpoints.
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Old 08-12-2021, 12:50 PM   #53
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I posted in another thread that we intend to support my son for the rest of his life because he has high functioning autism. There is similarity in OP's situation and ours in terms of how to ensure the child get a good inheritance after the parents are gone. My son lives in his own fully paid off home. I paid for that home and it is in his name.

For starters, we bucketize our money. I have 2 fixed term deferred income annuities using my IRA money. The later start date one goes to him as primary beneficiary which will continue to pay after my death. The earlier start date one has my husband as primary and my son as contingent beneficiary.

All my taxable investments will not be used to fund our retirement and my son is the sole beneficiary. My husband has a small taxable account which is also not used to fund our retirement. It will first go to me and then me to him.

My husband's IRA account goes to me and on my passing, to my son.

Our home should net around a million dollars and it will also become my son's inheritance.

I am very comfortable with all these buckets, knowing which will be spent and which will become my son's money. My son has no idea how much he will get as I have been pushing him to get a job, any job, so that he gets some socialization and a job is good for his self esteem. I told him that he will get some inheritance from me but it won't be enough to last his lifetime and hence he needs to work. In reality if he doesn't work, he will be fine financially.
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Old 08-12-2021, 01:17 PM   #54
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OP, does your kid have a medical or psychological condition? If the answer is "no," then he really ought to be moving out of the house. Sounds like he has a lack of discipline and/or initiative. Military can take care of that, if he qualifies.
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Old 08-12-2021, 01:18 PM   #55
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I told him that he will get some inheritance from me but it won't be enough to last his lifetime and hence he needs to work. In reality if he doesn't work, he will be financially fine.
We have an intellectually disabled son. He grows very very slow intellectually. Thankfully he is fully functional physically. He loves cars and may not ever be able to drive on road (unless autonomous cars become norm when he grows up). He is an excellent driver off road with ATV, UTV, Electric Scooter, Bicycle, you name it! But we still tell him the same thing: You have to work and earn money if you want to buy your own car. We would make sure that he finds a job as soon as he is able because it is good for his well being. Everything we do with him has an end goal of enabling him to live independently. YMMV.

PS: Like I said, we are planning for a perpetual retirement for us and my son but he doesn't need to know that.
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Old 08-12-2021, 01:36 PM   #56
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OP, does your kid have a medical or psychological condition? If the answer is "no," then he really ought to be moving out of the house. Sounds like he has a lack of discipline and/or initiative. Military can take care of that, if he qualifies.
The military is building their cyber security and cyber black Ops capability right now! Recall the recent ransom ware attacks. I’d take him and go talk to a recruiter.
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Old 08-12-2021, 01:40 PM   #57
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The military is building their cyber security and cyber black Ops capability right now! Recall the recent ransom ware attacks. I’d take him and go talk to a recruiter.

Military life is hard enough for people who want to serve...


They can't take all the unmotivated kids hanging around in Mom and Dad's basement.
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Old 08-12-2021, 01:50 PM   #58
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They can't take all the unmotivated kids hanging around in Mom and Dad's basement.
USMC drill instructor with a Smokey the Bear hat and a BIG voice might be just what the basement dweller needs!
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Old 08-12-2021, 01:58 PM   #59
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I did not say that my son will never work or make any money.

I am just planning for the worst case, similar to many of you here planning for a 50% drop in the market some day.
The worst case might be that he never works or makes any money, AND blows through what you leave him in a few short years. So you'd need to figure out how much you can spend now, and set up some kind of trust for him to dole out the money over time. You are the only one here who knows your son, but it seems like you shouldn't ignore the second part.
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Old 08-12-2021, 05:05 PM   #60
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the conversation should go something like this....."Dude, WTF....I'm tired of working....you got about 6 months to get it figured out...cause we're retiring". PROBLEM SOLVED!!
That's basically the approach I took with my daughter, though phrased in a little less threatening way. I reminded her we were retiring in a few years and we couldn't estimate our future expenses as long as she was still living at home. We needed a year or two of living on our own like grownups to see what mom and dad would spend by ourselves. She kind of rolled her eyes and blew it off as Dad nagging her again, but I could tell it registered with her.

It wasn't so much that my daughter didn't want to move out, she's just a creature of habit. She has a hard time changing anything about her daily routine, even if she knows it would benefit her.

In the end, I went apartment shopping myself and when I found one I thought she could afford I took her to see it. We lucked out the landlord was willing to give her a chance and worked with us. Everything has been smooth sailing since then. I'm proud of her.
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