In Retirement, Too, Money Isn't Everything

[LOL!]

"In Retirement, Too, Money Isn't Everything" by Jonathan Clements

Getting Going - WSJ.com

It looks like this forum provides a few things that are helpful: Making Plans, Finding Purpose, Keeping Company, Staying Sharp, Talking It Through, Staying Healthy.

So find some purpose in talking this article through with the good company you find here that I think stays pretty sharp.

 

[Spanky]

"The number one predictor of whether people have a successful retirement is the strength of their social network," Ms. Altmix says. "When people leave the work force, they leave their social network behind. And then they sometimes leave the state and move elsewhere."

This is one of main factors that DW resists moving elsewhere. I told her that she does not have a strong social network anyway except her mom and that we can always establish a new one if we moved to a different location (or state) preferably close to relatives and some friends.

 

[LOL!]

Have your wife participate in an online social network like this one. Then you can move anywhere as long as you have an internet connection there.

 

[Khan]

most people's vision of retirement can be summed up in two words: Blissful sloth. Yet that isn't a prescription for a happy retirement.

Don't tell me what should make me happy.

Retirees need a purpose, something they feel is both enjoyable and important.

See above.

It is enjoyable and important to watch the squirrels.

But intellectual stimulation is also a good reason to continue working part-time, even if you don't need the income.

Meetings, BS bingo, office politics, men blithering about sports, women blithering about shopping, trying to explain something to a supervisor who doesn't know a database from a carburetor...

The only thing stimulated was my blood pressure.

Work also provides camaraderie. You lose that when you leave the work force -- and you need to find it elsewhere.

With all that intellectual stimulation, camaraderie, and purposefulness why would anyone ever want to leave the joy of work for the misery and boredom of retirement?

 

[W2R]

This is one of main factors that DW resists moving elsewhere. I told her that she does not have a strong social network anyway except her mom and that we can always establish a new one if we moved to a different location (or state) preferably close to relatives and some friends.

People are so different. Some of us have moved dozens of times in life, and haven't ever developed a strong social network (and don't miss it). That would be Frank and me. Others have spent their lives near home and find the idea of moving away from home to be pretty disconcerting. And still others have had different experiences.

Don't tell me what should make me happy.

It is enjoyable and important to watch the squirrels.

Absolutely. Luckily, retirees are not identical robots with identical goals, identical interests, or identical perceptions, so we need not lead identical lives. Stereotypes can be smothering, but suggestions are nice. This type of article is best digested with a grain of salt.

 

[audreyh1]

But intellectual stimulation is also a good reason to continue working part-time, even if you don't need the income.

One of my pet peeves! This unexamined assumption that an individual can only find intellectual stimulation from work!

Do these people think we humans are so innately lazy that we only exercise our brains when required to in order to earn a living?

Oh well, it's just part of the "work forever" propaganda/mentality/brainwash.

Audrey

 

[NotSoonEnough]

One of my pet peeves! This unexamined assumption that an individual can only find intellectual stimulation from work!

Do these people think we humans are so innately lazy that we only exercise our brains when required to in order to earn a living?

Oh well, it's just part of the "work forever" propaganda/mentality/brainwash.

Audrey

Yep, if you're not working you are probably watching Oprah and "reality TV".

 

[haha]

I think one thing we can sometimes forget is that most articles are written for the broad middle of the population.

The group that has found its way here, and stayed, is clearly very different in many ways, not the least of which is how satisfied we can be with lessened social contact.

Ha

 

[LOL!]

Wow, you guys have really gone overboard with unwarranted criticism. I saw nothing in the article that stated one should not retire and keep working forever. Did I blow the link?

 

[CyclingInvestor]

I suspect alot of the mockery and criticism is directed at his first 5 points, which
struck me as almost setting up a business environment to properly enjoy retirement.
"Talking It Through" sounds like setting up meetings, "Making Plans" said that
without a plan boredom would set in after 6 months, "Finding a Purpose" implies
that working for free might be necessary, etc.

 

[Nords]

Let's keep in mind that Jonathan Clements has just as much retirement credibility as Scott Burns.

Reading their columns is like reading a book about sex. They're good with numbers, they talk a great game, and they can paint pretty pictures with words... but somehow they just can't seem to close the deal.

I'd reserve more sympathy & pity for them than hostility. Actually they seem to have found their avocations and they're probably paying Social Security & Medicare taxes, so perhaps we should thank them!

 

[LOL!]

OK, I'll just put out the OPPOSITE of what was in the article. You should see how ludricous what I write is:

Making Plans: Don't make any plans to retire. You don't have to worry about whether you will have enough money at all. Just do it.

Finding Purpose: Just retire. You don't need to have a purpose. You can lay in bed all day while watching TV and surfing the internet with your laptop. You won't ever get bored. It's awesome!

Staying Sharp: Any intellectual stimulation is to be avoided. Even reading this post is too much stimulation for you, so you might as well stop here.

Keeping Company: You don't need any camaraderie. You can be a hermit and/or misanthrope. Don't look that word up, it's too much intellectual stimulation and could blow your blissful retirement.

Talking It Through: No need to discuss retirement with your spouse. You want to keep them clueless.

Staying Healthy: What's the point? You are laying in bed watching TV, stuffing your face with junk food like Cheet-ohs (puffed beaver cheese?), maybe drinking beer until you fall asleep. You don't need to be healthy. You ain't gonna be talking to your spouse or interacting with anybody else anyways.

 

[heyyou]

There I was, choosing between my job and the danger of being bored.

 

[Goonie]

One of my pet peeves! This unexamined assumption that an individual can only find intellectual stimulation from work!

Do these people think we humans are so innately lazy that we only exercise our brains when required to in order to earn a living?

I agree! I have a lot of hobbies and activities that keep my brain active.......Don't need no stinkin' j*b for that!!! I get more intellectual stimulation now than I ever did while w*rking! And besides, if I was still w*rking I'd miss out on my 1 1/2 hours of TV each afternoon......two episodes of "Merv Griffin's Crosswords" and "Jeopardy". It's the only daytime TV I watch, AND it's kind of intellectually stimulating.....best of all it gives me a chance to sit on my duff and take a break from anything else I was doing!

BTW, if you like doing crossword puzzles, check out the "Merv Griffin's Crosswords" puzzle books! I got them for my Mom for Christmas, and she LOVES them! There are 3, Vol. 1 is "easy", Vol. 3 is "difficult", and Vol. 2 is somewhere in between.

 

[Spanky]

Have your wife participate in an online social network like this one. Then you can move anywhere as long as you have an internet connection there.

No, she does not participate in any forum. She rarely talks to her friends or relatives, but she would say that she does not want to move a place in which she does not know anyone. I think the real issue is that she is afraid of change and prefers to stay put.

 

[SteveR]

LOL,
I agree that folks here seem to be stabbing at the article with "their steely knives" instead of actually reading it for what it was intended. I think this quote says it all...

"The research is clear: People who don't have a purpose in life don't live as long as those who do," he says.
That purpose might be volunteering at a local museum, getting involved politically, counseling teenagers, going back to college, writing a book or coaching a kids' sports team."

It says what many other books and articles say about retirement....have a plan of what you WANT to do with the rest of your life rather than just floating and hoping something will come up to keep your mind from turning into Jello.

Many ER'd folks on this very thread have things they do to keep their minds and bodies sharp..surfing, golf, photography, volunteer work, etc. It is not about w*rk...it is about keeping your mind and body focused on good health and your social environment active.

Sometimes some of the folks on this forum remind me of Nursing Home inmates...crabby, stubborn, and hard to please.

 

[W2R]

LOL,
I agree that folks here seem to be stabbing at the article with "their steely knives" instead of actually reading it for what it was intended. I think this quote says it all...

"The research is clear: People who don't have a purpose in life don't live as long as those who do," he says.
That purpose might be volunteering at a local museum, getting involved politically, counseling teenagers, going back to college, writing a book or coaching a kids' sports team."

It says what many other books and articles say about retirement....have a plan of what you WANT to do with the rest of your life rather than just floating and hoping something will come up to keep your mind from turning into Jello.

(emphasis mine)

Hmm. My mother's purpose in life was to raise her children and be a good wife, but after her children were gone and my father passed away (the year they both retired), she lived another 25+ years until she was two weeks short of age 98. After my father died she moved into a continuous care facility and spent her time socializing with others in her facility, napping, reading, and relaxing. She would occasionally go to exercise class or little concerts or functions that they had in her facility, or played cards with other members, but I would hardly call these a purpose in life. She just had FUN! And no, her mind did not "turn to jello". Her mental acuity remained about like what it was in her 40's, until two months short of her death when all her systems were shutting down.

Good thing she wasn't one of those who had a purpose in life for her retirement during those last 25 years! Of course, I realize that this is just anecdotal but it does raise some questions for me.

When I reach ER, I intend to have fun as well. If I find that I have a purpose in life, then so be it, but I do not plan to push the envelope looking for one.

 

[saluki9]

Let's keep in mind that Jonathan Clements has just as much retirement credibility as Scott Burns.

Reading their columns is like reading a book about sex. They're good with numbers, they talk a great game, and they can paint pretty pictures with words... but somehow they just can't seem to close the deal.

I'd reserve more sympathy & pity for them than hostility. Actually they seem to have found their avocations and they're probably paying Social Security & Medicare taxes, so perhaps we should thank them!

I'm just jealous because Jonthan Clements makes a really nice living for writing the same 5 columns. He just rotates them and changes a few words.

 

[yakers]

Yep, if you're not working you are probably watching Oprah and "reality TV".

Oh no, I am still working and watch Oprah & reality TV

 

[Nords]

Sometimes some of the folks on this forum remind me of Nursing Home inmates...crabby, stubborn, and hard to please.

Another slow, fat pitch just hangin' over the plate...

 

[Sandy]

My mother's purpose in life was to raise her children and be a good wife, but after her children were gone and my father passed away... she lived another 25+ years ....spent her time socializing with others in her facility, napping, reading, and relaxing. She would occasionally go to exercise class or little concerts or functions that they had in her facility, or played cards with other members, but I would hardly call these a purpose in life. She just had FUN!

.

I would say that having fun WAS her purpose: enjoy each day doing what she wanted when she wanted. Purpose doesn't need to create a product like well-reared children.

 

[volga]

Perhaps the WSJ is part of the Matrix? (Work, NEO, Work...)

 

[W2R]

.

I would say that having fun WAS her purpose: enjoy each day doing what she wanted when she wanted. Purpose doesn't need to create a product like well-reared children.

Hoorah!! Then I believe I have finally found my purpose in life: like my mother, my true purpose in life is to spend my remaining years having FUN, FUN, FUN!! I think she deserved it after working hard most of her life, and I think I do too.

I have been trying to have fun when possible even while I am slaving away day after day for a living. When I ER, I will be closer to attaining my true purpose in life!

Somehow this post reminds me of Goonie's happy reports of what his first year of ER has been like.

 

[enfp]

One of my pet peeves! This unexamined assumption that an individual can only find intellectual stimulation from work!

Do these people think we humans are so innately lazy that we only exercise our brains when required to in order to earn a living?

Oh well, it's just part of the "work forever" propaganda/mentality/brainwash.

Audrey

Substitute "learning" for work and "school" for earn a living, and this is the same stuff we homeschoolers hear all the time. Hard to believe that kids actually LOVE to learn and will eagerly learn without any prompting. For some strange reason, people think that to be learning and productive you must be corralled with others who hate being there too. What is true is that corralled, distracted and numb people are easier to control and keep subdued and led with blinkers on into the consumer driven corporatocracy in which we live . School and work are what most people believe that you have to do in life. I'm so glad we are free, all 4 of us finally. Well, except for the corporatocracy thing, and we exercise our freedom in that as much as possible through simple living.

 

[audreyh1]

Substitute "learning" for work and "school" for earn a living, and this is the same stuff we homeschoolers hear all the time. Hard to believe that kids actually LOVE to learn and will eagerly learn without any prompting. For some strange reason, people think that to be learning and productive you must be corralled with others who hate being there too. What is true is that corralled, distracted and numb people are easier to control and keep subdued and led with blinkers on into the consumer driven corporatocracy in which we live . School and work are what most people believe that you have to do in life. I'm so glad we are free, all 4 of us finally. Well, except for the corporatocracy thing, and we exercise our freedom in that as much as possible through simple living.

A fascinating observation!

Even as an adult, I still enjoy learning and have all my adult life - learning simply for its own sake and not necessarily as some means to a goal (although there often is one). I have plenty of time to do spend learning (about things I personally care about) now that I am retired!

I guess that's why I still get so dumbfounded whenever I run across statements/attitudes that assume "brain stimulation" is not something that occurs naturally as part of enjoyable leisure activities.

Audrey