Useful Links

Rich_by_the_Bay · 06-13-2007, 06:20 PM

Where would you go to get the answer to these questions regarding money in the total market (or S&P 500) today, dividends reinvested, and left alone for 5 years based on historic returns:

What was the worst total return over 5 consecutive yrs?
What was the best total return over 5 consecutive yrs?
What was the average total return over 5 consecutive yrs?
What is the probability the investment will actually have lost real value after 5 yrs?

I hear such numbers thrown around, but don't know where to get or verify them. In my case it's good stuff to know, since my FIRE plan includes letting my nest egg sit for 5 years untouched while I go part-time and eat what I kill.

Feel free to provide answers, but I'd also love to know where you got them.

MasterBlaster · 06-13-2007, 06:26 PM

the chart above is from the website AllFinancialMatters » Blog Archive » S&P 500 Rolling Period Total Real Returns

It looks like The worst 5-year returns were on the order of -35-40% (based on my Mark I eyeball pick) during the depression and during the 70's malaise.

The best return was on the order of 220% during the late 90's.

The average total return over the 5 year spans should be the average total return of the S&P500 which is on the order of 11-12% (or ~8-9 % after inflation).

Counting from the chart there were 19 5-year periods which lost money out of 77 total. Therefore the S&P lost money (using total return) 19/77 ==> around 25% of the time (including dividends and after inflation effects are accounted for).

Now do I get a balloon or something ?

LOL! · 06-13-2007, 06:28 PM

Have you looked at
Bogleheads :: View Forum - Investing and Personal Finance

The folks there are throwing around that kind of data all the time.
See for example:
Bogleheads :: View topic - Spreadsheet for backtesting (includes TrevH's data)

MasterBlaster · 06-13-2007, 06:54 PM

In my mind, since our retirement spans periods much greater than 5 years the longer period chart from the same source is more interesting.

note that over 20 year spans the market never loses money, however over spans like the 70's malaise and over the depression there is hardly any real growth. That's where the 4% SWR comes in. It's to rescue you during hard times. From other sources if you were to be lucky and retire into a growing market then your SWR can be significantly higher. Based on luck (from other references) you may be able to extract as much as 8-10 percent (or even more) safely from your nestegg if you retire just as the markets are taking off.

Rich_by_the_Bay · 06-13-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterBlaster

Now do I get a balloon or something ?

I'm impressed big time. No balloon, but... wow. Thanks.

haha · 06-13-2007, 07:10 PM

There is an entire book-Triumph of the Optimists- devoted to this and similar questions. Authors are a group of British academics. THE lead author is Elroy Dimson.

Ha

JLP · 06-13-2007, 08:45 PM

Thanks for the links.

For those of you checking out this information, you might be interested in two posts I did a couple of months ago:

S&P 500 Fun Facts

and...

More S&P 500 Index Stats

The last post actually has several PDFs of information I used when putting the post together.

Sam · 06-13-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterBlaster

What a great perspective of the stock market! Thanks.

kcowan · 06-14-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

What a great perspective of the stock market! Thanks.

OK so when do we sell? The years have been saying to sell since 2004. Yet we have all gained big time since then.

The pessimists are being killed by the markets!

Sam · 06-15-2007, 04:18 AM

Sell now? SP500 index is barely at the same level it was 7 years ago.

2B · 06-15-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa

In my case it's good stuff to know, since my FIRE plan includes letting my nest egg sit for 5 years untouched while I go part-time and eat what I kill.

I can only be a bit concerned when a doctor makes this kind of a statement.