If FI, would you keep working for $100k a month?

[GLM]

Here is a totally separate line of thought that I have not seen addressed. I may be way off - but you might consider what, if any part of your reluctance to leave your current position could stem from not wanting to become the minor bread winner.

In the beginning of our marriage I was the major bread winner for our family. When I chose to cut back at work and raise kids the mental switch I felt that involved a loss of power & control shocked me. The move to trusting his income (and perhaps him ) over mine was a major adjustment. I had to deal with more mental issues with the income shift than I had in making the commitment to marry. (This would definitely have been mitigated however by a huge financial cushion- we had none . ) Feelings are not good or bad - they just are and acknowledging them is the first step to dealing with them .

 

[hoping]

GLM, you make an excellent point. This is compounded by the fact that I have been the one with a steady job and reliable income for 15+ years, while he has not. So that adds to the stress of the decision.

 

[Texas Proud]

GLM, you make an excellent point. This is compounded by the fact that I have been the one with a steady job and reliable income for 15+ years, while he has not. So that adds to the stress of the decision.

But... you say you are financial independent and do not need a job.... so that means having a steady job and income is irrelevant in the decision... maybe it is emotionally, but not financially...

And if he has never had a reliable income... then why not work another year and put that extra mill in savings and call it a day....

As someone pointed out, you making so much without the ability to make this easy of a decision seems strange... (well, easy financially... who knows how good your marriage is and if there is power struggles or if there is something else lurking in the back of your head... like what if we split up, could we both make it... can I get this high wages back.... all sorts of things...)...

Again... good luck...

 

[hoping]

Hi everyone. Update is that DH and I have had some heart-to-heart discussions. I am planning to stay put for a few more months while he decides how he likes new job and new location. In the meantime, I am exploring the options in new location and have lined up a few interviews. So, thanks again for all of the advice!

 

[DblDoc]

Good Luck hoping!

DD

 

[kcowan]

I would hang in until DH decides to retire. What? Are you crazy? If your job is not making you sick or putting you at risk of going to jail, why not work for a few more years for a few more million?

 

[RunningBum]

Hi everyone. Update is that DH and I have had some heart-to-heart discussions. I am planning to stay put for a few more months while he decides how he likes new job and new location. In the meantime, I am exploring the options in new location and have lined up a few interviews. So, thanks again for all of the advice!

Sounds like a great plan. He can check out housing and stuff there so you can transition your move slowly, and if he finds he doesn't like it you haven't screwed up your situation. Good luck!

 

[GatorBuzz]

Good luck and congrats on making the decision. I'm sure that is a weight lifted off your shoulders.

And when you leave don't forget to give the search committee ol' GatorBuzz's number.

 

[Nords]

Job is highly stressful, not very fulfilling; working conditions are fine; colleagues are fine. My health is fine; DH wants to keep working, at least for now; he is a doctor and will earn 200-300k per year. I could get a new job for 80-100K a year that may be a better fit for me. We have approx $4.5 million saved so far.

That is more than enough, but given my age, I am thinking a 2% SWR makes more sense. 90k probably would be enough, but when taxes are factored in, probably not. But we probably won't be withdrawing any money for at least a few more years, giving the money more time to grow.

Here's my opinion: We're either FI or we're not. If we're FI then we have no reason to put up with employment-related crap-- either fix it or leave it. Further dithering is not helping to solve the problem, but it could be helpful to worry constructively by determining whether or not the FI estimate is accurate.

As for your question, once one is FI then the dissatisfiers of work are not worth any amount of money. That sort of needless stress is life-threatening, let alone a miserable existence. Shortly after I ER'd I received a job offer that'd pay roughly $100K/year for as long as I could put up with it and would eventually conclude with a second defined-benefits pension, but I felt that family/personal time was more important than salary. Spouse gave up over three-quarters of a million in pension benefits because the stress, the family separation, and the lack of fulfilling employment was not worth the money.

I think you guys need to track your current expenses (not just eyeball them), decide how much your ER expenses are going to be, and decide whether you want to go with a >90% probability of success or fret over the <10% probability of failure. If nothing else you could annuitize your bare-bones minimum expenses and trust your portfolio to take care of the rest.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f29/handling-just-one-more-year-syndrome-20091.html

A 2% SWR makes sense compared to what-- 8%? 5%? 3%? Even the most conservative calculators tend to approach a 3% SWR asymptotically due to a lack of longer-term data. At a 2% SWR you could live off the dividends and make your heirs very happy. You're wearing a belt & suspenders while sitting in a liferaft wearing a lifejacket and a parachute.

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...etirement-calculator-hell-articles-32828.html

A leave of absence (at least six weeks) is an excellent way to test-drive the ER lifestyle. That sort of experiential learning may render the agonizing over FI irrelevant.

 

[RunningBum]

Here's my opinion: We're either FI or we're not.

I don't agree, at least not in general. There's no black and white line. I don't think we can all that accurately predict expenses, inflation, etc for the next 40 years. So we probably need a buffer past the line of FI. How much? Who knows?

Then there's whatever FI means to each person. Is it enough to survive on? Enough to enjoy some extras? Enough to leave some legacy behind, either to heirs or to a foundation? Some people don't want to retire just FI, they want to retire rich.

Maybe you know your future expenses well, and wouldn't change how you live even if you have 10x your net worth, so you've got a solid black line. Mine's a lot fuzzier and grayer.

Maybe the OP is far enough past the FI line. But at 100K a month, I might very well take a shot at rich. At ~10K a month, rich is not so easily in reach for me.

This is coming from someone who is FI but hasn't pulled the trigger yet, to someone who is enjoying ER, so maybe my view isn't the best, especially on this board.

 

[Meadbh]

Well said, RunningBum.

 

[Spanky]

FI means that you have sufficient money to meet all your future projected needs. If you feel that you need to add buffer or margin, that means that you have not achieved your financial goals and therefore you should not declare FI. If you are so worried about uncertainties and no glue as to how much you will need to feel comfortable, you should just keep working until you feel you have enough or you no longer have the mental or physical capacity to earn more $$$$. As Nord says, you are either FI or not. If you were, why not take time to smell the roses?

 

[Spanky]

Some people don't want to retire just FI, they want to retire rich.

Okay - what is "rich"? One may never feel rich no matter how much he/she has. As Gandhi says, "There is enough in this world for everyone's need but there is not enough in this world for any body's greed."

 

[RunningBum]

In response to Spanky's last two posts, I'll use cars as an example of the degrees of being beyond FI.

I need one car. I have that. For some people that's enough.

I also like having a second car, something that's fun. I have an 11 year old Miata. Was 3-4 years old when I bought it. I'm FI without it, but I wanted it. I decided that I'm willing to keep working awhile longer to always have a fun car like that, relatively inexpensive but totally unnecessary. It never was a real goal, but since it wasn't that hard to get to this point, I figured why not?

I'd kind of like to upgrade to a much nicer fun car, something like a new BMW roadster. But at my income level and other expenses, I'd have to keep working longer than I'd like to be able to maintain the upgrade of a newer BMW over an older Miata. Now, if I could work one more month and pay cash for one, I'd do it, provided I wasn't on the verge of a major health or mental problem by continuing to work.

That's really about the limit for me. I don't really want a Ferrari or Lamborghini. But I could see how some people would hold out and work a few months longer to get one.

Replace cars with whatever you like, and wouldn't mind upgrading to some degree.

Personally, I'm sure I could get to the point of feeling rich without having everything. I'm sure there are some who would say I'm already there, but that doesn't mean I'd never feel rich at any point. I know there are others who, as you say, can't have enough to feel rich. Too bad for them.

 

[Nords]

In response to Spanky's last two posts, I'll use cars as an example of the degrees of being beyond FI.
I need one car. I have that. For some people that's enough.
I also like having a second car, something that's fun.
Replace cars with whatever you like, and wouldn't mind upgrading to some degree.

Upgrading may be a worthy goal, but you have to decide how much pain you're willing to endure to support your habit. My pain tolerance gets lower with each [-]surfing season[/-] year and as our teen [-]bears closer watching[/-] grows older.

Maybe someday I'll find a job I enjoy so much that I'll donate the paychecks to charity. But until that happens I'm going to work very hard to maintain my FI-ness.

"I used to have a drug problem, but now I make enough money to afford it..."
-- David Lee Roth

 

[Spanky]

Personally, I'm sure I could get to the point of feeling rich without having everything.

It's all relative. One can feel abundance with any material possession or financial wealth.

 

[Texas Proud]

Running.....

I am one that says like Nords et al.... you are either FI or you are not FI...

What are your other options

Now, there is not a point where you are 'not' and then get another dollar and now 'are'.... but we are not talking that closely....

All your examples are great, but mean nothing in the IS or NOT... if you are one that likes and extra car (like I am also)... you have to calculate this in your level needed to be FI... and YOUR FI is different than MY FI... and of course Nords and CFBs....

I can tell you that the OP says she can make over $1 mill per year has $4.5.... that is WAY more than I need... but maybe not enough for her... so if I had it I would be FI, she might not be... and all talk about cars or other things that can be used to calculate out how much you need to be FI still does not change the answer.... you either are or not FI...

 

[CybrMike]

Are you kidding me? For $100K per month work as long as you can at it and then never work another day in your life.

Un believable that we are even having this discussion. Get back to work!

 

[Shabber2]

I struggle with this question a lot as well. Sure, it is on a lesser extent, but here is what I did. I figured out that each year I continue to work I am able to withdraw an extra $1,000 per year in ER. So, on bad days I remind myself that each month I work i can withdraw another $83. This keeps me going.

Another thing I did was create 2 different retirement budgets: comfortable and Living Large. These are realistic, not Lear jets and stuff. So I hope I am strong enough to stop working when I hit my Living Large requirement of savings. But stopping short will be ok too. It is important to understand what that money is going to do for you and not be mesmerized by the amount.

 

[Ronstar]

Nords and Runningbum both have good points. Nords mentions the "dissatisfiers" of work. If one is at FI, the dissatisfiers play a major role in whether or not to RE. If one is dissatisfied with their job, then RE. If a person feels that their satisfaction from work (pay, benefits, etc) exceeds their level of dissatisfaction, then keep working for awhile.

If the job was bearable, I would probably work for awhile and spend my entire pay on toys and trips.

 

[hoping]

This is a fascinating debate. Further update is that I have had one interview, which went well. Loved the new location on West Coast and think I will be happier there. So, if I get the job I am taking it, despite much less $. If I don't, then . . . ?

 

[Spanky]

Loved the new location on West Coast and think I will be happier there. So, if I get the job I am taking it, despite much less $. If I don't, then . . . ?

then have fun and enjoy the sunrise and sunset of the pacific ocean.

 

[RunningBum]

This is a fascinating debate. Further update is that I have had one interview, which went well. Loved the new location on West Coast and think I will be happier there. So, if I get the job I am taking it, despite much less $. If I don't, then . . . ?

Sounds like your options are continuing to get better!

 

[thefed]

hoping -what industry are you in? just curious what job pays that well

 

[hoping]

law.