|
I Wonder if Carl Reads Bogle and Bernstein
06-08-2008, 10:16 PM
|
#1
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
I Wonder if Carl Reads Bogle and Bernstein
Icahn, 72, has used a combination of guile, gall, grit and gamesmanship to get his way more often than not since he began tormenting vulnerable companies 30 years ago. The conquests helped Icahn build an estimated fortune of $14 billion after starting out on Wall Street with a $4,000 bankroll from his winnings playing poker.
Icahn's big bet on Yahoo hinges on Microsoft sale: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
06-09-2008, 07:03 PM
|
#2
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 183
|
Quote:
I Wonder if Carl Reads Bogle and Bernstein
|
Nice try, but what's your point?
In any population, there will be those who are able to succeed in investing(life, sex, work, etc) far and above their 'average' peers. There are also those who are spectacular failures. This much is predicted by raw statistics alone.
The question is not "If you believe in Bogle, how do you explain Icahn?" but rather "Why aren't there more Icahns?".
|
|
|
06-09-2008, 07:35 PM
|
#3
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
|
There are plenty of Ichans and many more lesser accomplished, but also fantastically wealthy, investors. Whether they number great enough to be more than statistical chance I can't say. What I can say is that even in games of skill, not everyone can be Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods. And as long as the iron law holds that investors as a group can earn no better then market returns, less expenses, the vast majority of us are better off indexing and letting the top 10% of investing superstars keep the market efficient for the rest of us.
|
|
|
06-09-2008, 07:36 PM
|
#4
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by innova
The question is not "If you believe in Bogle, how do you explain Icahn?" but rather "Why aren't there more Icahns?".
|
That is how you see it. I see it differently.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
06-10-2008, 11:44 AM
|
#5
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 3,506
|
People like Icahn and Buffet are not investors the way most on this board (or for that matter 99% of people) are. They are actively involved in the workings of the companies they invest in. They really should be compared to entrepreneurs rather than the typical investor in public companies.
|
|
|
06-10-2008, 03:46 PM
|
#6
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
|
BTW, it's also worth noting that for every investing genius in the market, there is at least one other person who is getting their face ripped off by said genius.
Good luck to all you part-time investors.
|
|
|
06-10-2008, 04:01 PM
|
#7
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
BTW, it's also worth noting that for every investing genius in the market, there is at least one other person who is getting their face ripped off by said genius.
|
I don't see how this follows, as many of Icahn's successes were when he took a long position, made or forced corporate restructuring, and was taken out at a higher price.
Who lost? The worst anyone did was to fail to see the value that he made manifest. They voluntarily sold to him, so they lost whatever upside he created. But since they were not short, they didn't lose, they just missed on a gain.
People who hung around, or even followed his trail, gained a lot.
I can never understand why some people take so much pleasure is asserting what "Can't be done."
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
06-10-2008, 04:09 PM
|
#8
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
I don't see how this follows, as many of Icahn's successes were when he took a long position, made or forced corporate restructuring, and was taken out at a higher price.
|
But the benchmark isn't a zero percent return . . . its the market return. Who ever sold to Icahn, Buffett, Steve Cohen, etc. etc. lost relative to the market.
You can't have outperforming investors without underperformers, that is just the law of averages. And unless you have some kind of edge, or extraordinary luck, you're more likely to fall in the later category then the former.
|
|
|
06-10-2008, 04:14 PM
|
#9
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
You can't have outperforming investors without underperformers, that is just the law of averages. And unless you have some kind of edge, or extraordinary luck, you're more likely to fall in the later category then the former.
|
Ok; thanks!
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|