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Old 01-17-2021, 04:52 AM   #21
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These sorts of issues (in this case, governmental bodies change the rules in mid stream - all the "best" intentions, I'm sure - no politics, right?) EVENTUALLY work themselves out. There are winners and loser, BUT the old expression "Fool me once... etc." comes to mind. I don't know what the consequences will be, but eventually, landlords will find ways to protect themselves in the future. AND it will cost prospective renters. YMMV
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Old 01-17-2021, 07:23 AM   #22
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1 of 11 not paying rent since August. We were able to secure rent payments from our county and the CARES act. That ended in December however. We canít evict or terminate the lease even though she is month to month. Trying to get her to pay while not making her mad since that could cause her to trash the place. Hoping that if there is a continuation of the eviction moratorium that there will be some money for landlords again.
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:03 AM   #23
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1 of 11 not paying rent since August. We were able to secure rent payments from our county and the CARES act. That ended in December however. We canít evict or terminate the lease even though she is month to month. Trying to get her to pay while not making her mad since that could cause her to trash the place. Hoping that if there is a continuation of the eviction moratorium that there will be some money for landlords again.

So thereís some money for landlords in the CARES act?
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:13 AM   #24
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1 of 11 not paying rent since August. We were able to secure rent payments from our county and the CARES act. That ended in December however. We canít evict or terminate the lease even though she is month to month. Trying to get her to pay while not making her mad since that could cause her to trash the place. Hoping that if there is a continuation of the eviction moratorium that there will be some money for landlords again.
Are you saying that you can't ask someone to leave when their lease is up? That just doesn't seem right (which doesn't mean it is not true!). Can the Government really force individuals to modify contracts after they have been agreed to?

I guess even the "no eviction for lack of payment" is a contract modification. While I understand the intent, this just seems like a breach of the law. Seems a more legal way to handle this would be for the Government to pay the rent, and then deal with recovering it from the individual (or just pay it out of general taxes, or some combo). As others have mentioned, this isn't fair to landlords, and it seems to violate "equal protection"principles?

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So thereís some money for landlords in the CARES act?
I was curious about that as well. Had not heard about that.

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About to retire, worried about Landloring
Old 01-17-2021, 09:53 AM   #25
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About to retire, worried about Landloring

I'm 46, and I will be early-retiring........latest by February 1st so right around the corner and I am very concerned about this 'no eviction' mindset that is becoming more pervasive.

Until now, earning a rather realistic 4-5% annual return by renting out homes was a key part of my nest-egg-management plan. I believe that America's population will increase, and I feel that everyone needs a place to sleep, rather basic theory and furthermore I truly want to diversify from 'paper assets' the best I can and 30-35% allocated in physical homes is my plan.

OK, I AM NOT TRYING TO LAUNCH A POLITICAL DISCUSSION. The following are just for example purposes and I will not state my opinion.

To me, it's not about the CARES act - that is *today*. To me it's about trends and what is coming in the future. And if you look at issues from minnimum wage hikes, to paid family leave, to marriage laws....it all starts with rhetoric that eventually becomes part of the national dialogue and then eventually finds its way into law.

If you look around, you'll see reports of people talking "no evictions!" and graffiti to that effect. and you don't see much pushback. Again...it all starts with words.

Also, look at today's new crop of political leaders. Look at their mindset and philosophy. Ask yourself....are they more favoring of landlords, or more sympathetic to memes and trends du jour such as "no evictions!".

I would say that as the generation and mindset shift continues..... there *will* be more stringent regularions on rent increases and evictions.

Long_term I feel this has reduced *some* of the allure for me and in coming months I hope to research and find defense mechanisms.

So far I only own 2 investment homes - and my rule has been that if a tenant has a complaint, fix it FAST, and not on the cheap. For instance a Mom reported her washing machine not working. My property manager said it will be a week to get it fixed and I said "no, get a new machine delivered NOW". But on the flipside, NO problems with tenants.

However, once people have the protection of law, attitudes will indeed change.

I truly want to own 5-7 rental homes. Soon. But I believe that within 10 years, people will be allowed to not pay rent, and have much more protection than they have now.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:02 AM   #26
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I would say landlording is less desirable than in the past, except for the fact we never intended to be landlords to start with so we never found it desirable. We will probably find ourselves rerenting the place soon and I dont like the idea of my choice of tenants being everyone who may have gotten tossed from prior places not due to back rent (evictions ban bars that) but for other reasons in violation of the lease that they are allowing eviction for (I dont even want to speculate what those offenses may bring to my property).
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:11 AM   #27
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Are you saying that you can't ask someone to leave when their lease is up? That just doesn't seem right (which doesn't mean it is not true!). Can the Government really force individuals to modify contracts after they have been agreed to?



I guess even the "no eviction for lack of payment" is a contract modification. While I understand the intent, this just seems like a breach of the law. Seems a more legal way to handle this would be for the Government to pay the rent, and then deal with recovering it from the individual (or just pay it out of general taxes, or some combo). As others have mentioned, this isn't fair to landlords, and it seems to violate "equal protection"principles?







I was curious about that as well. Had not heard about that.



-ERD50


What Iím saying about the month to month lease is that I could tell her to move out, but since I canít evict her she could just stay put without recourse at that point.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:12 AM   #28
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Increased Risk for Landlords?

No, not really, a global pandemic has always been possible.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:17 AM   #29
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So thereís some money for landlords in the CARES act?

My countyís webpage has changed since they were paying rent past due for qualifying tenants, so I canít find the verbiage.
Minnesota set aside money to be available for tenants who had lost their jobs to COVID-19, I beehive it was $100M available through the first week of December. I remember it stated as being part of the CARES act, but it could just have been how MN allocated the allotted resources.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:35 AM   #30
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Lucky me.
The main reason we sold our house (family homestead for a century) was that the do-good landlord next door converted her place to low income housing. A complete disaster to say the least.

Last March, just as Covid was starting, I went to the landlord and offered to assume all her mortgages on the house, plus $500K in cash. A great offer.

She flatly refused saying that she wouldn't sell to me for any amount because "you'd throw all those nice people out". I countered that the 'nice people' had had the police over two or three times a week for seven months. Actually our plan was to tear the place down and put in a big pool.

Now, I see that she did me a great favor. We sold our house, built a nice new one in the woods and now she's stuck with people who can't pay.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:42 AM   #31
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Increased Risk for Landlords?

No, not really, a global pandemic has always been possible.
The pandemic is not a risk.

It's the gov't making illegal evictions, so today all tenants could simply live rent free.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:20 PM   #32
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Our city used to be fairly balanced - obviously there are renter's rights but evictions were also pretty straightforward, no rent control, etc.

Now there's an eviction moratorium, and for whatever reason, rent control is now back on the table. Last year an ordinance was passed that doesn't allow rejecting a tenant for credit score or history. Rejections for criminal history can now only go back a certain number of years (I think 3), and a written explanation for the rejection must be sent to the applicant and filed with the city.

We nearly bought a 4-plex a few years ago. I now feel like we dodged a bullet. I know a landlord here that owns one 12-unit apartment building. Two tenants haven't paid since early summer, which basically means he's breaking even. If another one stops paying, he'll be in the red.

Like in most industries that are overregulated, all this is going to do is drive out the mom and pop landlords and cause consolidation into a few mega-companies that have the money and muscle to push back. Landlording used to be a great way for immigrants, those with less education to make a good living through sweat equity and hard work, but I'm not sure that's the case anymore.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:05 PM   #33
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What I’m saying about the month to month lease is that I could tell her to move out, but since I can’t evict her she could just stay put without recourse at that point.
Wow. I can at least understand the intentions behind a moratorium on eviction for non-payment, if the renter lost their income due to COVID. But a lease has a time limit, agreed to by both parties. The landlord might have been thinking of selling, or moving in themselves, or tearing it down at the end of the lease, any number of possibilities. I just don't see why the pandemic should change that aspect of the agreement.

In fact, I know someone who ran into this issue. Due to a death in the family (the "bread winner"), they decided to sell their primary residence, and planned to move into a rental that they owned when that lease was up. Fortunately, the renters were looking to move at that time anyhow, so there was no conflict, but it could have put them in a bind, on top of dealing with their loss. And by moving into the rental, they can start unwinding some of the tax implications from the time it was a business property. Since they really could not afford to live in their old house, this would have been complicated.

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Our city used to be fairly balanced - obviously there are renter's rights but evictions were also pretty straightforward, no rent control, etc.

Now there's an eviction moratorium, and for whatever reason, rent control is now back on the table. Last year an ordinance was passed that doesn't allow rejecting a tenant for credit score or history. ...
Another "Wow!". IIRC, several of the landlords who post here were saying that the credit score was the one thing they could use w/o fear of being hit with a discrimination charge (or at least it wouldn't stick). It was a number, use the same criteria for everyone and you are deemed to be "fair".

Now they are taking that away? Being a landlord never appealed to me anyhow, but this is really getting into some strange territory.

I never liked the idea of rent controls either. I've never seen a case where any sort of price fixing didn't create more problems that it was supposed to solve. I guess I'd rather see the Govt give direct support to the people who need it, than to get in the middle of a free market exchange. That just seems like a complicated ends to a means.

-ERD50
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:12 PM   #34
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I feel for any landlord that has past due tenants and cannot get them evicted. All of the state laws are usually skewed toward the tenants' rights in the best of times. Even if you get an eviction order, they have weeks to get out before the sheriff posts a court order and watches while you hire movers to haul their junk to the curb.

Right now, Memphis is just wondering what's going to happen to the 10,000 eviction orders in progress. I guess some cities have higher quality renters than others. They don't have enough sheriff's deputies to issue all the summons and follow up on the court orders.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:40 PM   #35
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....She flatly refused saying that she wouldn't sell to me for any amount because "you'd throw all those nice people out". I countered that the 'nice people' had had the police over two or three times a week for seven months. Actually our plan was to tear the place down and put in a big pool.

Now, I see that she did me a great favor. We sold our house, built a nice new one in the woods and now she's stuck with people who can't pay.
Yeah, but at least those people who can't pay her are "nice people".

Perhaps you should rub salt in the wound by sending her a note thanking her for not selling to you.
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Increased Risk for Landlords?
Old 01-17-2021, 01:44 PM   #36
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Increased Risk for Landlords?

If tenants get rental income support from the gov then evictions should still be allowed.

If evictions are not allowed then the landlord should get the support money.

The problem is giving support money to tenants who can not be evicted if they do not pass it on to the landlord.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:55 PM   #37
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Lucky me.
The main reason we sold our house (family homestead for a century) was that the do-good landlord next door converted her place to low income housing. A complete disaster to say the least.

Last March, just as Covid was starting, I went to the landlord and offered to assume all her mortgages on the house, plus $500K in cash. A great offer.

She flatly refused saying that she wouldn't sell to me for any amount because "you'd throw all those nice people out". I countered that the 'nice people' had had the police over two or three times a week for seven months. Actually our plan was to tear the place down and put in a big pool.

Now, I see that she did me a great favor. We sold our house, built a nice new one in the woods and now she's stuck with people who can't pay.
Glad it worked out for you. Heh, heh, your neighbor may learn the hard way that not all of her tenants are actually "nice."
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Old 01-17-2021, 03:06 PM   #38
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My parents were tenants all their lives.
I have also been a tenant (hated being at the whim of the landlord to move, etc).

But not all tenants complaining are telling the truth.
So landlords sometimes get a bum rap for being hard hearted.

Mom rented out her inherited house (while mom was still a tenant ) to a family. Mom told me that she rarely increased the rent as the tenants could barely afford to live.
After living there for 15 yrs, the tenants offered to buy the "unprofitable" rental from mom, and enjoy the benefits of ownership.
I guess they weren't quite so poor, yes Mom sold to them as it was such trouble being a landlord.
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Old 01-17-2021, 03:15 PM   #39
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Lucky me.
The main reason we sold our house (family homestead for a century) was that the do-good landlord next door converted her place to low income housing. A complete disaster to say the least.

Last March, just as Covid was starting, I went to the landlord and offered to assume all her mortgages on the house, plus $500K in cash. A great offer.

She flatly refused saying that she wouldn't sell to me for any amount because "you'd throw all those nice people out". I countered that the 'nice people' had had the police over two or three times a week for seven months. Actually our plan was to tear the place down and put in a big pool.

Now, I see that she did me a great favor. We sold our house, built a nice new one in the woods and now she's stuck with people who can't pay.
How do you know they cannot pay? Has she told you that?
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Old 01-17-2021, 03:56 PM   #40
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Iím out

Iíve had lots of rentals in the past. But when the deck is stacked by the government (as it is currently), the risk is extreme, and unmanageable by me. I leave games like that until conditions improve. They get to live free in my real estate, and I get the right to pay loans, taxes, insurance, maintenance, and utilities? No thanks. If I owned rental real estate right now (I donít), I would short-term rental it (think airbnb, vrbo, etc) for no more than a month at a time. In my area, the short term rentals have exploded driving normal rental real estate out of existence. But thatís another debate.
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