How much risk do I really need to take?

timwalsh300

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
131
For some background, I introduced myself yesterday with this post: http://www.early-retirement.org/for...-officer-cautiously-planning-ahead-47227.html

This question, of risk taking, is the first thing I wanted to discuss. I bring it up because I am young (23) and the conventional wisdom is that I should be very aggressive with my savings: heavily investing in growth opportunities and buying on every dip.

I mentioned that I'm risk-averse. It may actually be a product of my age, ironically enough. Already, during my lifetime, there have been no less than four legendary market crashes: 1987 (Black Monday), 1990 (Nikkei), 2000 (Dot Com), and 2008. I've been watching what this does to people. As a result, I think I've grown up valuing peace-of-mind over prospects of spectacular wealth. My fiancee is of the same opinion.

That said, I understand all the arguments for long-term equity investing and I have been giving it a try until just recently. I started a Roth IRA in early 2008 and have contributed the max of $14,000 thus far. Today the account balance sits at $11,222, having cashed out last week in anticipation of another big correction. This experience taught me that I'm even more risk-averse than I thought. I found myself constantly checking Google Finance, reading business and economic news, screening for different stocks and funds, and wanting to tweak my portfolio. It's been a good education but I'm afraid that this is no way to live the rest of my life.

I've begun to think that maybe it's just not necessary in my case. I estimate that I'll earn a little less than $2 million (in 2009 $, "regular military compensation") over the next 20 years, plus whatever my soon-to-be-wife earns. After that I'll be eligible for military retirement benefits. It appears that we could retire before age 45 to a modest yet comfortable lifestyle by saving ~25% of our income over the next 20 years, even if our savings grows merely at the pace of inflation. That could give us at least $500,000 in the bank along with my pension of ~$45,000 per year (both in 2009 $) - enough to make early retirement an option without losing sleep at night over fears of seeing our savings wiped out.

I'm curious to hear what you all think of this as a plan. Am I making any serious miscalculations? Has anyone else gone down this road and regretted giving up the chance for more capital gains and a more lavish lifestyle? Or does anyone wish that they had done this themselves?

Tim
 
I am very risk averse as well, so I really understand your point of view. To keep your savings growing at the rate of inflation, you may have to invest some in the market despite its volatility. Certainly bank account and money market interest rates do not seem to be keeping up with inflation recently.

I really like the TSP G Fund, though. It cannot decrease in value, and usually increases by at least the rate of inflation. You might want to look into that fund.
 
To keep your savings growing at the rate of inflation, you may have to invest some in the market despite its volatility. Certainly bank account and money market interest rates do not seem to be keeping up with inflation recently.

Some volatility is certainly acceptable. I don't mean to say that I would hold hundreds of thousands of dollars in FDIC-insured accounts. Maybe some money in CD's, but probably most in funds that hold Treasuries, investment-grade corporate bonds, GNMA securities, etc.

I wouldn't lose sleep over a potential 10% or 15% dip in NAV. I'm only worried about the 30%, 50%, 80% losses (which I've been conditioned to expect) and the possibility that we are in a secular bear market similar to what the Japanese have experienced for the last 20 years.

Tim
 
Ahh, yes, conventional wisdom... Be careful with that stuff - it can be dangerous...
With your mil benefits as DINKs -- a very conservative approach is all you really need --
Besides making promotions, surviving deployments, carefully choosing assignments/mentors etc. is much more important -- If you moved anywhere near as much as I did, your DW is going to be finding alot of new jobs and starting over alot. There's also all that biological clock stuff -- transitioning to SI w/ TK or multi-kids is going to take some extra planning efforts... Our first was born before I finished training, the second 1st assignment and the third after my 1st overseas assignment. Soo, they've always been in my ER plans. I didn't seriously start planning until after Major. Conventional wisdom would have told me ER was unrealistic. I delayed until 25yrs for a number of reasons (life happens), but 22/3 would definitely have been very doable even with SI-3K and NO remarkable stock portfolio performance and very conservative ratios...
 
Tim:

Some thoughts to keep in mind while making your plans:

1. No matter how much you and your fiancee like it now, there is no guarantee that you will stay in the Army for 20 years. People change, and the military changes. Repeated deployments to combat zones can wear down even the most dedicated of soldiers. You also will likely have children, which will bring large and probably unanticipated changes in your plans. If you have children and want to pay for their educations, you can rest assured that college tuition inflation will run ahead of general inflation.

2. There is no guarantee that the military retirement system will stay as it is now. i.e. -- that check you are expecting at 45 may not start arriving until you are 65.

3. Official inflation statistics are grossly misleading because they use hedonic regression and eliminate food and fuel. The only inflation that counts is the inflation for things you will buy. Here is one of the many threads on the topic http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/is-the-cpi-rigged-30740.html

4. Any fund invested in treasuries now is very likely to suffer a capital loss, as the Federal Reserve will be forced to raise interest rates (I think by the end of 2010) to compensate for the massive liquidity injection Here is an excellent thread discussing possible Fed action and inflation http://www.early-retirement.org/for...t-the-coming-inflation-if-it-comes-46683.html

5. Your views about what will constitute an adequate retirement income will likely change between now and then. When I was 23, I put up with many things that I wouldn't tolerate now.



If I could start again at 23, I would choose a balanced fund like VWINX, OAKBX, DODBX or one of the Vanguard Target Retirement funds as my principal investment vehicle, with side bets into a REIT fund like VGSIX and maybe a commodity fund
 
Read Solin's "best investment book.." for some reassurance.

Also, there's nothing wrong with using a pre-retirement type of allocation when you're young, and just keep it balanced over the years. As long as you're 40-50% in equities you'll probably be OK. Or maybe a target date fund and just forget it's there.
 
For the truly risk averse, there is the 100% TIPS allocation a la Zvi Bodie. He apparently wrote a book about it, but has some videos online as well.
Boston University School of Management

Just be prepared to save 50 times your annual expenses in retirement instead of 25 times.
 
Gumby -- makes some valid points. There is definitely a difference between true FIRE and an ER dependent on gov't largess. Especially, with an ever expanding largess -- IT ain't gonna be pretty if/when that bubble breaks... I guess all you can do is hold on to your tickets and ride the gravy train until it jumps the tracks... And see if you can't get some cushioning to survive the crash... I realize the current public appreciation of the military is riding fairly high, but I've seen sunshine & I've seen rain... lonely times when I could not find a friend, BUT... So consider vet treatment after Civil War, WW-I, Vietnam, even free health care for life promises. A gov't promise is only as good as the latest bill and NOT all changes will be good. I don't see any real guarantees. But then again, IT could all end after 20/12/2012 when the mysterious worldwide calamity is schedule to arrive.
 
For the truly risk averse, there is the 100% TIPS allocation a la Zvi Bodie. He apparently wrote a book about it, but has some videos online as well.
Boston University School of Management

Just be prepared to save 50 times your annual expenses in retirement instead of 25 times.

You forgot about working into your late 70s. :(
 
I would have thought that anyone entering the military was not averse to risk (of your life for your country) but obviously there are different views of risk for different areas of your life :)
 
I am risk adverse as well. However it takes a different form.
The risk I am adverse to is running out of money, or needing to go back to work;)
There are a number of 'safer' investment vehicles out there. Just keep a close eye on inflation and be prepared to deal with it over time.
 
Sell to your sleeping point. If the amout of risk is keeping you up at night, then you need to take on less risk.
 
Tim, you are being wise to carefully consider your risk tolerance. More exposure than you can tolerate can do worse things than messing up your sleep -- it can get you selling equities low and buying them back high. You are a long way from retirement, and unless you're deliberately trying to time the market (which you almost certainly should not be trying to do), you should not be selling based on what the market is doing.

I would consider carefully Want2Retire's suggestion for the TSP G Fund. Although I'm not in that system, I have a good hunk of my assets in a fund with TIAA that provides only modest returns but guarantees principal. That helps me sleep well.

I do think your logic is sound. You anticipate a decent pension, and I don't believe the U.S. will seriously go back on that promise. I think you can, and should, trade performance to reduce your risk.

Coach
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies. I'll address a few points now...

1. Call me a fool, but I'm already signed on for 10 years; even more if I exercise certain options in my contract. How many people get through 10+ years but opt out before 20? I don't know.

2. The possibility of the pension going away is a real concern, however remote it may be. That would be the equivalent of losing maybe $2 million in lifetime income. I think that regardless of our investment strategy we'd have to continue working until "normal" retirement age if this happened.

3. I'm aware of the inflation and interest rate risk, and I agree that interest rates can only move in one direction from here - upward, eventually. I understand that the return on bonds over the last 20 years has been sweetened by falling interest rates, and I wouldn't anticipate getting such a high return over the next 20 years. But part of my apprehension regarding stocks is that I just don't see much upside for them either. Looking at Robert Shiller's data, I'm afraid the market still has some ways to go in correcting for the late 1990's bubble. Frankly, I don't know what looks like a good deal right now. I guess that's why having a balanced portfolio probably is best...

4. On being "risk-averse" and in the military... In some ways it is dangerous and unpredictable. But in other ways it offers much more safety, predictability, and stability than civilian life to make up for that. I couldn't even begin to sit here and draw up a financial plan for the rest of my life (as silly as that sounds) if I were a civilian.

Tim
 
You should read Spend Till the End by Larry Kotlikoff and Scott Burns. They show that you should be very conservative at your stage of life since you have just started to save and can't afford to lose it. It goes against most conventional thought, but is well researched and reasoned.
 
Understanding your own risk tolerance is one of the most important aspects of successful investing. So don't let anyone else tell you how much risk you should be comfortable with.

But having said that. You might want to put this supposed "risk" in context. You currently have ~11,000 saved. You hope to have $500,000 in 20 years.

Right now you probably feel like a 30% drop in your savings ($3,300) would be a very big deal. But once you hit the $500,000 mark, you can expect to have a similarly large ($3,300) swing every couple of days or weeks. That will be true even if you are invested 100% in treasury bonds. Viewed in the context of where you will eventually be, today's volatility is really quite small. And yet the pay off potential for putting money at risk over a period of 20 years or more is quite large.
 
You might want to put this supposed "risk" in context. You currently have ~11,000 saved. You hope to have $500,000 in 20 years.

Right now you probably feel like a 30% drop in your savings ($3,300) would be a very big deal. But once you hit the $500,000 mark, you can expect to have a similarly large ($3,300) swing every couple of days or weeks. That will be true even if you are invested 100% in treasury bonds. Viewed in the context of where you will eventually be, today's volatility is really quite small. And yet the pay off potential for putting money at risk over a period of 20 years or more is quite large.

I should make it clear that we're already talking about more than just $11,000... that is only my Roth IRA. We are sitting on another ~$90,000 in financial assets right now (mostly cash) for which we need to develop a strategy.

In any case, I think I see your point that taking a "big" percentage loss today is not as bad as taking an equally big percentage loss 20 years from now, when we'll have much more principal at risk.

Tim
 
1. Call me a fool, but I'm already signed on for 10 years; even more if I exercise certain options in my contract. How many people get through 10+ years but opt out before 20? I don't know.
In 25yrs, I never met anyone who retired from the military and really retired. But at my very first assignment, my boss threw out 12yrs and took a very good job locally. He had stayed too long and his time on station put him on top of every involuntary assignment list they had. He decided to take the hit for the family. Stuff happens, I didn't understand at the time -- it was a gutsy call to say the least. I've seen folks RIF'ed with more than 10 yrs and several prior enlisted twice pass overs for promotion to major put out. Granted the numbers are rather small, but you have a long way to go at this point.
 
Interesting thread. I'd add three comments:
1 As others have said, I'm not sure you can expect military benefits to remain unchanged over the course of your life. I am not in favor of reducing them for our men and women who serve, but with our deficits/debt and fewer workers for each retiree, something has to give.
2 Kids
3 It's important that you understand your risk tolerance, and admirable at your age. But it's sad that you mention only the downside and not the upside. I have been investing for over 30 years and while the losses were painful, the gains more than made up for it. I would not be FI today without equity holdings. Whether history will repeat itself in the years ahead I'd something we all have to grapple with, I hope you'll keep at least 20% in stocks to test your real tolerance. You're not going to become an aggresive investor, and I'm not suggesting you should be, but you may find you have some risk tolerance after all. The past few years have shaken most investors, you're not alone.
 
I should make it clear that we're already talking about more than just $11,000... that is only my Roth IRA. We are sitting on another ~$90,000 in financial assets right now (mostly cash) for which we need to develop a strategy.

In any case, I think I see your point that taking a "big" percentage loss today is not as bad as taking an equally big percentage loss 20 years from now, when we'll have much more principal at risk.

Tim

Great start! Over $100k at 23........pretty nice. I was much more aggressive at a young age and even though I knew I had time to recover from a major correction, it was not easy to sit there and do nothing. As a result, I'm heavily medicated today.
img_873619_0_0ff25d720d269205de68fc80b5a9b3e4.gif


I would suggest a balanced approach even at your age. Much easier to stomach. Good luck!
 
Welcome to the board, Tim.

You don't have an earnings problem, and you don't have a savings problem. But perhaps you should start thinking about asset allocation before your analysis results in more paralysis.

I would have thought that anyone entering the military was not averse to risk (of your life for your country) but obviously there are different views of risk for different areas of your life :)
Joining the military adds a number of uncontrollable risks to your environment, and the only way to control the total risk is to minimize the personal number of risks you're taking. So the military spends a lot more time on risk management than most professions.

When any of us (civilian or military) cross the street we all risk being hit by a bus. But when a military member cross the street in a combat zone they risk being shot at. Civilians don't have to cross streets in combat zones but military don't have much of a choice, and veterans tend to adopt a slightly more conservative approach to street-crossing. However we all eventually have to cross a street somewhere.

Unfortunately the risk-management techniques learned in combat zones can also lead to a tendency to try to avoid or control risks that really aren't very amenable to either. Outside of a combat zone, those risks can be deemed acceptable through hedging.

I mentioned that I'm risk-averse. It may actually be a product of my age, ironically enough. Already, during my lifetime, there have been no less than four legendary market crashes: 1987 (Black Monday), 1990 (Nikkei), 2000 (Dot Com), and 2008. I've been watching what this does to people. As a result, I think I've grown up valuing peace-of-mind over prospects of spectacular wealth. My fiancee is of the same opinion.
As you've pointed out, bad stuff happens.

But are we really all so egocentric as to think that our generations have the worst investing climates? For my age group I'd add in the zero-returns decades (1966-1982), runaway inflation of the 1970s and early 1980s, and the 1973-4 oil crisis. Older folks would add in the Korean War's influence on the market, WWII, and the Great Depression.

Seems kinda parochial to claim that earlier generations had all the good investment returns and that there won't be any good returns for the rest of us. "Reversion to the mean" works both ways. Maybe instead of claiming that we'll be "paying back" the great returns of the 1990s for a few more decades, maybe the 90s were a "reward" for all the bad years before then. Maybe in a few more years we'll be seeing another set of great returns to make up for the last decade. Do you really want to have a 100% cash asset allocation for the next decade?

You're perfectly willing to believe that you could lose 30%, 50%, or even 80% of your money. If that's what you truly believe then you should invest in MREs and gold bullion-- and maybe a Bobcat excavator to bury them. What about the huge returns of the last six months, let alone the cumulative returns of the next six decades? What about the 65% chance that the market will go higher over the next 30 years?

The point you're making is that the longer you stay in the stock markets, the more bad things could happen to you. You're right. But you're also ignoring the good things that could occur the longer you stay in the market, and in the history of humanity more good things have happened than bad. You also can't see the bad results of NOT being in the markets, so you're not worrying about them. You should be worrying about them.

I agree that WWII allowed the U.S. a (hopefully) unique opportunity to "take advantage" of 25 years of competition-free environments while the rest of the word had to focus on staying alive. I agree that it's difficult, maybe impossible, to predict future returns from history. But you could consider that corporations tend to grow their profits at about the rate of GDP, and to generally keep up with or even exceed inflation. Even the pessimistic Gordon equation predicts 4-6% returns for the next few decades.

That said, I understand all the arguments for long-term equity investing and I have been giving it a try until just recently. I started a Roth IRA in early 2008 and have contributed the max of $14,000 thus far. Today the account balance sits at $11,222, having cashed out last week in anticipation of another big correction. This experience taught me that I'm even more risk-averse than I thought. I found myself constantly checking Google Finance, reading business and economic news, screening for different stocks and funds, and wanting to tweak my portfolio. It's been a good education but I'm afraid that this is no way to live the rest of my life.
I'm not going to try to change your mind about this one, but I'll point out that successfully predicting a string of short-term corrections is a game you will begin losing all too soon. You're focused on a "big correction" during the same week that Buffett went "all in" to make the biggest acquisition of his life eight-decade lifespan. Why would you focus on the bad things when he's focusing on the good things? Which one of you has the lifetime experience to make credible predictions? If you're so good at predicting the corrections, shouldn't you be equally good at predicting the big upward moves as well?

Making the wrong prediction (or making it too early) will cost you far more in missed opportunities (while you pay far more in short-term taxes) than it could ever cost you in market losses. But again you can see the market losses better than you can see the missed opportunities, so it's easy to focus on the bad things while overlooking the good.

Conventional wisdom says that, for those of us who aren't Buffett, we should avoid predicting the short-term moves and focus on the long term. We should avoid dodging every single risk that's out there and just avoid the risks that we can personally control while hedging the uncontrollable ones. In your case, you could avoid hyperactive asset management and overtaxation by finding an asset allocation you can live with. Bernstein's "Four Pillars" book is very good at tailoring allocations to risk tolerance so that you can sleep at night, knowing that some good things are happening along with all of the bad stuff.

If you're going to worry then you might as well worry constructively. The noisemakers you're listening to now make their income by encouraging you to react to the short term instead of planning for the long term. Lay off the short-term deadline journalism, the stock screeners, and the Chicken-Little media for a while. Read Bernstein's latest books on the history of trade and the birth of plenty. Read Dimson & Marsh's "Triumph of the Optimists" and Milevsky's "Are You A Stock or A Bond?". Read about asset allocation in Bob Clyatt's "Work Less, Live More" and "The Boglehead's Guide". The more you learn about asset allocation, the sooner you'll adopt a more balanced perspective to market behavior.

I've begun to think that maybe it's just not necessary in my case. I estimate that I'll earn a little less than $2 million (in 2009 $, "regular military compensation") over the next 20 years, plus whatever my soon-to-be-wife earns. After that I'll be eligible for military retirement benefits. It appears that we could retire before age 45 to a modest yet comfortable lifestyle by saving ~25% of our income over the next 20 years, even if our savings grows merely at the pace of inflation. That could give us at least $500,000 in the bank along with my pension of ~$45,000 per year (both in 2009 $) - enough to make early retirement an option without losing sleep at night over fears of seeing our savings wiped out.
With bonuses, higher allowances, promotions, and pay raises your number is actually more like $2.5-$3 million. Unlike most of this board's ERs, if you retire on a military pension in your low 40s you can look forward to at least four decades of inflation protection and cheap healthcare. In other words you've already hedged away the two most devastating risks to any retiree. Maybe it's better to focus on those achievements and not be overly concerned about black swans & meteor strikes.

You're right about the income and the savings.

If you don't need to take the market risks then why torture yourself?

Well, here's a few things to consider:

I'm curious to hear what you all think of this as a plan. Am I making any serious miscalculations? Has anyone else gone down this road and regretted giving up the chance for more capital gains and a more lavish lifestyle? Or does anyone wish that they had done this themselves?
Thanks to everyone for the replies. I'll address a few points now...
1. Call me a fool, but I'm already signed on for 10 years; even more if I exercise certain options in my contract. How many people get through 10+ years but opt out before 20? I don't know.
Speaking of risk and staying in the markets for a long time, what about the risk of having a really really bad tour sometime during your 20-year career? As any of the dozens of military veterans on this board will tell you, it's not a risk-- it's a near certainty. In addition, your priorities will change over the next 20 years as you age and mature. You eventually will find significant conflicts between the way you want to live your life and the way you're being asked to live it.

When (not if) that situation occurs, it would be nice to have choices. The choice to have a parent stay home and take care of the kid(s) or aging parents. The choice to leave active duty for the Reserves. The choice to totally leave the military and become a civilian. The choice to pursue what you belatedly realize are your true interests. The choice to live your life when it needs to be lived instead of putting it on hold for 20 years and hoping that you survive to pick it up again in retirement. The choice to not risk a stress-induced heart attack as an O-5 (there's an Army program for this!) and have to completely redesign your life.

You might not actually NEED any of those choices, but it's a huge mental relief to HAVE them.

In my case the really really bad tour(s) occurred right after I'd incurred a four-year obligation (years 8-11). I gutted it all out but it was very ugly and, in retrospect, I was nuts from the stress. In retrospect I would have been much happier in the Reserves and the resulting retirement would have been about the same. In reality I was too ignorant about the Reserve opportunities (let alone the civilian ones) to have the courage to make the leap.

A few years later spouse had a bad tour of her own. Luckily she didn't have any obligations and was able to transfer to the Reserves-- just short of 18 years. She wouldn't have had the courage to make that decision (and to forego $750K-$1M of pay/pension) if she hadn't educated herself and if we hadn't achieved nearly 20 years of stock-market index returns.

So that's why you want to take a bit of risk with your investments-- to give you choices when you really need to be able to make a choice. It doesn't have to be an insane risk on 100% small-cap telcoms. Instead it should be a diversified asset allocation, perhaps 50-50 stocks/bonds or even 30-70, that lets you take comfort both in the knowledge that you're avoiding big losses while giving your portfolio a margin of safety for the rest of your life's events.

[I'm going to conclude this post in a second part. Stupid vBulletin posting limit!]
 
2. The possibility of the pension going away is a real concern, however remote it may be. That would be the equivalent of losing maybe $2 million in lifetime income. I think that regardless of our investment strategy we'd have to continue working until "normal" retirement age if this happened.
Speaking of "bad things", the military tried this in the 1980s with the original version of REDUX. Retention plummeted so quickly that the JCS persuaded Congress to backpedal to the current "Career Status Bonus". I don't think it's likely to happen again, and even if it does you've correctly pointed out that it will only take you a few more years of civilian employment to make up the difference. But having watched a few swings of the pendulum, I don't see any big changes to military pensions for those already in the service.

I wouldn't lose sleep over a potential 10% or 15% dip in NAV. I'm only worried about the 30%, 50%, 80% losses (which I've been conditioned to expect) and the possibility that we are in a secular bear market similar to what the Japanese have experienced for the last 20 years.
I think that a detailed comparative study of the American and Japanese markets-- corporate behavior, financial regulation, and government management-- would reassure you that it's far less likely to occur here. The Japanese crisis was founded on significant corruption and a lack of political will that makes the U.S. Congress look like a bunch of sober Jeffersonian accountants. And the Japanese example is a potent warning to enable America to avoid repeating their experience. But you have other things to read up on before studying this situation.

Here's what I think you could do right now:
- Max out your TSP and your IRAs. All of that money is available when you need it, before age 59.5 and without penalty, via 72(t) withdrawals or, in the case of Roth IRAs, contribution withdrawals. If you don't feel comfortable doing that then put taxable money in bond funds or CDs for a home down payment or a kid's college fund. The TSP's world-beating expense ratios, even lower than Vanguard, make this too good an opportunity to pass up.
- As W2R ("Just2Retired?") has suggested, while you're learning more about asset allocation you could stick with the TSP's "G" fund and put your IRAs in short-term bond funds or CDs. Then you won't feel (too much) pressure to act.
- Read up on asset allocation and design one that you can live with. It's an iterative process. The AA you decide on today will go through some tweaking over the next 10 years, but the tweaking will be done because you've learned more and feel more confident-- not because you're scared of the markets.
- If you decide that you're truly uncomfortable with stock-market volatility (the risk of loss) then consider dividend stocks/funds, REITs, and landlording rental real estate. The third is a lot more challenging than the first two but they all produce relatively steady streams of income that will help you stop worrying about the actual price of the asset.
- Put a safety valve on your asset allocation. Decide ahead of time that IF the market sets a new high for six months, or if it gains 20% in a year, or if it does some other outlandish woo-hoo! result, THEN you're going to cash out 3-5% of your investments. Taking a little off the table could make you feel better when things revert to the mean. Do this on the other side, too-- if the market sinks to a new low, or loses 20% in a year, or otherwise makes you filled with fear, then raise your savings rate and put even more money into buying shares at rock-bottom prices. In other words, "value average" by putting more money into the losing assets of your allocation when they're cheaper.
- Keep saving. You don't have to change anything on this regard, but watch out for lifestyle creep. If you save the pay of every promotion and live as if you were at one rank lower then you'll be far ahead of your fellow officers.
- Think about what you'd do if you couldn't stand being in the military for another 10 years. That'll help you sort out your life priorities (not just your career priorities) and it'll help you focus on keeping choices available to you.
 
My truly risk adverse suggestion:
First put your Roth IRA money in 7yr CDs at PENFED at 4%. This should preserve your capital+, as long as inflation averages less than 4% over the next 7 yrs, since it is NOT taxed inside the Roth. Max out your contributions for this year & next in these CDs.

Next purchase I-Bonds, 5k at e-treasury and 5k paper for you and your fiance' this month and then again in Jan. Your capital will be preserved for up to 30yrs at inflation rate + .3 minus fed taxes on the total interest when you cash in. (40k total)

TSP: When your marginal tax rate exceeds the current bottom-tear 15%, put the excess amount into TSPs G-Fund(up to limit). Since this is pre-tax money, it & earnings will all be taxed at your marginal rate when you begin to withdrawal them. I doubt you will ever get any lower than current 15%, so putting money which would be taxed at that rate into an account where you will likely be taxed at a higher rate later is iffy at best...
IF you ever start to feel wild and crazy move 10% of TSP$ to the C-Fund when the market appears sufficiently 'beat up'... Since your exposure is only 10% - losing half would only drop your TSP 5% and earnings on the G-Fund will likely make up most if not all of that. So you'll be able to see the amounts preserved - perhaps NOT when inflation is considered - but it is reassuring to see the total rising rather than wildly bouncing up & down. Perhaps moving another 10% of the G-Fund to C-Fund on the downturn would help when/if the stock prices come back. NOTE: any losses in this account are fully tax deductible - since you can't withdrawal it to be taxed, if it isn't there.

After tax money remaining: PENFED 7YR CD at 4% looks to be fairly safe for your longer term savings. Should the rates go up, you can do the math to see if early withdrawal penalties can be made up by the increased rate. Buying additional CDs at regular intervals will lead to some laddering of maturities.

At some point in time you and/or your soon to be spouse will spot some companies at work or home that provide exceptional products or services. If it is publicly traded company and isn't being sold at too much of a premium to it's overall value buy some in a discount brokerage account. NOT a lot just a grand or two something you won't worry about nightly. Hold on to it until you feel they NO longer provide exceptional products OR they are selling at a premium too high to value. Don't worry if you miss a top or a bottom in price. IF you find, you(or spouse) have knack for this start trusting your instincts, who knows maybe you'll be the next Buffett. IF not, there are many stock, etf, mutuals, which can give you diversified stock exposure at relatively low trading costs. You can start with 10% exposure and then precede from there as you feel more or less comfortable. Splitting your savings 90/10 when you feel values justify. If stocks do well, you could achieve an 80/20 portfolio ratio and this would obviously be a good thing -- as long as you don't see another bubble about to pop. Cashing in those winnings and placing them safely in CDs/treasuries etc. should keep you from feeling the agony of defeat when it happens again. Look forward and try NOT to be a daily stock tracker or balance checker.
 
You should consider DCA that $90k into Wellesley Income over the
next 3 years and get on with your real life. At 7%, that could double
every 10 years and give you a tidy nest egg of about $360k in 20
years without adding anything extra to the pot. There will be ups
and downs, but 20 years is a long time to let the pot grow.

The problem, of course, is that few people can exercise the dicipline
of letting the pot grow without dipping for "emergencies" like a college
education, new homes, etc. Perhaps your extra savings over the
next 20 years should be allocated toward saving for the inevitable
and necessary big expenses in life. Make sure those savings are
in short term assets like CDs, MM funds or other short term "safe"
investments so that they will be there when you need them and
reduce the temptation of tapping the mother lode.

May God bless you and your service.

Cheers,

charlie
 
Nords....

Just a point from me on your long post... you seem to infer that Buffet is in for the short term and is timing the market... from what he says (and even said when buying the railroad), he believes in America... in the long term... so he is not worried in losing in a short term, but wants to earn in the long run...

This is what I think you are trying to tell the OP... that the long term is the way we should be investing...
 
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