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Old 05-17-2020, 07:27 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by DAYDREAMER View Post
I just checked with my Bluecross/Blueshield health insurance, and found that they do cover my injuries if caused by auto accident, and standard deductibles apply. Since collision insurance will pay for my crashed car regardless of fault, I dropped UIM. Still trying to figure out if I want to keep Personal injury protection for riders in my car. I don't know anybody that doesn't have health insurance. Also, kind of an introvert, so seldom have passengers besides wife.

Something to think about; being sued. An insurance company has a fiduciary responsibility for their client to settle any law suit brought against them that is covered by insurance. Here's my story how that plays out;
A woman once had a damaged car that was throwing off sparks. The sparks set off a wildland fire that burned down my home. Her policy covered up to $50,000 for the damage. She was arrested and a judge awarded me criminal restitution for over $650,000. The insurance company would not pay me the $50,000 it agreed it did owe me based on their client's policy unless I signed off that ALL their client's debt was satisfied by doing so. I researched and sure enough; an insurance company has the obligation to their client to settle the matter and until they do, they have an open case and can't pay off until they do. I've briefly described the situation, but that's it in a nut shell. It turned out that the insurance company only needed me to sign off that I was satisfied civilly, not criminally. They were only obliged to ensure I would not pursue a civil case against their client for any outstanding losses above $50,000. I had no need to sue in civil court as I already had a criminal restitution order as part of her sentencing. In my state, the Franchise Tax Board keeps track of resident's income on their taxes and restitution orders from judges and will confiscate any monies that they harbor or gain that is above a living income and send it to me. I get checks every once in a while from the state's Victim Advocate's office. Small sums that don't add up to squat, but still, if she were ever to come into an inheritance, win the lottery, etc., the state would know and would collect.

The point is; no one knows what may happen to you or by you. That's why we have insurance. The bonus is the legal protection that policy also provides to settle any claims that would be covered, even in part, by the insurance company. That has value!
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:53 PM   #22
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I never understood Uninsured and Underinsured much because you are insuring the other guy.
No you are insuring yourself against the possibility that the other guy who hits you has no insurance or too little to pay for your costs.

It does not pay the other guy for anything.

We would not need it as much, if low limits for insurance were raised to high levels. It would still be needed if someone drove without a license or stole a car and drove it into you.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:12 PM   #23
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No you are insuring yourself against the possibility that the other guy who hits you has no insurance or too little to pay for your costs.

It does not pay the other guy for anything.

We would not need it as much, if low limits for insurance were raised to high levels. It would still be needed if someone drove without a license or stole a car and drove it into you.


I had to use my underinsured insurance when my car was totaled and the guy who hit me only had $10000 insurance to cover a $15000 totaled vehicle.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:47 PM   #24
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Something to think about; being sued. An insurance company has a fiduciary responsibility for their client to settle any law suit brought against them that is covered by insurance. Here's my story how that plays out;
A woman once had a damaged car that was throwing off sparks. The sparks set off a wildland fire that burned down my home. Her policy covered up to $50,000 for the damage. She was arrested and a judge awarded me criminal restitution for over $650,000. The insurance company would not pay me the $50,000 it agreed it did owe me based on their client's policy unless I signed off that ALL their client's debt was satisfied by doing so. I researched and sure enough; an insurance company has the obligation to their client to settle the matter and until they do, they have an open case and can't pay off until they do. I've briefly described the situation, but that's it in a nut shell. It turned out that the insurance company only needed me to sign off that I was satisfied civilly, not criminally. They were only obliged to ensure I would not pursue a civil case against their client for any outstanding losses above $50,000. I had no need to sue in civil court as I already had a criminal restitution order as part of her sentencing. In my state, the Franchise Tax Board keeps track of resident's income on their taxes and restitution orders from judges and will confiscate any monies that they harbor or gain that is above a living income and send it to me. I get checks every once in a while from the state's Victim Advocate's office. Small sums that don't add up to squat, but still, if she were ever to come into an inheritance, win the lottery, etc., the state would know and would collect.

The point is; no one knows what may happen to you or by you. That's why we have insurance. The bonus is the legal protection that policy also provides to settle any claims that would be covered, even in part, by the insurance company. That has value!
How about your home owners policy did that make you whole?
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:03 PM   #25
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Something to think about; being sued. An insurance company has a fiduciary responsibility for their client to settle any law suit brought against them that is covered by insurance. Here's my story how that plays out;
A woman once had a damaged car that was throwing off sparks. The sparks set off a wildland fire that burned down my home. Her policy covered up to $50,000 for the damage. She was arrested and a judge awarded me criminal restitution for over $650,000. The insurance company would not pay me the $50,000 it agreed it did owe me based on their client's policy unless I signed off that ALL their client's debt was satisfied by doing so. I researched and sure enough; an insurance company has the obligation to their client to settle the matter and until they do, they have an open case and can't pay off until they do. I've briefly described the situation, but that's it in a nut shell. It turned out that the insurance company only needed me to sign off that I was satisfied civilly, not criminally. They were only obliged to ensure I would not pursue a civil case against their client for any outstanding losses above $50,000. I had no need to sue in civil court as I already had a criminal restitution order as part of her sentencing. In my state, the Franchise Tax Board keeps track of resident's income on their taxes and restitution orders from judges and will confiscate any monies that they harbor or gain that is above a living income and send it to me. I get checks every once in a while from the state's Victim Advocate's office. Small sums that don't add up to squat, but still, if she were ever to come into an inheritance, win the lottery, etc., the state would know and would collect.

The point is; no one knows what may happen to you or by you. That's why we have insurance. The bonus is the legal protection that policy also provides to settle any claims that would be covered, even in part, by the insurance company. That has value!
Thank you for more food for thought! I'm trying to optimize car insurance cost and not be double insured, but your described scenario definitely describes having adequate liability insurance. Most responsible insured people do not carry enough liability insurance to cover the above scenario, that's for sure! As far as UIM goes, in Washington state, the Washington supreme court ruled in favor of insurance companies that they are allowed to be the adversary not the fiduciary in UIM claims.
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Old 05-18-2020, 12:30 AM   #26
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How about your home owners policy did that make you whole?

Well, yes, in a way. Up to the limits of the policy. For example; my policy covered landscaping at 10% of the home's value. That's $10,000 for every $100,000 of home-only value. I have 5 acres of woods/forest. An oak tree is valued at $500 say. I lost 100 of 'em. Right there I'm over the policy limit. Just to clear the dead trees, including their root balls, cost more than that. It's hilly, so the soil was destabilized after removal. I had to have a soil engineer come in to verify the soil was restored to at least 95% of original compaction. So just downing the dead trees, removing the rootballs, hauling away and then recompacting the soil, certified by an engineer, cost me almost twice what the insurance coverage was. This does not replace a single tree, just cleans things up so I can at least start to build by getting a building permit.

Many more examples, but that should give you an idea.
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Old 05-18-2020, 12:38 AM   #27
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Thank you for more food for thought! I'm trying to optimize car insurance cost and not be double insured, but your described scenario definitely describes having adequate liability insurance. Most responsible insured people do not carry enough liability insurance to cover the above scenario, that's for sure! As far as UIM goes, in Washington state, the Washington supreme court ruled in favor of insurance companies that they are allowed to be the adversary not the fiduciary in UIM claims.

I have a million dollar liability policy just for such risk. In order to get it, I had to have half a mill on the cars. So the umbrella is for the second half mill.



BUT...
Insurance covers accidents. What if it wasn't an accident? What if it was a crime? In my case, the woman with the damaged car was fleeing an auto accident; hit-n-run. The fire to my home was charged and convicted as arson of an occupied building. Her insurance shouldn't have paid a dime. Insurance companies do not pay off for criminals who commit crimes. Only for accidents.

So, if the other driver is committing a crime, maybe their insurance won't pay off. I don't know how that works; at what level. Does running a red light constitute a crime that the driver willfully committed so their insurance isn't obliged to pay victims because it wasn't an accident? Makes me scared enough to be sure I'm insured for my loss from others no matter what the circumstances.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:10 PM   #28
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We are just going through this process. Just got the kids off the insurance and were reviewing our policies. Our agent told us to increase the property damage part of the policy to $100k (from $50k). He said lots of cars now cost more than $50k so if you are in an accident with multiple cars, the $50k would not be enough.
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Uninsured/Uninsured Motorists Coverage
Old 05-22-2020, 05:43 PM   #29
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Uninsured/Uninsured Motorists Coverage

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Originally Posted by FANOFJESUS View Post
These are the only things he can change with the Umbrella. With health insurance are these three needed?

Uninsured Motorist Bodily Injury
$250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident

Underinsured Motorist Bodily Injury
$250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident

Medical Payments
$10,000 per accident
In many states, buying at least a minimum limit for Uninsured and/or Underinsured Motorists coverage is mandatory with no ability to opt out. I also suggest this person shop around rather than reduce the coverage.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:44 PM   #30
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As my net worth went up I started wondering whether I should raise my insurance coverages, not lower them. I reasoned that I had become a bigger target than I used to be. When I didn’t have much, I probably wasn’t very interesting to ambulance chasing attorneys. But now I might be. That is when got my first umbrella policy. I did raise my deductibles a lot figuring I could afford the occasional deer hit, smaller accident that I probably wouldn’t turn in to insurance, etc. Raising the deductibles probably offset the higher limits on all my other coverages. I also started acquiring coverages for toys (musical instruments) that I had never needed before. Because I can now afford some pretty expensive toys, and the coverage is really cheap in relation to the cost of vintage bluegrass instruments.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by FANOFJESUS View Post
These are the only things he can change with the Umbrella. With health insurance are these three needed?

Uninsured Motorist Bodily Injury
$250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident

Underinsured Motorist Bodily Injury
$250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident

Medical Payments
$10,000 per accident
If you have insurance through your auto policy, might you have the opportunity to direct your care better than if you have to rely on your health insurance to approve treatments or therapies or the location at which you choose to get those treatments or therapies?
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:03 PM   #32
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In my state, uninsured and underinsured are optional, not mandatory. But you always want to protect yourself to the same extent that you protect others. Liability insurance protects others from your negligence and protects you from their claims. UM/UIM protects you from the negligence of others who didn't have the foresight to buy insurance at the levels you do.

The declarations page tells you how much each component of insurance costs for each vehicle. The highest is nearly always collision and comprehensive for damage to the vehicle.

The best way to save on car insurance: get rid of the BMW and buy a low-mileage used car that is at least ten years old.
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Old 05-23-2020, 05:55 PM   #33
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Still with same insurer for last 6 years. Home Car. Still think its wise to shop. I shop mine every 2 years. I don't pay the most, and I don't pay the least. For the few claims they paid immediately and no funny games with raising rates etc. Feeling confident in your insurer, is sometimes worth a little more vs a maximized skin to the bones policy. You get what you pay for.
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Old Yesterday, 07:55 AM   #34
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After 15 years of having at least 1 kid on my insurance, we're finally down to just DW and I. Yay! I've got to start looking at our remaining coverages (2 cars, Homeowners, Umbrella) and see if we can get a better deal somewhere else. Been with State Farm for 4 decades. Probably should have done it sooner.

Not really sure what UM does in my state. I didn't have it for years, but it's cheap and you just have to get it on one car to be effective on the other cars. More research is needed.
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Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM   #35
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Never, Never, Never drop Uninsured/under insured insurance from your policy! This is one of the most important coverages. There are so many illegals and bums in this country that are not insured if you get hurt you have no one to recover damages from. I have had know personally of several people here in AZ that when a car hit them the occupants just got out and ran, later to find out the car was either stolen or uninsured by illegals!
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Old Yesterday, 08:20 AM   #36
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As a follow up most insurance in a various states only require $15,000.00 policy to get insurance to meet the requirements. Plus many states a policy is required to get the auto registered or a drivers license, but the insurance companies are only required to sell you a policy for 1 month to make you legal. What happens is that the illegals or bums in your state will purchase a one month policy and let it run out. The under insured part of the policy covers you form the people who only purchase the minimum amount of insurance required. Auto now days cost 25,000.00 and above.
Third note I believe 250,000 is a minimum amount for someone with a 1 million net worth. We had someone from our church (he was 87) pull out in front of a tractor-trailer he go killed and totaled the tractor-trailer. A $250,000.00 policy would not cover his accident his wife was left with nothing, and a lot of legal bills.
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Old Yesterday, 08:36 AM   #37
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Never, Never, Never drop Uninsured/under insured insurance from your policy! This is one of the most important coverages. There are so many illegals and bums in this country that are not insured if you get hurt you have no one to recover damages from. I have had know personally of several people here in AZ that when a car hit them the occupants just got out and ran, later to find out the car was either stolen or uninsured by illegals!
In my state, UM only covers injuries - not cars. So, I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it for someone that already has good medical coverage. I suppose it might cover deductibles, co-pays, co-insurance - so I could see maybe a few grand of benefit. I don't work, so there's no lost wages. I guess it would also cover pain and suffering. Am I missing anything?
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Old Yesterday, 08:51 AM   #38
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No you are insuring yourself against the possibility that the other guy who hits you has no insurance or too little to pay for your costs.

It does not pay the other guy for anything.

We would not need it as much, if low limits for insurance were raised to high levels. It would still be needed if someone drove without a license or stole a car and drove it into you.
In the '70s, before uninsured coverage, my car got totaled by some loser who was uninsured. Well, actually I was the loser because I never saw a dime from the bum. He lost his license for nonpayment, but I doubt that affected his behavior much.
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Old Yesterday, 09:54 AM   #39
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@fanofjesus, IMO this is pretty crazy. You have advice from posters with completely unknown insurance expertise and who live in states probably different than yours. You also have irrelevant anecdotes. At best that is a recipe for confusion. At worst a recipe that could lead you to make a major mistake.

Please, please, consult at least a couple of independent insurance agents as well as the agent who now has the business. They will know insurance and they will know your state laws. They may also be able to reduce your brother's insurance bill via shopping the coverage and/or changing the amounts of coverage. Your current agent will have a significantly renewed attention to your needs as soon as he/she becomes aware that you are shopping the business. See my post #15.
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Old Yesterday, 10:47 AM   #40
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@fanofjesus, IMO this is pretty crazy. You have advice from posters with completely unknown insurance expertise and who live in states probably different than yours. You also have irrelevant anecdotes. At best that is a recipe for confusion. At worst a recipe that could lead you to make a major mistake.

Please, please, consult at least a couple of independent insurance agents as well as the agent who now has the business. They will know insurance and they will know your state laws. They may also be able to reduce your brother's insurance bill via shopping the coverage and/or changing the amounts of coverage. Your current agent will have a significantly renewed attention to your needs as soon as he/she becomes aware that you are shopping the business. See my post #15.
If everyone comments on the subject in such a straight forward and direct way, the threads will be a lot shorter and less entertaining
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