I work remotely, move to LCOL?

[bj345]

Tons of insightful comments on these boards, so I wanted to see if some could help me think through my situation.

I transferred divisions within my company and can now work from anywhere. My annual salary is around 200k consulting and have about 750k in net worth. I'm currently renting in SoCal and considering relocating to Dallas for LCOL and my sister's family is there. I'd be able to take the salary with me. Here are my considerations:

Work: I manage a small team of 10, half in SoCal that I meet up with about once a week. Other half is remote, so a lot of Skype meetings. The majority of my clients are in CA, so if I move, I'd have to fly about twice a month to CA, whereas now I drive and can be home for dinner.

Family: wife (SAHM) and 3 kids (10,5,1 yo), so concerned about the college payment coming up. In an awesome school district now (one of top in CA, but uber-wealthy friends), we cannot afford to buy in the district. We were considering buying a house in another LA suburb (650-750k), but my reasoning is that if they have to switch districts anyways it doesn't matter if it's LA or TX, housing around 400k. We used to live in the upper Midwest, and wife had bouts of SADD, so LA sun was definitely a blessing. We would have to give up some of the sunny days. On the flip side, wife is a home-body, so the thought of a larger, newer home in TX is appealing and the reason we dont want to keep renting.

Taxes: a lot paid to CA, over 10K. Having SALT limited to 10K is even less incentive to have a house in CA.

Lots of considerations swirling around, and know there's no perfect world without tradeoffs. What am I missing? Early retirement would be nice, but staying in CA would probably delay that by 10 yrs.

Thanks in advance, BJ

 

[Aerides]

The thing about working remotely is that is a privilege which can be yanked at any time. Remember when Yahoo pulled back their entire remote program a few years ago?

My Mega did the same, allowing for only a few limited exceptions. Of course, when they pull that rug, there is usually an offer to either move back or take severance.

Traveling out of state twice a month with 3 kids, including a 1 year old, puts a lot of burden on your wife. Being home for dinner every night is underrated.

 

[joeea]

On the flip side, wife is a home-body, so the thought of a larger, newer home in TX is appealing and the reason we dont want to keep renting.

Do you want to live in TX? If so, move.

 

[euro]

The thing about working remotely is that is a privilege which can be yanked at any time. Remember when Yahoo pulled back their entire remote program a few years ago?

My Mega did the same, allowing for only a few limited exceptions. Of course, when they pull that rug, there is usually an offer to either move back or take severance.

Traveling out of state twice a month with 3 kids, including a 1 year old, puts a lot of burden on your wife. Being home for dinner every night is underrated.

All of That!!!

 

[Janet H]

The thing about working remotely is that is a privilege which can be yanked at any time.

other considerations:

If you work from home, you'll need a dedicated work space AND the discipline to not only begin work, but to walk away from it at the end of the day. Having your work in your house means that it's always present and can be a distraction from family and your "not work" time.

You may need better communication tools than skype to successfully telecommute. Slack, uber conference, or some other platform may be worth considering.

 

[steelyman]

Janet H makes a good point. For a while I worked exclusively from home due to the nature of a particular project (so not by choice).

It didn’t take me long to realize that if you work from home, you’re always at work. That wasn’t for me but others may have better skills than me at boundary-setting.

 

[kgtest]

I've had it threatened to be taken away...but it's never actually happened. But I agree if the culture was never there, then you might not ever see that privelege...but also if it is a privilege, certainly some board of directors could say no more remote workers, or else.


With that said, I've never worked at a place I couldn't work remote but I work in IT. This comes with unwritten rules for partial remote work...which is a lot less fuzzy then fulltime.



I couldn't do Remote fulltime for more than a year or so I think but maybe not. I know there are people who go decades without physically occupying same space as co-workers. Seems distant and irrelevant but I know it works.

 

[youbet]

It didn’t take me long to realize that if you work from home, you’re always at work.

My DS has stumbled into this. A few months ago, he started working from home on Tues and Friday. Loves saving 40% of his weekly commute. The house is empty most of the day (DW at work, kids at school) so few interruptions. He has a home office, high speed Internet, etc. Looks good....... !

But wait...... We went out for a beer over the weekend and he confided that already he finds himself drifting into the home office to fiddle with something or the other work related at times when he isn't supposed to be working. As projects go through ebbs and tides, he says he finds himself having an idea and walking from the patio into the office to pull up a print. Etc.

Related to this, he says his management now has informally increased expectations of him answering phone calls, texts or emails at odd hours to answer work related questions than when he had the very well defined separation between work and home.

And this from only two days a week at home.........

 

[steelyman]

You bet, youbet!

My epiphany came while mowing the lawn one gorgeous weekend day, something that was always pretty Zen for me.

I started thinking of a complicated portion of what I’d been doing for work, stopped mowing and went inside to the home office to follow up. The sun, in the meantime, did what it always did - it set!

I thought about that and got the message. When the precipitating situation was over I was relieved to regain work/life separation.

 

[tb001]

We did essentially this. Not in a super LCOL area, but relocated to a place we wanted to be. We only needed a couple more years of working to pull the trigger on our RE plans.

Most of my DH's company WFH, so we bought a place with space for an office and settled in. My job didn't have the same flexibility, but I was able to WFH a few days/week. With him working, we didn't need my income, so figured worst case scenario my job would say no and I'd move on.

Worked out great until DH was laid off three months after we moved. Salaries in our new location are lower and there just aren't as many jobs. Real estate also moves much slower here, so if we ever needed to make a change, it would take some time. We're still glad we moved and like the area we're in much better but financially it would have been really stressful if I weren't working.

 

[Aerides]

To add to my earlier stuff: OP, I'd suggest before you move that you try to work remotely from your current home for at least 3 months before deciding. It's very different to being in the office every day, and not everyone will adapt to it well.

Similarly, your local team might not do well without you there to pop in on all the time. And to see how your boss and colleagues react. That was the biggest challenge for me, because my boss and the others at my level were mostly in the same room. I was the voice from the phone or the screen. Not the same. You have to really change your communication style to make it work.

One of my peers, more than once, said he didn't think virtual people could ever add the same value as those who are in the office. He was talking about his team, and I let him have it, but still, many people think that even if they aren't dumb enough to say it out loud.

Carve out a space where you can close the door at the end of the day. Make it clear to your family that they can't come in. For me, I rearranged our guest bedroom and put a desk in looking out of the window. I had a camera for video-conferencing that was used quite often.

You might hate it. Socially, it's very different. Some people will discount you entirely and forget to invite you to stuff. Out of sight out of mind. You won't be the guy they tap in the hallway to bounce ideas off anymore. You have to imagine body language. You miss those out on those little discussions that occur as folks get up and leave a meeting - the little side bar agreements and changes that are organic. The walk-and-talk stuff.

You absolutely should write off the idea of any promotions while virtual, that is much harder unless your entire company has a large percentage already remote.

that's the downside stuff, but if you haven't already done virtual while you live there, it's a bigger adjustment to take on after a move.

 

[MikeWillRetire]

You seem to be doing pretty well where you are. Assuming you are around 40, having a net worth of 750k with a SAHM is not bad. Are all of you happy where you are? If so, stay.

You could always retire to a LCOL area.

 

[Octogirl]

Another thought.......does your wife like the Dallas area ? or Fort Worth ?

Have you talked to your sister or realtor about schools and neighborhoods ?


I assume you know how different the cultures are. (having lived in Dallas myself, then moving to SoCal)

And I assume you know that Dallas winters often include ice storms

Yes, LCOL in Texas but now you'll need to fly to work 2x month . Would that change ?



I work from home 2x/week and I like it but would not want to do it full time. As others have said, you miss out on the random conversations and some of the "fun" if that happens where you work.
YMMV. PLease update us

 

[Alan]

I went once with my company to Texas from Louisiana for 4 years. Problem was that my company was a Louisiana registered company and while in Texas I still had to pay Louisiana State taxes so Texas having no State income tax didn’t help. When I retired I received, and still do receive, a non-qualified pension from that pension reported on a W-2 but clearly indicated as pension payments with no payroll taxes, and I still have to pay Louisiana taxes even though we now live in England.

So, a question to the OP. Which State is his company registered in and does that State have similar rules to Louisiana?

 

[HI Bill]

One consideration is time zones. Consdier the difference between CA and TX. I work with people who are between 8 and 19 hours ahead of me...makes scheduling meetings intersting, and I sometimes come into the office to see people on 6AM conference calls!

Also, consider what happens if you're laid off, or decide to quit your company. Would it be difficult to replacing your salary in TX? Flying twice a month to TX and back would eat into both your time and money. Also, will you lose any visibility/influence/power by moving? Out of sight, out of mind, potentially! I've seen fully employed great employees slowly lose connections and work after trying to work remotely, as they eventually run out of work.

Best wishes!

 

[cathy63]

Work: I manage a small team of 10, half in SoCal that I meet up with about once a week. Other half is remote, so a lot of Skype meetings. The majority of my clients are in CA, so if I move, I'd have to fly about twice a month to CA, whereas now I drive and can be home for dinner.

Who will pay for that travel? If you expect your company to pay for it, I'd recommend getting that approved before you do anything else. They may not be interested in continuing to employ you if it suddenly costs them two trips a month.

If you're paying for it, then just know that it's no longer deductible on your taxes unless you're self-employed. Do the math to see whether the SALT in CA is actually higher than the travel expenses you'll be absorbing.

Family: wife (SAHM) and 3 kids (10,5,1 yo), so concerned about the college payment coming up. In an awesome school district now (one of top in CA, but uber-wealthy friends), we cannot afford to buy in the district. We were considering buying a house in another LA suburb (650-750k), but my reasoning is that if they have to switch districts anyways it doesn't matter if it's LA or TX

Depends on the quality of the district in TX and whether the textbooks and curricula they use are acceptable to you or not. If you're happy with public schools there, that's great, but if you have to send 3 kids to private school that'll be expensive, even in TX.

 

[bj345]

The thing about working remotely is that is a privilege which can be yanked at any time. Remember when Yahoo pulled back their entire remote program a few years ago?

My Mega did the same, allowing for only a few limited exceptions. Of course, when they pull that rug, there is usually an offer to either move back or take severance.

Traveling out of state twice a month with 3 kids, including a 1 year old, puts a lot of burden on your wife. Being home for dinner every night is underrated.

Great points. You're absolutely right about not traveling. Whenever I have to travel back to back weeks I get so worn out.

 

[bj345]

other considerations:

If you work from home, you'll need a dedicated work space AND the discipline to not only begin work, but to walk away from it at the end of the day. Having your work in your house means that it's always present and can be a distraction from family and your "not work" time.

You may need better communication tools than skype to successfully telecommute. Slack, uber conference, or some other platform may be worth considering.

Youre absolutely right. I already have difficulty having that separation, especially that I have outlook on my mobile. I now set my Outlook to stop all notifications over the weekends and on days off.

 

[bj345]

I've had it threatened to be taken away...but it's never actually happened. But I agree if the culture was never there, then you might not ever see that privelege...but also if it is a privilege, certainly some board of directors could say no more remote workers, or else.


With that said, I've never worked at a place I couldn't work remote but I work in IT. This comes with unwritten rules for partial remote work...which is a lot less fuzzy then fulltime.



I couldn't do Remote fulltime for more than a year or so I think but maybe not. I know there are people who go decades without physically occupying same space as co-workers. Seems distant and irrelevant but I know it works.

Thanks kgtest. Fortunately, we have another 100 or so consultants that work remotely as well. I guess Megacorp is being strategic and seeing what the future of work will be. I've been WfH for a while and agree it can be difficult and sometimes miss the camaraderie. Right now I'm only about 20 min from an office where I can catch up with some other employees (not on my team, but part of same corp)

 

[retired1]

My neighbors moved from LA to midwest many years ago and they constantly missed CA lifestyle. Finally they moved back few months ago.

Your kids are still young enough to not disrupt their life so moving now will make sense. Once eldest one reaches 8th grade onwards, any move will be traumatic. I think TX is great state. I'd say go for it... Move.

 

[Montecfo]

I went once with my company to Texas from Louisiana for 4 years. Problem was that my company was a Louisiana registered company and while in Texas I still had to pay Louisiana State taxes so Texas having no State income tax didn’t help. When I retired I received, and still do receive, a non-qualified pension from that pension reported on a W-2 but clearly indicated as pension payments with no payroll taxes, and I still have to pay Louisiana taxes even though we now live in England.

So, a question to the OP. Which State is his company registered in and does that State have similar rules to Louisiana?

That is not quite right as far as tax law, but practical effect is same if you can't convince company to treat you as a Texas employee.

Remote employees may cause a company to have to qualify to "do business" in that state, which is a headache.

Also to the OP, you very likely will pay property taxes over $10k on your home in Texas. But not state income taxes

 

[Markola]

If you can’t decide, maybe the KISS Principle applies.

 

[bj345]

Who will pay for that travel? If you expect your company to pay for it, I'd recommend getting that approved before you do anything else. They may not be interested in continuing to employ you if it suddenly costs them two trips a month.

If you're paying for it, then just know that it's no longer deductible on your taxes unless you're self-employed. Do the math to see whether the SALT in CA is actually higher than the travel expenses you'll be absorbing.



Depends on the quality of the district in TX and whether the textbooks and curricula they use are acceptable to you or not. If you're happy with public schools there, that's great, but if you have to send 3 kids to private school that'll be expensive, even in TX.

Great points cathy. The travel would be client reimbursed per the contract so thats not an issue. We would still send the kids to public schools. Most likely Plano, Frisco or Allen ISD. They're still top schools in TX. Since moving to CA though, we've noticed that there's a real push for kids to "reach their potential" and must say we were blown away by the grit they're instilling in kids.
One of the many tradeoffs in life

 

[bj345]

If you can’t decide, maybe the KISS Principle applies.

Thats what Dad says. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.