Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

[JB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryan Wow ... MA might actually compete with nieghboring states. As I said earlier ... COBRA when I FIRE'd last year in MA was $1054/mo for a family of 4. NH BC/BS family of 4 ..... $580/mo.

Are you sure that the NH plan allows for treatment in MA? WHen I had BC/BS out of state treatment was only available for emergencies. If you need serious long term treatment it must be done in state. I have a friend who keeps insurance in a state w/ excellent medical care. When he needs treatment, he travels.

Are the plans the same? I doubt it since the MA plan was a group/Cobra. I was in a similar situation with except w/ a good cobra plan. I moved to another state where the mix of approved individual plans was very different.

[JB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem An interesting philosphical point--how did it get to te point that the government would be considering making mandatory that everybody buy a particular service (health insurance)? Is there anything else that the government makes everybody purchase?

Sounds like the MA plan allows for people to prove that they can self insure. But what about people who don't want to use traditional western medicine? I bet they aren't happy with this law.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem An interesting philosphical point--how did it get to te point that the government would be considering making mandatory that everybody buy a particular service (health insurance)?* Is there anything else that the government makes everybody purchase?

Automobile liability insurance. For the same reasons.

Audrey

[tryan]

Quote:

Are you sure that the NH plan allows for treatment in MA?

yep, the border doctors accept both plans. Not sure about others.

[samclem]

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Originally Posted by audreyh1 Automobile liability insurance. For the same reasons.

Well, not quite. You only have to buy liability insurance (or prove that you can self insure) if you want to engage in a certain priviledge (operate a vehicle on the public (i.e. state) roads). The state requires folks to pay for all kinds of things if they want to exercise various priviledges. But is there another instance where the state requires everyone to pay for a private service/good simply because they reside in that state? Maybe there/s something, but I can't think of it.

Every "free" thing we get from govt comes out of someone else's pocket by force. And every free thing provided comes at some price in reduced individual freedom. Sometimes we agree that it is worth it, but we should always acknowledge the cost.

[farmerEd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryan Wow ... MA might actually compete with nieghboring states. As I said earlier ... COBRA when I FIRE'd last year in MA was $1054/mo for a family of 4.* NH BC/BS family of 4 ..... $580/mo.

I can get a BC/BS policy in Mass for $594 for my entire family (2+4 kids) right now...I could also pay north of $1000 for a BC/BS *too...all depends on the features/deductible you select - without a doubt the $580 NH policy included ldifferent things/deductibles than the $1000 mass policy..maybe the NH policy had all you wanted - but that doesn't make it the same as the MA policy.

I saw a car for sale in NH that was $120,000 once...and down here in Mass I can buy a car for only $30,000....

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem * *The state requires folks to pay for all kinds of things if they want to exercise various priviledges.* *But is there another instance where the state requires everyone to pay for a private service/good simply because they reside in that state? Maybe there/s something, but I can't think of it.

I guess the "privilege" is use of emergency rooms, etc. I suppose saying that if you are a resident you might use emergency/health services is not so huge of a stretch? So you have to prove financial accountability ahead of time.

Audrey

[lets-retire]

Using the emergency room can't be denied so it's not a privilege.

[tryan]

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all depends on the features/deductible you select

... there are no "features" to select in MA ... no pregnancy exclusion, no credit for non-smokers, invitro fertilization MUST be covered (another first for MA). Your premium covers everything ... regardless of if you need it.

One for all and all for one.

[Outtahere]

I took yesterday off for of all things a Dr appt. I returned this morning to 10 health insurance forms on my desk to be added to our plan. It seems that the kids here who would normally not invest in our health plan are suddenly jumping in. These are the same kids that would end up at the ER if they became sick or injured. For these single kids it's relatively inexpensive to join our plan, we pay 80% so they end up paying about $78 a month and that's pre tax dollars. It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the rest of the employees that are not on our plan.

[farmerEd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryan ... there are no "features" to select in MA ... no pregnancy exclusion, no credit for non-smokers, invitro fertilization MUST be covered (another first for MA).* Your premium covers everything ... regardless of if you need it.* One for all and all for one.

Thats simply not true...I just switched plans, and I have on my desk right now 5 different plans, all from BC/BS of Mass with different deductibles and levels of coverage and all at very different price points...perhaps they do all cover pregnancy...but clearly, with a low price of $580 and a high price over $1100 they ARE covering different things, with different deductibles, different co-pays, different add-ons. Somthings are covered from the first dollar, some the deductibles do apply etc some options only require a co-pay even if you do have a deductible etc. Some of dental options for children, some don't.

Maybe when you left your employer, you could only pick up COBRA, and they only offered a single choice...but thats a different issue.

[tryan]

Quote:

but clearly, with a low price of $580 and a high price over $1100 they ARE covering different things, with different deductibles, different co-pays, different add-ons.

MA has regulated what MUST be covered (I named a few big ones in my last EMAIL). Any wiggle room is outside these regulations (dental is a good example). So the bulk of any price movement will be in the deductable or payment structure.

The point being ... if coverage like invitro fertilization is mandated, you paying for it and an unregulated state (NH) will have cheaper coverage.

[ShokWaveRider]

$580 per month for health insurance is not cheap!. Most people cannot afford that let alone the $1100. You cannot force people who cannot afford it to get it. Also the fact that there are so many permutations of deductables etc. just makes the problem worse. Typical USA solution, make it as complicated as possible. Kill trees in the process, then tell everyone they have to have it, but don't really think about the ramificatons. Those who cannot afford it will not buy it and still get care for free.

Best solution. National Plan, $200 - $300 per month (or some affordable annual contribution) for everyone. Same coverage for everyone. If you do not earn money it comes out of your welfare check or your pension check. Coverage would be controlled and the same for everyone. Then if you want you can purchase top up insurance on your own.

Too easy I know, but if you are going to do it you may as well do it right and make it the same for all. Those who can afford it will simply buy the top up.

Just my HO.

SWR

[tryan]

! -

Here ... you can do the same exercise I did last year. Get a free quote from BC/BS Anthem (NH):

http://www.medhealthinsurance.com/an...?source=google

You need a NH zipcode - 013XX is NH (fill in XX).

Your savings will vary. If you're a smoker in your child bearing years you might not save (because these are individual vice group plans). Or you may find - as we did - taking a pregnancy exclusion and non-smoker cuts the MA group rate about in half.

Your comparison will be more relevant since it's MA BC/BS group (mine was MA Atena group) to NH BC/BS individual. Not perfect, but closer. Have fun!

[farmerEd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider $580 per month for health insurance is not cheap!. Most people cannot afford that let alone the $1100. You cannot force people who cannot afford it to get it.

Yes and no...$580 a month is cheap compare to just a few years ago when their were less options to choose from and they were all more expensive...so I guess it relative. and that $580/month was for a family policy (I went for a slightly better one for $760 month for family)...

And I agree, you cannot force poor people to buy plans they can't afford...the MA plan, as I understand, has subsidies to help poor folks afford the policies - on a sliding scale upto (I think) 300% of the Fed poverty level...so for a family of 6, I could make upto $80K and still qualify for some help. if you are under 100% of the I beleive its free with no deductible (100% poverty = $26K per year for a family of 6).

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider $580 per month for health insurance is not cheap!. Most people cannot afford that let alone the $1100. You cannot force people who cannot afford it to get it. Also the fact that there are so many permutations of deductables etc. just makes the problem worse. Typical USA solution, make it as complicated as possible. Kill trees in the process, then tell everyone they have to have it, but don't really think about the ramificatons. Those who cannot afford it will not buy it and still get care for free. Best solution. National Plan, $200 - $300 per month (or some affordable annual contribution) for everyone. Same coverage for everyone. If you do not earn money it comes out of your welfare check or your pension check. Coverage would be controlled and the same for everyone. Then if you want you can purchase top up insurance on your own. Too easy I know, but if you are going to do it you may as well do it right and make it the same for all. Those who can afford it will simply buy the top up. Just my HO. SWR

This appears to me also to be the best idea. But I would definitely not include in vitro -fertilization, or maybe several other things that are not disease cures or preventatives, but more lifestyle ameliorations. Also, you are on your own with chiropractic, oriental medicine, foot massage, etc, etc. These things can be fun, but all insurance would do is make them more expensive and make their practitioners better off, as our MD “providers” already have discovered.

Ha