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Old 05-30-2020, 01:24 PM   #141
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Thank God we have someone who will be a champion for big business. Finally, they can dry their tears and stop trembling in the corner.
You misunderstand. This is about helping the little guy. And about what's right, regardless of who is the recipient.

Taxing corporations hurts the little guy. Many of the same people who are in favor of a progressive rate income tax want to see more corporate taxation. But that corp tax becomes part of the product cost, and everyone pays the same price at the cash register, rich or poor - it's a flat tax on the consumer.

A lower/zero corp tax also makes US companies more competitive, which means more jobs, for all, the little guy too.

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Old 05-30-2020, 01:45 PM   #142
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You misunderstand. This is about helping the little guy. And about what's right, regardless of who is the recipient.

Taxing corporations hurts the little guy. Many of the same people who are in favor of a progressive rate income tax want to see more corporate taxation. But that corp tax becomes part of the product cost, and everyone pays the same price at the cash register, rich or poor - it's a flat tax on the consumer.

A lower/zero corp tax also makes US companies more competitive, which means more jobs, for all, the little guy too.

-ERD50
But doesn't that assume that lowering corporate tax will result in lower prices and better jobs/wages? Didn't we just recently lower the corporate tax rates and see exactly that....not happen?
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:46 AM   #143
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But doesn't that assume that lowering corporate tax will result in lower prices and better jobs/wages? Didn't we just recently lower the corporate tax rates and see exactly that....not happen?
A lower corporate tax rate will also help a company's profits, which will help its investors in the form of higher stock prices and higher stock dividends. The investors and top management will do well, not necessarily the employees or consumers.
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Old 05-31-2020, 10:55 AM   #144
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But doesn't that assume that lowering corporate tax will result in lower prices and better jobs/wages? Didn't we just recently lower the corporate tax rates and see exactly that....not happen?
You posed it as question ("Didn't we"?). Can you present some evidence to turn it into an assertion?

It can also be difficult to separate one cause/effect from others in the marketplace. There's always a lot going on.

But if corporations have such power, why is gas not still $5.00/gallon? Did they forget they are supposed to keep it as profits when their cost of production goes down? That's a lot of money left on the table - maybe it really doesn't work that way?

It sure makes sense to me that in a competitive market, one supplier will cut their price if their costs go down, to attract more business and therefore make more money overall (same profit amount at the lower price with more volume). Others will follow, or they lose volume (and profits) to their competitor. So the "greedy" will cut prices.

Again, assuming a competitive market (which most are). If the market isn't competitive, it should be looked into. I was all in favor of breaking up Microsoft when they were in court (and before), as they were clearly using their dominance on one area to shut out competition in others. Not good for the consumer.

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Old 05-31-2020, 12:59 PM   #145
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Try making sense of tax laws related to MLP taxation (K-1's, etc). I guarantee you there isn't anyone in the IRS who has a clue either.
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:03 PM   #146
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Yes, but we don't have to pay $1000 for a loaf of bread so some competition does exist.
Bad example. We don't have $1000 a loaf bread because no one will pay that much. Collusion among producers does not change the demand curve. As the price of a product goes up, people will demand less of it. Eventually, they will demand none of it if the price is too high. Then no one makes any money.

What price fixing and market allocation actually do is shift the supply curve up and to the left, so that the market clearing price is higher and the amount supplied is lower than it would be in a competitive market. So, for example, in the presence of collusive behavior, you might expect to see a loaf of bread cost $3.50 rather than $3.00. But you won't see a $1000 loaf.

In simple terms, the goal is to squeeze out as many golden eggs as you can without killing the goose.
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:31 PM   #147
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In simple terms, the goal is to squeeze out as many golden eggs as you can without killing the goose.
People who perceive "all business is bad" will see collusion where it doesn't exist. People who perceive "all business is good" will overlook collusion where it does exist.

As with much in life, reality is somewhere in between.

One person may opine "if corporate taxes are eliminated, prices will drop." Another may opine "if corporate taxes are eliminated, prices will not drop." I lean toward the former, but have little expectation that we will have a chance to test these competing theories.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:04 PM   #148
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But doesn't that assume that lowering corporate tax will result in lower prices and better jobs/wages? Didn't we just recently lower the corporate tax rates and see exactly that....not happen?
+1

My former Mega publicly announced that 100% of the benefit from the TCJA would go to shareholders in the form of increased dividends and stock buy-backs. From what I've read, their competitors did the same.

No price drop for customers. No increased wages for workers. No new capital expenditures. No new jobs. No increase in R&D. 100% passed on to shareholders.

This was not just my old Mega and their competitors, which I still follow closely. In May of 2019, the Congressional Research Service published an analysis of the effects of the TCJA, which confirmed what everybody already knew...

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Much of these funds, the data indicate, has been used for a record-breaking amount of stock buybacks, with $1 trillion announced by the end of 2018.
It's hard for me to understand how that helped "the little guy."
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Old 05-31-2020, 04:55 PM   #149
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So we should applaud politicians for increasing corporate taxes because if they lowered them the corporations would not lower their prices. Well they definitely won’t if we don’t try, and a tax system that is honest is another winner! IMHO
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