I hate Genworth

[ProGolferWannabe]

Just got my annual bill and notification of premium increase for my LTC policy from the bastards at Genworth today. I’ve had the policy for 17 years, and for the past 7 years or so, they have been either increasing the policy and/or giving me the option to reduce benefits to offset the premium increases. The original policy was $1800 per year. The increase this year was 34% going from $3087 per year to $4137 per year. Of course there are no guarantees that they won’t continue to increase rates.

I understood that premium increase were possible when I bought the policy…fair enough…I agreed to absorb that risk, but the policy has increased 129% in price since I purchased it 17 years ago and my elimination period went from 180 days to 365 days. These were not the kind of increases I had expected. Live and learn I guess.

It is pretty clear that they are encouraging me (and all the other policy holders in the group) to drop the coverage. I would consider keeping it even with the price increase just to piss them off (ha) but I can only afford so many 34% annual increases. If I drop the policy, the good people at Genworth will provide me with the long term care coverage in the amount of $39,000 should I need it….the value of the premiums I paid in.

I truly hate the people at Genworth.

 

[mathjak107]

We just paid our gensworth bill and it is still the same as we paid 5 years ago .

Do you know anything that didn’t at least double the last 17 years …especially healthcare related stuff which went up more than inflation.

Also you were covered for 17 years , no different then your auto insurance or home insurance …..

You are paying for coverage now as well .

My buddy was painting , fell off a ladder and broke his wrist and hip .

During hip surgery he had a massive stroke at age 55 .

He is paralyzed and in a home ..he devastated his family financially.

So you paid for coverage and had coverage the last 17 years as well

 

[Spock]

Dad's Transamerica LTC policy is now up to over $6400 per year.
He's also getting reimbursed ~$3500/month on his assisted living claims.

 

[rothlev]

Dad's Transamerica LTC policy is now up to over $6400 per year.
He's also getting reimbursed ~$3500/month on his assisted living claims.

I thought once you started using the policy you no long paid the premiums?

 

[Koolau]

Just got my annual bill and notification of premium increase for my LTC policy from the bastards at Genworth today. I’ve had the policy for 17 years, and for the past 7 years or so, they have been either increasing the policy and/or giving me the option to reduce benefits to offset the premium increases. The original policy was $1800 per year. The increase this year was 34% going from $3087 per year to $4137 per year. Of course there are no guarantees that they won’t continue to increase rates.

I understood that premium increase were possible when I bought the policy…fair enough…I agreed to absorb that risk, but the policy has increased 129% in price since I purchased it 17 years ago and my elimination period went from 180 days to 365 days. These were not the kind of increases I had expected. Live and learn I guess.

It is pretty clear that they are encouraging me (and all the other policy holders in the group) to drop the coverage. I would consider keeping it even with the price increase just to piss them off (ha) but I can only afford so many 34% annual increases. If I drop the policy, the good people at Genworth will provide me with the long term care coverage in the amount of $39,000 should I need it….the value of the premiums I paid in.

I truly hate the people at Genworth.

I'm not an apologist for the LTC ins companies. But keep in mind Genworth, et. Al have to get their rate increase approved by the relevant regulators - so apparently the regulators agree that Genworth needs the rate increase to stay in business.

Apparently, the problem all the LTC companies had was that folks kept the insurance instead of dropping it after paying for many years. They probably know to the .01% how many folks will end up in the nursing home. But they couldn't model how may people would drop the coverage without using it.

So, best revenge, get old and sick and use the coverage!

Just kidding! I hope your entire pot of premiums is wasted because you don't need it. Aloha

 

[RetiredHappy]

I have my Genworth LTCI policy for 13 years and I finally received the first increase notification last month. My policy pays $9K per month currently for 5 years at maximum level, at 3% compounded increase each year. Increase was for 10%, with my premiums going up from $1,166.52 to $1,283.17. This increase is small potatoes and I am sure I will see future increases.

 

[Dtail]

I thought once you started using the policy you no long paid the premiums?

With some policies that is true and others not.
My dad had 2 policies. Genworth stopped the premiums, but Riversource did not.

 

[friar1610]

I have the Federally-sponsored LTC plan run by a subsidiary of John Hancock for me and my wife. We just got a notice that we can expect an increase in 2023. I shudder to think how much it might be.

 

[Koolau]

My policy - not Genworth - has had two increases in 24 years. In total, I think the increase is about 1/3. I haven't had to reduce any of my coverage. YMMV

 

[ProGolferWannabe]

I have my Genworth LTCI policy for 13 years and I finally received the first increase notification last month. My policy pays $9K per month currently for 5 years at maximum level, at 3% compounded increase each year. Increase was for 10%, with my premiums going up from $1,166.52 to $1,283.17. This increase is small potatoes and I am sure I will see future increases.

Just as a point of comparison, ours is as follows:

(1) benefit payments currently are about $10,200 per month
(2) 5% compounded increase each year
(3) Max payout for 8 years….joint policy with wife. If I use 1 year, she has 7 years left.
(4) 2021 Premium: $3087; Proposed 2022 Premium: $4137

 

[RobbieB]

And when you need benefits, hire an expert to file and keep up with their "additional info needed" requests which are designed to difficult for a reason.

 

[Graybeard]

I have 2 LTC policies. For many years no rate increases but they started about 6 years ago and almost every year there is another increase. Upping the elimination period from 180 to 365 days is brutal! That isn't something I have seen and hope I don't. These policies all vary from state to state and company to company so comparing our policies is pretty much apples to oranges other than they increased the rate by X% just to show how much they are rising.

 

[rk911]

my Mutual of Omaha LTC policy has been steady for the last 6-years. but now over the next 3-years i'm looking at a ~70% increase. my wife cannot get LTC coverage so the plan was to use about $1m of our net worth to cover her augmented by some of my LTC benefits (a nice feature of my policy) and my policy would cover me.

our NW now has more than doubled in the last year due to a substanial inheritence so we are considering dropping my LTC policy and fly without a net. if we do that we will set aside about $1.5m in a separate brokerage account invested very conservatively but still with some growth potential and will designate that as our own "LTC Fund". we'll increase the funding of that account as we go forward. the remainder of our NW will be available if needed but we have other plans for that.

but i'm still a bit nervous about dropping my policy mostly because of the seemingly worsening societal problems in the US. i may carry my policy one more year (~23% increase, about $800) just to see how things shape up.

 

[Luvtoride]

And when you need benefits, hire an expert to file and keep up with their "additional info needed" requests which are designed to difficult for a reason.

My mom had Genworth LTC insurance before she passed away. I handled filing the claims each month and they were very simple and easy to deal with. About every 6 months she had a “requalification” interview with a nurse to make sure she still needed the coverage. That was never an issue either.

 

[Dash man]

Our group John Hancock policies total about $6500/yr, but the only increases come every three years with an inflation adjustment. We each have about five years of coverage for LTC and a bit longer if assisted living or home care is used. I hope we don’t need it, but I’m glad we have it.

 

[REWahoo]

My LTCi story, from a May 2020 thread. Our policies are not with Genworth:

DW and I have LTCI policies and the annual premiums are due on the 10th. We were notified in January of yet another rate increase, this time 64%. This is the third increase in premiums in the last seven years, resulting in rates 220% above where they started.

Since the rates were very reasonable when we took out the policies 20+ years ago, I had initially decided to hold my nose and pay up. But the Covid-19 situation has caused me to re-think my decision and go another route. We have the option of removing the automatic 5% benefit increase rider (compounded annually) from the policy, thus freezing the benefit amount at the current level. This will drop the premium by a substantial 70%, back to an amount close to what we were originally paying. I'm going to take this option.

We have reached the point we can likely self-insure, so this seemed to be a reasonable decision.

 

[Brat]

My husband and I shopped for LTC insurance in 1989. We purchased a paid-up 10 years policy from Allianz, costing $45,500 total. 5% compounded benefit, currently pays $430/day, 30-day qualification, lifetime benefit. The policy is no longer available.

If that premium was invested we could likely self-insure today but DH has already booked his 30-day qualification period and the women on both sides needed care for years before passing. At the very least we can fund the care we will likely need without breaking us financially.

The real problem is finding a facility that is worth their fees (I was a LTC Ombudsman).

In some ways living on the brink of poverty where one qualifies for Medicaid is as good as a marginal LTC policy if skilled nursing is your lot in life. Not a good choice but at least you won't be living in a tent on the curb.

 

[PandaBear]

We bought our LTC back in 1998 when I was 36 and dh 40. I worked long enough in rehab to be really worried about one of us being incapacitated by a stroke or accident and needing LTC for many years.. At that point we had a 6, 4 and 1 year old.
So we bought LTC at that time.

Later in 2010, we were informed of a policy increase. We were knee deep in Catholic school tuition and college costs were starting for our first born. We chose the option that froze our premium as well as benefits. So we pay about $2100 yearly for two policies that have a 90 day elimination period, pay $200 per day for a facility or at home care (including paying a family member for care), so about 6k per month, with an unlimited lifetime benefit.

I obviously don't know if having that low of a benefit will end up being an issue or not. My dh's mom used LTC benefits about 5 years, his dad not at all. My dad also never used the benefits and my mom is still alive (at 85) and doing okay. I tend to assume that the longer you live, the likelihood of a really long LTC stay reduces.

In my mind, we are kind of hedging our bets....we have some coverage but not enough. Did we blow it by freezing our benefits? I don't know. We made the best decisions we could at the time we made them. Just having retired, I am learning I have to make peace with the fact that I am having to make many decisions the best I could, not knowing what the future holds. That's all we can do.

 

[mathjak107]

We were lucky enough to get a gensworth New York State partnership plan for long term care .

Although costly it is a fabulous deal .

We can go to any private home and insurance will cover 3 years ..then a special version of medicaid will continue to pay all bills .

All assets are 100% protected with no look back ,spend down , or limits on the stay at home spouse .

The last few years you can’t get them anymore


This is now on the website
IMPORTANT: As of January 1, 2021, there are no insurance companies currently offering new policy purchases of Partnership qualified products in New York State. This means that there are no new Partnership policies available for purchase at this time. This does not affect current, active insureds who are Partnership qualified.

 

[bobbyr]

My mom had Genworth LTC insurance before she passed away. I handled filing the claims each month and they were very simple and easy to deal with. About every 6 months she had a “requalification” interview with a nurse to make sure she still needed the coverage. That was never an issue either.

exact same situation here, except our interviews have been yearly

 

[easysurfer]

I decided to go the hybrid LTC policy route last year. May not even be as sound financially as the heads you pay more, tails you get less coverage traditional LTC premium increase way. The traditional was just too humiliating making me feel like I got a raw deal. Wore me down to the point of crying uncle.

 

[mathjak107]

Hybrids are the most expensive way to get coverage …

Anytime a product is asked to do something it isn’t supposed to it usually is very costly .

For our coverage they wanted almost 400k to be plunked down in a policy ..

400k invested for the long term easily pays our premiums while still growing and we have an actual Ltc policy that is inflation adjusted not a life insurance policy


https://www.kitces.com/blog/is-the-...-annuityltc-insurance-policies-just-a-mirage/

https://money.com/is-hybrid-life-and-long-term-insurance-worth-buying/

 

[mathjak107]

I was big on self insuring .

Until a bunch of top notch pros explained to me why I don’t want to do that .

For one thing many people do not segregate the insurance money ….they leave it all invested in one big pile ..

Then they base a retirement draw on that total value ….

The problem is a safe withdrawal rate assumes you can blow right threw that pile of dough and have a buck left towards the end …..

So you cannot base a draw on it .

In fact if you are self insuring you need to think like an insurer .

That means being fully funded day one and invested in safe non risky assets as you don’t know when you will need it .

My co worker fell off a ladder painting and broke his hip at 55 …

He had a paralyzing stroke during hip surgery…

He left his family impoverished..


Our estate attorney said the biggest bulk of his clients are the self insurers….

The stay at home spouse realizes now that one of them needs care the stay and the stay at home spouse realizes they can be impoverished all to easy and goes in to panic mode .

The advice we got when we did the money magazine challenge when their team of pros evaluated my plans was just get proper ltc insurance and leave the money fully invested as is part of the income generation pool and for a small percentage of the gains just pay the premium.

They were right and I was wrong ….so today we have a great ltc plan and yes , it’s with genworth

 

[Taxman59]

Back in 2001, at w*rk, the 4 members of the upper management were offered a LTC policy. I chose to get the 10 pay plan $150 per day no lifetime limit policy inflation rider for about $5500 annually for DW and me. The others chose the annual pay for about $100 per month for life (or until benefits start). When I made the 10th payment, the increases had pushed me to $8500 per year. The annual pay were up to nearly $300 per month. Along with the statement that I had made the last premium payment, was the notice that premiums were increasing across the board ~50%. I confirmed with the Home office of the Carrier that my plan was fully paid-up and that the increase would apply to my 11th year premium - 50% of $0 is $0!! Last I heard from the others, the premium is now about $800 per month and they are pushing lifetime caps. Our daily benefit is now north of $400 per day each with the benefit growing at 3% per year!
Short term, it was very pricey. Looking back, it was the best deal I could have made for DW and me

 

[Chuckanut]

Here in Washington state we have a requirement to purchase LTC insurance via a state plan, though it is currently suspended due to certain 'controversies'.

One pays a payroll tax of 0.58% on earnings. Below are the benefits:

The fund ensures taxpayers who have contributed for 10 years receive $36,500 over their lifetime to help pay for long-term care needs, like in-home care, nursing home care, hearing aids, trained support for caregivers, home-delivered meals, memory care, necessary home renovations and many other services, according to the WA Cares Fund website.