How the top 5% do it?

[JoeWras]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound Some blue-collar jobs pay very well, but are looked down upon. .

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Originally Posted by CardsFan This so true, and it is a shame. I was an engineer/project manager for a megacorp. My two best friends both worked as tradesmen. One union, one non-union. Their wives worked and also took time off with the kids when they were small, as did mine. ...

I grew up in a household supported by a blue collar job. My dad was a union plumber. I'm grateful for this!

So, on the subject of "looking down" on the job... There was a whole thread on this site looking down on plumbers and complaining, primarily in the title using the word "hate". Just based on the title, I didn't want to get involved, so I haven't participated.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by Senator I believe the homeless issue in the USA is more of a drug abuse issue, not an actual homeless issue.

It is clear that a lot of people who sleep in the street are drug addicts or mental patients. I read that the US used to have many asylums for the mentally ills, but they have been shut down.

When people cannot take care of themselves, do we incarcerate them? There is no easy solution.

Hawaii has paid psychiatrists to go talk to mental patients in the streets: https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/0...eam-gets-city/.

See this for drug addiction problem among the homeless: https://www.city-journal.org/opiods-...ess-west-coast.

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Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort There are many working poor in our area who simply can't afford housing. Research shows homelessness is largely linked to rent prices. Some live in RVs here but it is a big issue on where they can park them. Some of the cities are trying to set up designated parking lots for all the RVs.

Yes, there are people who work for a living, but do not make enough to pay rent. They are not drug addicts or mentally disabled.

Why do people flock to a place? I know it is so because it has some desirable attributes, but when it becomes crowded and expensive, at what point does the negativity offset the pluses?

The US is a big place. There are other cities with jobs, and housing not as ridiculously priced. How do we get people to spread out? It should be noted that the West coast leads the nation in having more homeless people. The drug addicts and mentally disabled concentrate where it is easy to get drug and to panhandle, but the able bodied should go where their quality of life will be better.

[pj.mask]

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Originally Posted by 24601NoMore ... We all have / had the same opportunity, being born in the greatest country in history. What we all CHOOSE to do with that opportunity is up to US, and "luck" has ZIP to do with the outcome.

I’m glad you agree zip code has a lot to do with your projected outcome. Personally, I chose to be born in a good zip code.

[pj.mask]

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Originally Posted by RobLJ ... So, yea, luck doesn't explain much, but it also explains a lot. ... Sorry for the length and somewhat off-topic nature of the above; I guess I don't have anything to apologize for (probably, but I can't think of it) but I did win the gene lottery. If I didn't acknowledge that, I would betray my twin who didn't win at all, but it wasn't his fault. ...

I think this is what many of us think.

Nobody is saying the people who succeeded didn’t work hard for their success or shouldn’t be proud of what they accomplished.

But to say luck played no part in their success and others could have simply put in the hard work, but didn’t...

Could your brother have just put in hard work?
Could that schizophrenic homeless guy?
Could that kid with dyslexia and ADHD?
Could that kid with PTSD?
The one with social anxiety?

Some can and some can’t. I agree with most everyone here in saying ‘I wish they could overcome their issues and become a successful/productive member of society’ but I fall out of agreement when it gets to ‘they are capable of doing so but were just lazy’

[LOL!]

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Originally Posted by JoeWras I grew up in a household supported by a blue collar job. My dad was a union plumber. I'm grateful for this! So, on the subject of "looking down" on the job... There was a whole thread on this site looking down on plumbers and complaining, primarily in the title using the word "hate". Just based on the title, I didn't want to get involved, so I haven't participated.

That thread did not look down on competent plumbers.

[JoeWras]

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Originally Posted by LOL! That thread did not look down on competent plumbers.

Probably should have used a different title then.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by pj.mask Some can and some can’t. I agree with most everyone here in saying ‘I wish they could overcome their issues and become a successful/productive member of society’ but I fall out of agreement when it gets to ‘they are capable of doing so but were just lazy’

If we make it too easy, many will claim that they are not capable and will not bother to make the effort. It's just human nature. People who have raised kids know this very well.

I think the question is how much reward should be given to people to try harder, and how much to allow for people who still fail.

[Kwirk]

I was very lucky to be born with a capacity for hard work. It's in society's interest to reward me for my work but I'd rather not p*ss off those who were not so born.

[24601NoMore]

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Originally Posted by pj.mask I’m glad you agree zip code has a lot to do with your projected outcome. Personally, I chose to be born in a good zip code.

You must have missed my earlier post - I was born in a HORRIBLE zip code with murders happening right outside my front door. We moved when the latest murderer threw his gun into our trash can.

Again..ANYONE born into this great country of ours has the SAME opportunity. All the rest is just politics and or/whining.

[MichaelB]

Why don't y'all let it be and move on. You've both made your points.

[Aerides]

- I wasn't born into this country. I suppose I could consider myself lucky that my parents were able to move here when I was young (i certainly had nothing to do with it) I'm sure I'd have done OK where I was, but of course it would be different, and can't know how things would have turned out. Better? Worse? Different

- I was lucky to have an above the line IQ. Can't fix that with hard work. Sure, those will lower basic intelligence can do well, but life must be easier when you start on the right hand side of the bell curve

- I made some stupid decisions early on. I got out of them and moved on, but they could have sunk me a good bit if I hadn't had a little good karma on my side. I also had a couple of medical mishaps that could have put me in the grave, but today have no impact on my life - both totally out of my control

- I picked a good company, (literally from an ad in the paper) worked hard and smart and climbed up, took the right opportunities, and got on the right projects at the right time

As with any of these threads, I do wonder why some choose to dig in and not see that a sliver of the other side might be worth considering? It's either "it was me, all ME ME ME" or, "it's all random I got born lucky". Like most things there's probably a bit of everything thrown in there.

Whether it was all me (it wasn't) or not, I do think it's now my responsibility to be kind to those less fortunate, help where it's appropriate, and not pass judgment or assume that someone with less is any less worthy.

[pj.mask]

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Originally Posted by 24601NoMore You must have missed my earlier post - I was born in a HORRIBLE zip code with murders happening right outside my front door. We moved when the latest murderer threw his gun into our trash can. Again..ANYONE born into this great country of ours has the SAME opportunity. All the rest is just politics and or/whining.

You must have missed my earlier posts where the entire topic was: some people can overcome their challenges, others can’t.
Your expectations for others in slightly different situations to have an outcome exactly like yours is unrealistic.

Just because someone was born with the capability to be successful in a situation doesn’t mean that others have the ability to succeed in that situation.

That is why your zip code predicts your outcome with a pretty high correlation. Glad your parents were able to move you out of that bad neighborhood - unfortunately many kids in that neighborhood weren’t as *LUCKY* (unless you’re implying that the kids can somehow control where their parents raise them).

Again, congrats on beating statistics but it is kind of silly to say as a whole society should focus on one off special cases.

[24601NoMore]

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Originally Posted by pj.mask You must have missed my earlier posts where the entire topic was: some people can overcome their challenges, others can’t. Your expectations for others in slightly different situations to have an outcome exactly like yours is unrealistic. Just because someone was born with the capability to be successful in a situation doesn’t mean that others have the ability to succeed in that situation. That is why your zip code predicts your outcome with a pretty high correlation. Glad your parents were able to move you out of that bad neighborhood - unfortunately many kids in that neighborhood weren’t as *LUCKY* (unless you’re implying that the kids can somehow control where their parents raise them). Again, congrats on beating statistics but it is kind of silly to say as a whole society should focus on one off special cases.

Since Michael politely suggested "moving on", I'm going to bow out and do exactly that. You guys know my perspective (basically, that there is no scenario that cannot be overcome, barring actual, severe mental or physical limitations like kids with Fragile-X, leukemia, etc might have - and that all the talk about "luck" and "privilege" is basically politicians pitting us against each other for their own gain).

Regarding OP's original topic - in my experience, getting into the "upper 5%" (whatever that means) can be done by determining what the free market system wants, working to develop the skills to provide that, and working your tail off to do so. And LBYM. That's how the "5%" do it. But then again, I'm not big on dividing people into groups - 5% vs 95%, etc. and believe we all have the same basic opportunity, regardless of our lot in life - unless we're born with some horribly debilitating limitation which unfortunately many are, including some in my own family. For example - I have a wonderful nephew with Fragile-X. Safe to say he's going to need lifetime care and will most likely never hold down a "normal" job. Those are the outliers. But for the bulk of us..the way to FI (5%, 10%, whatever if anyone insists on bucketizing and categorizing people) is not that complicated IMHO. Develop a skill (that's in demand). Work your tail off. Save everything you can, and then some.

[aja8888]

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Originally Posted by Kwirk I was very lucky to be born with a capacity for hard work.

The above rang a bell inside me.

Rather than waste time detailing how I got here (and we are not in the 5%), let me say that 95% of everything along the way in my life went wrong, was the wrong decision, or was a poor choice, except for the capacity to work hard, keep my head down and keep thinning the cabbage.

[saydiver]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound The US is estimated to have 1 million people living in RV, and many by choice. They do not consider themselves homeless. That would have added another 0.3% to the US number, bringing it closer to the top.

Most of these RVers have a legal address, although they don't actually live at the address. I know because we were full-time RVers for almost eight years.

Living in a RV is a great way to see the country and still sleep in your own bed at night and many days we had million dollar views. My RV had all the amenities of a house, except lots of square footage.

When you live in a RV even by choice, you're correct that people consider you homeless. I had more than one person tell me they felt sorry for me, yet my RV was worth more than their house.

[JoeWras]

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Originally Posted by Aerides As with any of these threads, I do wonder why some choose to dig in and not see that a sliver of the other side might be worth considering? It's either "it was me, all ME ME ME" or, "it's all random I got born lucky". Like most things there's probably a bit of everything thrown in there. Whether it was all me (it wasn't) or not, I do think it's now my responsibility to be kind to those less fortunate, help where it's appropriate, and not pass judgment or assume that someone with less is any less worthy.

Aerides: two golden paragraphs right there! Thank you, thank you.

This side-picking thinking and defending is really getting destructive. It is a Sunday morning, and I'm dreading going to my church because this kind of thing has infected the congregation. Looks like I'm going to have to quit. Yeah, I'm losing faith in just about everything over this.

[marko]

Let's remember though that for every "lucky", privileged, tall, trust funder there was some great-grandparent who was born poor and worked his butt off to provide that "financial inertia" to last 3 or 4 or 5 generations.

Many here are now laying a new, first step foundation for "those of privilege" whether they be their issue or some charity. (except for Robbie who plans to blow all his dough)

[pj.mask]

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Originally Posted by JoeWras Aerides: two golden paragraphs right there! Thank you, thank you. This side-picking thinking and defending is really getting destructive. It is a Sunday morning, and I'm dreading going to my church because this kind of thing has infected the congregation. Looks like I'm going to have to quit. Yeah, I'm losing faith in just about everything over this.

I don’t think anyone in this thread who believe luck plays a big role in success had even suggested that hard work was not a required part of the recipe for success.

The argument is:

Can some people work hard and not succeed due to luck? Are some people not capable of success (maybe they work hard but don’t have the intellect to work in something with high compensation)

Or

EVERYONE, no matter how dumb, how bad they were raised/educated (short of the 0.001% with sever handicaps) are capable of reaching the top 5% in success if they just work hard - but they just choose not to.

[jimbee]

It's been quoted before, but here it is again.

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."

[Calico]

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Originally Posted by Aerides As with any of these threads, I do wonder why some choose to dig in and not see that a sliver of the other side might be worth considering? It's either "it was me, all ME ME ME" or, "it's all random I got born lucky". Like most things there's probably a bit of everything thrown in there. Whether it was all me (it wasn't) or not, I do think it's now my responsibility to be kind to those less fortunate, help where it's appropriate, and not pass judgment or assume that someone with less is any less worthy.

+1000