How to politely let your elders know you won't support them?

[sweetana3]

Selling a house does not make one homeless. There are great senior apartment complexes out there in many places for seniors who do not have a lot of money in the bank. We have one around the corner from our house for about $500 per month. YES, they may have to take a hit on standard of living and live in an apartment. BUT, it will be of their own making.

Best thing is no letter!!! During every visit insert a general comment about retirement planning in the conversation. May not get very far but for us it got parents to do the wills, durable powers of attorney and think about it. Gently let them know they have to "keep planning" for the day they have less stamina and ability to recover. I have the same issue with them listening.

Kind of like not springing it on kids what your college finance expectations really are. If you always expected them to save 50%, make that clear while they are growing up. Dont just drop them into it without warning. Tell them about consequences. You will probably get sick of repeating yourself. And it may help to find some books from advisors that are their generation for them to read and leave the books with them.

We bought my inlaws a little house 30 years ago and to this day, provide the taxes and insurance. We also provide pharmacy cards to Walmart so they can get their medicine. However, I have also told my husband for the last 20+ years that he only married me to be his nurse. Therefore, he is not expecting me to nurse relatives in any way and at any time. And I also gently remind him of this when we are talking about the health of his parents.

We have scouted out a variety of living arrangements for them but in our house is not going to be one of them.

 

[OAG]

"Been there, done that". My Mother worked all of her life (from 15 to 64), never made much money -- lost a daughter to a car accident when I was less that a year old -- led to divorce from my Father, who NEVER paid child support or any other support to my Mother. When she retired on SS and a very small not-cola'd pension she was moving every year within Chicago to try to stay ahead of the rent rates. Apartments got smaller and smaller in worse and worse neighborhoods. I purchased a Condo for her, of her choice, in Chicago. I worked three jobs and my DW worked one job to feed family (4 kids) to buy that thing. Later on we moved her to Florida (after we retired) to her own new house down the street from us (she was "independent"). Only had to hustle a couple of jobs to swing that home for her. She died happy that her only living kid could and would step in to help in her last 14 or so years of life. Personally, I hope and pray my kids NEVER have to do it for me and/or my DW but I also know they would -- something about trying to set the example. For family you do what you can.

To tell your Parents or IL's "I got enough for me and mine but not for you, so don't even ask" is just sad. Remember what "goes around" has a way of "coming around".

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Just to clarify, I think we should support our families when they step on a rake.

I dont think the family members should plan their lives and spend their funds presuming that they'll get bailed out when they run out of money.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

i tend to be with martha on this. i couldn't imagine my parents not supporting me when i needed it. i couldn't imagine not helping mom when she needed it. life is hard enough. but then, i don't know what it is like to have family who spends beyond their means (outside of one cousin who i am not responsible for but who i've already invited to live with me if need be). and i certainly don't know what it is like to have family who are not appreciative of each other.

my bro & sil are going through something like this now with her mom who has another daughter & grandchild living off her. she is in 70s, in ill health and still works. wants to tap $150k from $450k house to pay off $cc debt and, i don't know, to have some cash around? brother & sil know if that happens they'll be supporting the inlaws within two years.

sil told her mom they won't offer support later if her money runs out. i looked at her and said "of course you will; that's what we do." my brother's youngest is 10 so he'll be working until he's dead anyway, what's an extra five years.

bro & sil are trying to structure the mother's life so she can live well on what she's got without working so sil threatened no future help to try to get mom to understand what she is jeopardizing.

i don't know why but for some reason it seems more appropriate that they do this now that they are in their 50s and her mom is in her 70s. yet it seems out of place for you to do this in your 30s. i don't have a good reason why i think there is a difference. maybe you can think of one.

ps, just read r wood's post. yer a good son.

 

[Moemg]

. . In other words early retirement could be off the table completely. Or it could take a drastic cut in your retirement expenses which may mean a much leaner retirement lifestyle than what you had anticipated (and that may not be to your spouse's taste). In other words, wanting to help family members in need may be noble, but it would require major sacrifices on your part and could have a major impact on your own life (on your health, on your marriage, on your sanity, on your happiness...).

Sometimes s--- happens .My Mom did not plan to live to 91 and need help physically and financially and I know she didn't mean to change my retirement plans but she's my mother and after all she did for me how could I not be there for her.

 

[73ss454]

Amen to that. But the selfish brats who have posted in this thread about off-loading their parents should they be in need may have actually done a sevice to our young parents on the board. Just be sure you don't raise kids like this.

Ha

Hey Ha, do you feel as I do that there's a few posters on the thread that need their mouths washed out with soap?

 

[FIREd]

Moemg, I did not say one should not make sacrifices to help their parents when in need. I probably would. I was just saying it is too easy for people to say, well no matter what I will step in and help the folks because I am a good (selfrighteous) person. I think most people just don't realize the level of commitment required in such situation which could have far reaching consequences for themselves, consequences that they might not be prepared to deal with. Perhaps their own marriage will end in divorce because of it (their husband or wife may not be on board with them helping the folks financially because they had envisioned using the money differently in retirement). Are they ready for that level of sacrifice?

 

[obryanjf]

A couple of years ago, my dad asked about how much $$ he should have to be able to retire. I told him I could sum up the research quickly, and just told him to multiply the income he wanted by 25 and save that amount. I got a weird look and could tell he (1) didn't have that much yet, and (2) didn't really believe me. So I gave him a copy of the Trinity Study, and then Bernstein's Retirement Calculator From Hell Part 1 and Part 2. Next thing I now he's saving like mad and asking questions about retirement investing, asset allocation, withdrawal strategies, etc. My own little scared straight program.

- Alec

Not to get off point, but I hope you also mentioned that that 25x number has no SS or pension built in and he adjusted that BIG number for his expected SS.

job

 

[2soon2tell]

R. Wood,

For what its worth I think you have your priorities straight regarding helping your parents. I lost both of mine at ages 48 and 64. I wish they were here today so I would view their support as a good problem to have.

2soon

 

[modhatter]

My experience (and I have a lot of it) is that trying to talk rationally to irrational people is like pouring hot molting lead into your own eye. It will be very painful and get you absolutely nowhere.

I have supported my mother and mentally handicaped brother for as long as I can remember even as a kid with my first jobs. The only thing that changed over the years was the amount, until I was responsible for most of their living expences. How many conversations I had with my mother to try and get her to be more careful with money, I could not begin to tell you.

Then came the warnings in the later years that my income would soon be coming to an end and would not have the income to support them as before. All fell of deft ears. I have three other brothers and sisters who have contributed zero to my mother and brothers keep dispite my many pleas. So, at the late age of 65, I have my house on the market, bought a small inexpensive home in Mexico, and when my house sells, my son and I are out of here, and someone else will just HAVE to pick up the ball.

My point is... This is not the way I would have liked to see it go in my mother's final years, but all my efforts to make changes over the years failed miserably. I don't know when the time comes, if I will really be able to walk away. That part remains to be seen.

So talk all you want to irresponsible, irrational and in some cases selfish people, and what you will gain is a bad case of "odjada" (haven't a clue how to spell that) and nothing more.

 

[Moemg]

I think someone should start a thread "How to politely tell your kids you won't pay for summer camp ,braces ,cars ,college and dont even think about weddings "

 

[Rustic23]

Both of my parents have passed away. In the last 5 years of my mothers life, she lived on SS and needed additional funds to fix her house. She cried because she had to ask her kids for help. I told her she had given me more than I could ever repay. Did my parents not save properly for their retirement... don't know... they did raise 5 kids, lived through the great depression, 4 or the 5 have degrees, two advanced degrees.

I never looked at it as somethng I owed them. If I had needed the money, I believe they would have hocked their house to get it for me. Most parents never stop being parents. Some kids never stop being kids.

 

[Bigritchie]

I do not think anyone is saying they wouldn't feed someone in their family that is starving.

I also think people look at this through, possibly how their own parents were. Some parents are great, and some are not.

I think what the Op is saying, is not "your on your own do not expect me to pull you over a cliff if you are hanging off".

I think what he is saying is " Do not expect my to buy you a new Lexus every year, and do not base your own future on 'well billy bob is rich, why should I save'"

 

[kcowan]

Twenty years ago I offered to take over investment management for my Dad's portfolio. He was in government bonds and I knew I could generate better returns. He declined saying he valued his independence.

About the only thing he ever let me do for him was regular meals and the odd car ride after he lost his license.

My kids are the same way. Independence is a deeply ingrained family trait.

 

[Martha]

Modhatter, such a sad story. Some things just have no good or easy solutions.

 

[justin]

I think someone should start a thread "How to politely tell your kids you won't pay for summer camp ,braces ,cars ,college and dont even think about weddings "

It would be a pretty short thread. Let me summarize: "No"

 

[Brat]

I think the original poster's concern was that the spend-thrift parent who is living beyond her means would put their savings in her budget.

There is nothing wrong with not sharing the extent of their savings with others, particularly if that might inspire another family member to save for their own needs.

Should the time come that the spend-thrift is in need of financial support the couple can determine what is appropriate at that time. It is not that they won't help then, just that they want to change parental behavior now.

My DIL has a mother with a similar behavior pattern. DIL said that her mother believes that she will die early. She is gregarious and generous with her time, much loved. She is also very adaptive. DIL said that she doesn't anticipate needing assistance but they anticipate helping her out if the need arises.

 

[Joss]

"Life" comes at us in all shapes and sizes. The quality of family members and parents run the full range of the spectrum from smart, inquisitive, hard working, supportive and helpful... to foolish, close minded, lazy, guilt mongering and mean.

Thus there's a huge difference in what it takes out of a person to deal with those on the "downhill" side, compared to those on the "sweet" side. On the downhill side, the blood relationship creates the ingrained obligation. Yet nothing provided is ever enough. This is a formula for permanent guilt and dysfunction.

Unless you've been there, you might want to rethink whether these obligations should be stated as absolutes.

 

[HobbyDave]

Just to clarify, I think we should support our families when they step on a rake.

I dont think the family members should plan their lives and spend their funds presuming that they'll get bailed out when they run out of money.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was getting at. I am perfectly willing to come to the rescue of my family members if disaster strikes. They won't be left homeless while I bask at our beach house.

I just want to make certain no one includes our non-existent wealth in their retirement plans. One of my big concerns that plenty of people have mentioned in the past, is that as soon as I mention we're looking at retiring young, everyone assumes that we struck it big with a startup. Their thoughts of retiring early seem to always involve millions in stock options.

 

[HobbyDave]

Hey Ha, do you feel as I do that there's a few posters on the thread that need their mouths washed out with soap?

I just thought I'd add that it's rude to be insulting people when you have no idea what their personal situations are. Saying you disagree is fine, saying that I shouldn't selfishly retire until I've bought my parents houses, hey, go for it.

But saying people are selfish, should have their mouths washed out with soap, is really counter productive to say the least.

 

[Martha]

I have had three false starts to this post, so clearly I don't quite know what I want to say. So I'll be brief.

1. Whatever you think you need to do, I wouldn't do it in a letter.

2. Why do you want to retire so early with such a tight budget? Sometimes I worry about the extra early retirees who partly because they are so young they need very little. In my early 30s I would have had no idea of what I find I need in my 50s.

 

[HobbyDave]

1. Whatever you think you need to do, I wouldn't do it in a letter.

I think I agree with you on that. In the past we've had financial conversations with the parents, and we've told them about our plans. I think I just need to be a bit more transparent when talking finances, so they'll be aware of how much (or how little) we will have. That will probably do exactly what I need, which is to make certain everyone is aware we're not rich

2. Why do you want to retire so early with such a tight budget? Sometimes I worry about the extra early retirees who partly because they are so young they need very little. In my early 30s I would have had no idea of what I find I need in my 50s.

Because we don't like working Lets say we retire at age 40. We live on 20k per year (sailing in Asia for example, easily fits within suggested budgets), but that might only be 2% of our funds. We let our funds grow for 10-15 years as we sail around, and then when we come to land, our bank account should have grown enough that we could increase our spending to something more reasonable for land living.

 

[Khan]

I think someone should start a thread "How to politely tell your kids you won't pay for summer camp ,braces ,cars ,college and dont even think about weddings "

My parents didn't pay for any of that; though they did buy a bus ticket so I could go to my first after college job.

They loaned me $400 to buy a car and I paid it back 18 months later.

 

[brewer12345]

DW and I would not hesitate to bail out a family member, assuming we were able. We have bailed out her younger sister a couple of times for what amounts (to us) to peanuts, and we would do it for larger sums if need be. But I recognize that that's not the way everyone's family is.

The more I think about it, the more I am convenced that DW is right: I will need a plausible cover sory when I retire. Most likely it will be a small business that takes very little time. That way people's expectations will be reasonable.

 

[Lusitan]

My parents didn't pay for my university education, wedding, car, house, or anything else. They also live above their means and even today live higher on the hog than my wife and I even though we make probably 5x what they make. And their financial situation is a mess despite my attempts to educate them and get them to change their behavior.

I will not delay my plans for FIRE to pay for my parents to continue the lifestyle that they enjoy now.

But I will open my home to them and welcome them to live with us for as long as they want/need to - we'll make space, and the extra food/utilities cost will be minimal. We'll find a way to make it work. And if they have some major healthcare costs that make it unavoidable for me to go back to work, I will.

They raised me in their home for 18 years and that counts for a lot.