How to structure unusual will?

... All the more reason to hire an expert who can draft [a trust agreement] that is most likely to be bulletproof.

Not to get off-topic, but as trustee I terminated a couple of irrevocable trusts a few years ago using authority explicitly stated in the trust agreement. I recommend that anyone creating an irrevocable trust consider giving the trustee limited power to terminate the trust. Why? Well, unexpected stuff happens. In my case, the grantors were surprised when I terminated the trusts - they thought that 'irrevocable' meant 'permanent'. They apparently didn't read the fine print in the trust agreement before signing. :popcorn:
 
Not to get off-topic, but as trustee I terminated a couple of irrevocable trusts a few years ago using authority explicitly stated in the trust agreement. I recommend that anyone creating an irrevocable trust consider giving the trustee limited power to terminate the trust. Why? Well, unexpected stuff happens. In my case, the grantors were surprised when I terminated the trusts - they thought that 'irrevocable' meant 'permanent'. They apparently didn't read the fine print in the trust agreement before signing. :popcorn:
DW has mentioned that only a few states allow "perpetual" trusts, so that language may have been necessitated by your state law or as a lawyer tactic to duck a bullet. South Dakota and Nevada are popular states that do allow perpetual trusts. Possibly that is why Schwab Trust is domiciled in Nevada.
 
Not to get off-topic, but as trustee I terminated a couple of irrevocable trusts a few years ago using authority explicitly stated in the trust agreement. I recommend that anyone creating an irrevocable trust consider giving the trustee limited power to terminate the trust. Why? Well, unexpected stuff happens. In my case, the grantors were surprised when I terminated the trusts - they thought that 'irrevocable' meant 'permanent'. They apparently didn't read the fine print in the trust agreement before signing. :popcorn:

I always thought that the "irrevocable" referred to the grantor, but I could be wrong.
 
I often find myself reading threads like this as if I'm reading about a mysterious tribe of people who live in a far land I will never visit. For many generations in my family, it has been every man for himself, and that continues in the generations following mine. You leave home when you are 18 and make your way in the world as best you can. There is no financial support for adult children and nobody has ever inherited anything because everyone has been poor. So far, to my knowledge, I am the only one to have any money.

My parents gave me free food and board during the vacations while I was in University. After I graduated, Dad gave me a ride home. Shortly after we walked in the door, he congratulated me and said, "You know you're on your own now don't you?" Some folk I've told that story to thought it was a bit harsh, but I thought nothing of the kind. I was eager to make my own way in the world, and was quite happy for him to set that firm boundary. My brothers and I did end up inheriting a modest amount, but we never expected anything.
 
I'll give my two cents as my own experience:

My now-deceased dear mom and I often had conversations about why her lawyer sisters didn't follow her father's will as written. My answer was always "because they didn't really have to; your dad wasn't around to force issue and your siblings weren't going to fight lawyer-sisters over anything. You're the only one upset, and you're in the minority."

Of course dear mom didn't like that answer, but after a while I think she finally understood that NO ONE can truly dictate what happens to their belongings and finances after they are gone.

And now here I am in that same position with dear old mom's things.

She stated in her will my siblings were to get nothing (they were estranged from her and me for 25+ years) so that works.
One siblings has asked for things from mom's house. Will I give said things up? Haven't decided.
Mom told me not to give some of her jewelry to certain family members (NOT my siblings) because she felt "slighted" at one point. Will I honor that? Still undecided.

SO I guess my point here is, while I love my mom still, she's gone, and I have her 'stuff' to deal with. And now it's my 'stuff' to decide about, so I'll do what I'm going to do with it.

Sorry mom, you can't control me from the grave, just like your dad couldn't control your sisters....
 
Mom told me not to give some of her jewelry to certain family members (NOT my siblings) because she felt "slighted" at one point. Will I honor that? Still undecided.
That reminded me of my father's mother, who had a cocktail ring with a huge diamond. My father's sister REALLY wanted it simply because it is valuable, but my father's side of the family was the more dysfunctional side, and my aunt wasn't very diplomatic in letting her mother know she wanted that ring. So my grandmother left it to my mother, her daughter-in-law, mostly out of spite. Now we have it and we'll probably sell it at some point because it has no historical significance in our family anyway. If my aunt weren't MUCH better off than we are, or had any consideration for other people, I'd happily give it to her, but my mother didn't want us to say anything to my aunt about it, and I have no reason to.
 
SO I guess my point here is, while I love my mom still, she's gone, and I have her 'stuff' to deal with. And now it's my 'stuff' to decide about, so I'll do what I'm going to do with it.

Sorry mom, you can't control me from the grave, just like your dad couldn't control your sisters....

An independent, non family member as executor is sometimes a better way to go, especially when there may be disagreements over special conditions.
 
I fully understand OP's position & feelings. My youngest son tried to kill his mother (my ex-wife), failed, was caught, & has been in under mandated mental care, in another state. When I traveled to see him, he asked me for a hug, & then tried to kill me with a shiv! That was my last contact with him, 20+ years ago, as he has continued to turn down any financial help I tried to give him, over distance. I consider that as sufficient reason to omit him from our will.

My DM wanted to cut out my "brother" from her Will, and so her lawyer wrote in the Will (paraphrased here) XXXXXXX is excluded from inheriting because he did the following ..... He is not being excluded due to ommission.

Basically her lawyer made sure he could not contest her Will to say that she simply "forgot" to put his name down. :LOL:
 
My parents gave me free food and board during the vacations while I was in University. After I graduated, Dad gave me a ride home. Shortly after we walked in the door, he congratulated me and said, "You know you're on your own now don't you?" Some folk I've told that story to thought it was a bit harsh, but I thought nothing of the kind. I was eager to make my own way in the world, and was quite happy for him to set that firm boundary. My brothers and I did end up inheriting a modest amount, but we never expected anything.

Similar,
My parents said I could have free room and board (and do chores) as long as I paid for my University and was in school. :flowers:
 
I think you should let your feelings of control and (I don't know exactly what to call it) "dislike" for daughter A and leave it 50/50. Please don't punish daughter B for liking her sister and nieces and nephews. I agree with others that this is punishing everyone and not worth it. Life is too short to spend it worrying about things like this :(
 
My DM wanted to cut out my "brother" from her Will, and so her lawyer wrote in the Will (paraphrased here) XXXXXXX is excluded from inheriting because he did the following ..... He is not being excluded due to ommission.

Basically her lawyer made sure he could not contest her Will to say that she simply "forgot" to put his name down. :LOL:

That's just good practice. You have to mention offspring even if you leave them nothing or they can claim you just forgot them. Back in the 1970s when I was working summers for a couple of lawyers during college, there was a tale in the County offices of one lawyer who left his son 40 dimes. Yeah, 40 pieces of silver.:D

My parents gave me free food and board during the vacations while I was in University. After I graduated, Dad gave me a ride home. Shortly after we walked in the door, he congratulated me and said, "You know you're on your own now don't you?" Some folk I've told that story to thought it was a bit harsh, but I thought nothing of the kind. I was eager to make my own way in the world, and was quite happy for him to set that firm boundary. My brothers and I did end up inheriting a modest amount, but we never expected anything.

Dad never said that explicitly but that was the understanding on our family as well. Although my one brother lived with them for nearly a year enduring an hour-long commute (that was a lot for Ohio) rather than set up his own place, he was eventually forced out when Mom and Dad moved to Buffalo! The rest of us were either married by graduation or happy to strike out on our own immediately.
 
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Really, folks. I just re-read the OP and @GoodbyeYellow did not ask for any advice on his personal and family issues. He simply asked for some discussion and ideas on how to implement his and his wife's wishes. Ann Landers has been dead for a few years now, but I think her advice for posts on the subject of @GoodbyeYellow's family situation would be to MYOB. @GoodbyeYellow has been more polite than I probably would have been.

Just my 2¢.
 
I often find myself reading threads like this as if I'm reading about a mysterious tribe of people who live in a far land I will never visit. For many generations in my family, it has been every man for himself, and that continues in the generations following mine. You leave home when you are 18 and make your way in the world as best you can. There is no financial support for adult children and nobody has ever inherited anything because everyone has been poor. So far, to my knowledge, I am the only one to have any money.



The same is true for most families including mine. I am definitely the only one with any money.
 
At least I think it may be unusual, but who knows.

California, self and wife, 2 married daughters, one in state, one not. Labels: A and B respectively. A and spouse are considerably ahead, financially, of B and spouse and will likely remain that way.

A and husband have repeatedly deserved their way out of anything we might have left them. So originally, we figured B and hubby would get it all, CA home included plus likely 7 figures plus in liquid assets (that would depend on timing and some other things of course but it is likely). In any case, the house is definitely that and more. When we shared this original plan with her, B clearly stated she will not live in CA,

So recently B, who is still on good(ish) terms with A, indicated she would leave a good percentage of whatever she got from us in her will to A's child(ren). (B will probably not have kids).

This does not suit us well. Are there ways to prevent, or substantially prevent, that last intention above from being fulfilled? It is our money, our hard work that created it, so we say no thank you to that plan.

One idea but I don't know how far that will fly:

Write the will to provide B a small percentage of the balance each year. For example 3 or 4% a year of the liquid assets until depleted. Idea is to give her enough (they are comfortable, but not very comfortable) that their life improves, but not enough that it improves to the point where they get demotivated to do anything, and certainly not enough to where they feel they can easily part with half of it.

The house we could will to charity, but I'd really like to give it to an org that does a good job helping the unhoused, or children or elders needing special care.

Other ideas? I plan to meet an attorney but need to select one first, and would like to have some idea of the possibilities before meeting.

My father at one point advised me that because I worked hard and made a career and a good living that he was going to remove me from his will and leave everything to my two sisters who he had pretty much supported all their lives. I was pissed! Felt it was wrong to penalize me for working so hard, starting a business etc. He agreed and named me his trustee and executor. I managed to modify his estate before he died and saved 7 figures in Estate taxes. Had I not been a beneficiary I doubt I would have bothered but the work I did left them both with a passive income stream that will support them forever. By basically removing a large asset from the estate and with the help of some very talented attorneys kicking the capital gains taxes down the road many years.

I am a believer in treated your kids and grandkids equally. You can leave the money to the grandkids in trust until they are 25 or 30 but people change as they grow up. You can’t know what the future will bring…
 
An independent, non family member as executor is sometimes a better way to go, especially when there may be disagreements over special conditions.

Agree 100%.

However in my case mom's will named my siblings and said specifically they were to get nothing, I was to receive everything - real estate, personal effects, etc that weren't jointly held by me with her. Her directives concerning her jewelry were verbal to me, so no independent executor would make a difference in what I'm doing now.

And I'm sure if mom could tell me she would say DO NOT give my sister what she wants.... (yes, the relationship was that broken.)
 
Agree 100%.

However in my case mom's will named my siblings and said specifically they were to get nothing, I was to receive everything - real estate, personal effects, etc that weren't jointly held by me with her. Her directives concerning her jewelry were verbal to me, so no independent executor would make a difference in what I'm doing now.

And I'm sure if mom could tell me she would say DO NOT give my sister what she wants.... (yes, the relationship was that broken.)

I'm not sure that an independent executor could keep you from being more generous than required
 
I'm not sure that an independent executor could keep you from being more generous than required

But what one does with their own inheritance after distribution is different from what an independent executor would do in executing the will.
 
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Realities to consider, before you speak with a lawyer.

A house given to someone who doesn't want or need it is an albatross. Better to direct that it be sold.

I assume that you have a "nice home in a nice neighborhood." If you give it to a charity that does good works, it will most likely not be doing its good works in the home. It will not want to have to deal with your neighbors, for one thing. It will sell the home and use the proceeds for its mission elsewhere. It will want more bang for your bucks.

Most lawyers will recommend 50-50 division of property between two children, without reference to whether one "deserves" it. If A's problem relates to the management of money, using a trust mechanism is the appropriate approach, to keep a flow of income but to protect the principal. The trustee can be authorized to approve limited distributions of principal for specified purposes.

Although I do not live or work there, I have heard that California lawyers most often recommend a trust rather than a will from the outset. The key point is that the portion of the trust for a spendthrift child should keep the funds under management, while the funds going to a more responsible child could be distributed soon after the death of the surviving Settlor.
 
But what one does with their own inheritance after distribution is different from what an independent executor would do in executing the will.

So how exactly would frances or her mother or her sblings have been better off with an independent executor?

Or more generally consider the case of a single heir inheriting 100%

Consider also the possible costs of the independent executor
 
I am a believer in treating your kids and grandkids equally. You can leave the money to the grandkids in trust until they are 25 or 30 but people change as they grow up. You can’t know what the future will bring…

I know this thread has gone on to discuss issues beyond the OP's story but I think all of us have to take a lot of things into consideration when making bequests and this discussion is helpful.

On treating kids and grandkids equally- not an issue for me since I have only DS, but I'm thinking of my brother. His daughter has an MBA but is a SAHM and is married to a great guy who was the youngest partner in the history of his CPA firm (recognizable name but not the Big 6). They have two daughters. Son #1 has an engineering degree and a good job but endured a messy divorce and may be paying CS despite the fact that his Ex has a doctorate in chemistry- also well-employed. I don't know the details- not my business- but I'd guess he's got a lot less $$ than his sister. Also two daughters. Son #3 has a degree in nuclear engineering, good job, almost 40 and unmarried, no kids.

I'm really not sure what I'd do in my brother's place but I'd be tempted to leave less to the daughter and the most to son #1 and let everyone know why beforehand.
 
I'm still not clear how even a well-written trust could prevent B from giving money to A. Could the trustee demand to see all bank statements from B, and ask for documentation of what B did with all transfers and withdrawals, and if that is not complied with, the trust does not distribute any money to B? Even if that's legal, I would think it would have to be a ridiculous amount of money to convince someone who is in a comfortable financial position to comply, but I'm mostly just curious about the practicalities.
 
I'm still not clear how even a well-written trust could prevent B from giving money to A. Could the trustee demand to see all bank statements from B, and ask for documentation of what B did with all transfers and withdrawals, and if that is not complied with, the trust does not distribute any money to B? Even if that's legal, I would think it would have to be a ridiculous amount of money to convince someone who is in a comfortable financial position to comply, but I'm mostly just curious about the practicalities.
I think you're right; it would be difficult to impossible.

The only thing I can think of, and it's not the same thing, would be for the trust to dole out the money to B in small amounts over a long period of time. This has its own issues, though.
 
I'm still not clear how even a well-written trust could prevent B from giving money to A. Could the trustee demand to see all bank statements from B, and ask for documentation of what B did with all transfers and withdrawals, and if that is not complied with, the trust does not distribute any money to B? Even if that's legal, I would think it would have to be a ridiculous amount of money to convince someone who is in a comfortable financial position to comply, but I'm mostly just curious about the practicalities.

Once the money is B's, it is B's. However if B is getting a limited yearly stipend, how motivated would B be to "give" money to a sibling earning significantly more than she does? (It would be different if A were destitute.)
 
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