Increasing budget in retirement... the kids and extra travel

[Aiming_4_55]

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Originally Posted by exnavynuke snip/ I don't disagree that studying abroad could be a potential cost if parents want to pay for their kids to do it. So could financing a 1 year global vacation for their kids, or buying them each their first house, etc. I disagreed with the implication that failing to do so was going to somehow negatively impact some unknown kid's job prospects.

I might be narrow minded, but I rather use the extra $25k - $50k to assist with their first house/condo down payment, but it'll depend on their major and the benefit. In CA, it'll be a small down payment, so it might not make sense, but in the Midwest, the $50k could be their 20% down payment and launch them in housing.

Sometimes I wonder, what it would take to "set them up" (not spoil them) so they would have a better life, so childhood education and learning activities cover that along with college funding is what I've accepted. New car, wedding and house fund would be bonuses I would like to do, but not working say an extra 5 years in a job I dislike.

[ivinsfan]

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Originally Posted by Aiming_4_55 So far, here is a list of extras that I should make sure is in my rough budget. Car (used or hand me down) plus insurance ($2k per car/driver/year) Yes, you should get the chance to makeout in a car ;-) Sports (kids preference?) and medical (OOP) Ok, but if I have too many sleepless nights, you are done. Braces ($5k each) Yes, I think it's nice to have teeth for most part ;-) Prom ($1k each) Yes, they should have the experience. Food ($1k year) Yes, I guess I'll feed them. Clothing ($1k extra each) This is beyond the current budget for their fashion appealing needs. 2 Cell Phone Service ($1k year) Basic smart phones can be had for under $100, anything beyond they will have to earn. Yes, I know teenagers are impossible to plan for, but I am just listing what I might be willing to contribute if I support the activity/action. It is not a given that I will increase the current clothing, sports, or discretionary budget yet.

Boy the cost of prom is high? Is this "normal" for your area and what does it cover?

Aside from Prom and the "extra 1K for clothes" everything else is pretty standard. Do you plan on having your kids work or giving them allowance money?..if you do, I think sticking to the standard clothing allowance is a good way to teach them about brand names and the value of money.

[Fedup]

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Originally Posted by ivinsfan Boy the cost of prom is high? Is this "normal" for your area and what does it cover? Aside from Prom and the "extra 1K for clothes" everything else is pretty standard. Do you plan on having your kids work or giving them allowance money?..if you do, I think sticking to the standard clothing allowance is a good way to teach them about brand names and the value of money.

It could be high, maybe not the yearly expense either. But IIRC, new dress, new shoes, hair and make up, limo, food, etc.. was $500 for senior year and that was in 2008. But my brother paid $800 for his boy back in 2003. He lives in a richer area. So this is the case that it varies depends on the school and your own situation. I think one of my kids, the school had one event at Disneyland. The ticket is expensive there now, not cheap.

[akck]

Figure a cost for weddings, although actual wedding expense can be optional. We gave our son $5,000 to cover expenses, in addition to paying for rehersal dinner. I believe her parents gave them the same amount.

On car insurance, the cost can be reduced with good grades and we only carried liability coverage (older used cars worth less than $2,000). We also had our youngest take an online drivers safety course which cut 10% for several years. I think our agent also listed them on the cheapest vehicle to keep the cost down. If they go away to school without a car, let your agent know as it will drop the cost.

One other post retirement expense is travel to see kids, assuming they move away or while they're at school. Our oldest with the grandkid is on the opposite coast, so we travel there often. Trade off is we don't vacation travel elsewhere for now.

[NanoSour]

"Car (used or hand me down) plus insurance ($2k per car/driver/year) Yes, you should get the chance to makeout in a car ;-)"

Man, that's and expensive kiss. Doesn't fit into my FIRE philosophy.

[NanoSour]

I'll comment on each of these as they have worked out for us. I left work 4 years ago with a 5th, 6th, and 9th grader. Our oldest is now a senior in HS and will be heading off to college in the fall. Our 2 youngest are boys.

Car (used or hand me down) plus insurance ($2k per car/driver/year) Yes, you should get the chance to makeout in a car ;-) -- DD got her learners permit right after freshman year and didn't get her license until spring of junior year. Since she didn't get a job, I told her she didn't need her license. I much preferred she spent time on studying than get a part-time job. The better grades were way more profitable as she got top merit money. At many colleges the difference between 3.5 and 3.8 GPA is $20000-25000 in merit money over 4 years. When she got her license last spring our insurance only went up $27/month. (2 Cars - neither worth over 10K so don't carry coll/comp, but lot's of liability)

Sports (kids preference?) and medical (OOP) Ok, but if I have too many sleepless nights, you are done. -- Youngest S is into premier soccer and that has run me $3800-4200/year for that last 3 years. It was a family decision to do this for him as we wouldn't pay this money for each kid. Fortunately no serious injuries.

Braces ($5k each) Yes, I think it's nice to have teeth for most part ;-) -- Paying $95/month for 3 years for middle child. Dental insurance paid $1750.

Prom ($1k each) Yes, they should have the experience. DD going to the prom next month. Didn't cost me anything. She bought her own dress.

Food ($1k year) Yes, I guess I'll feed them. -- Boys appetite has increased almost exponentially as they have moved into their mid-teen. I'd plan for 2K.

Clothing ($1k extra each) This is beyond the current budget for their fashion appealing needs. -- They buy their own clothes from their allowance. Each child gets their age/week paid at the beginning of each month. They have to manage their own money. We buy them very little.

2 Cell Phone Service ($1k year) Basic smart phones can be had for under $100, anything beyond they will have to earn. -- You can pay as much or little as you want here. Our 8th and 9th grader don't have a phone and DD bought her own used iphone 5S last XMas after selling her ipad. We use Consumer Cellular and pay $53/month for 3 iphones. Basically only use data when on wifi networks.

[Aiming_4_55]

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Originally Posted by ivinsfan Boy the cost of prom is high? Is this "normal" for your area and what does it cover? Aside from Prom and the "extra 1K for clothes" everything else is pretty standard. Do you plan on having your kids work or giving them allowance money?..if you do, I think sticking to the standard clothing allowance is a good way to teach them about brand names and the value of money.

I was thinking $500 per prom, junior and senior proms x 2 kids. Just a wild guess.

I do anticipate my kids working part time in school. It builds character, however it will depend on schooling needs, grades and/or ability to pass the class are important. The work income will supplement their personal choices, savings, and spending money.

[Aiming_4_55]

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Originally Posted by NanoSour Food ($1k year) Yes, I guess I'll feed them. -- Boys appetite has increased almost exponentially as they have moved into their mid-teen. I'd plan for 2K.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I guess I'll still feed them regardless of the cost.

I better look up my restaurant connection and get 100 pound sack of rice for $20. Rice and ketchup when my parents were broke as a kid. Glad those days are over.

[Hermit]

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Originally Posted by tn3sport Tell me you didn't cite CNN as a credible source... I'll let that be your mulligan. At any rate, the OP was looking for potential cost items. That's one that has potential. Yeah, Study Abroad has a mere 3% participation rate (See College Boards site) but the rate in increasing; however, only 13% of college grads find jobs in their field of study. Optimum word(s) here in study abroad is "advantage/disadvantage". It can be a costly option, and something to budget for in the college experience, but clearly provides an advantage to the students that participate in it.

DD thought of it as an unnecessary lark. It would have increased her time in college by a semester for a semester abroad. I tend to agree with her.

[FUEGO]

I'm taking notes since my oldest is 12 and my next is almost 11.

So far we haven't seen any outsized kid expenses. The biggest one we did see was the middle school $150 overnight field trip fee to travel 4 hours to a residential camp by the ocean. That's all the field trips for the year for her though. In the past we were spending $20-25/yr per kid on field trips but that was elementary and a lower income school. My money-conscious kid's thoughts on the $150 field trip: "it was fun, really fun but probably not worth $150 since many of my friends didn't go. I liked eating the food."

6th grade for the oldest involved an extremely intense core math course that covered 6, 7, and most of 8th grade curricula so we kept after school activities to a minimum, therefore zero sports or club-related fees (other than the occasional swimming or roller skating admission fees).

We went in for a braces consult and the quote was $4800 I think. So far we're opting to wait because the teeth might grow into place straight enough and I'm not sure my daughter is willing to take care of the increased dental hygiene and post-braces retainer usage (so might be 4800 mostly wasted dollars). The situation isn't that visibly noticeable as is, but we will definitely go for the braces if it makes sense.

Car insurance and an inexpensive reliable, safe, used car is the other big expense. We will probably get one car for the two older kids to share since they'll be at the same high school together. We're a 1 car family now so going to 2 cars won't make our overall transportation expenses go crazy. City bus / uber / bike is also an option

We do extensive family vacations. Usually a long summer trip of 3-9 weeks and 1-3 shorter vacations during the school year, usually 5 to 7 day cruises to the Caribbean. Kid-related costs are big but budgeted for. For the long vacations we do airbnb and find 2 BR places that are reasonably priced. YMMV on other kid costs. In Europe this summer, kids often travel free/cheap up till age 12-15 or so, and many places offer discounted rates for young adults up through age 19-26 or so. I've also seen many "family" ticket packages that work out much cheaper than the 2 adults / 3 kids tickets we are used to buying. I'm not sure how long the kids will want to join us on these big long trips, so our kid-related travel costs might actually drop down in several more years if one or more kids stay home without us (summer job, camp, volunteering, educational stuff, etc).

[Aiming_4_55]

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Originally Posted by Hermit DD thought of it as an unnecessary lark. It would have increased her time in college by a semester for a semester abroad. I tend to agree with her.

It'll be a personal choice and depends on the "value". I leveraged summer internship programs which reduced 2 semesters to complete my degree early. Not only did it reduce my university expenses, it allowed me to earn an income a year sooner.

[Aiming_4_55]

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Originally Posted by FUEGO I'm taking notes since my oldest is 12 and my next is almost 11.

I think we'll be sharing notes as our kids grow up and we experience FI and RE in our varying forms.

All the things listed so far are optional and just depends. The more the better in my mind as I'm working to offer the best I can. Yes, that might mean working a few extra years, but I'm still in my 40s.

This weeks decision... summer surfing lessons/activity, one week tuition (5 full days) is $450 per kid. We'll start with one week, maybe two weeks, then take it from there. It's not a requirement, but a guilty pleasure. If money was tight, it would not happen, but money isn't tight.

I guess this is a form of upgrading the lifestyle, but a few other members have highlighted having too much dough and working too long. I received my annual bonus which is much more than last year, so the kids get a slight upgrade. Even after the splurge, more will get invested than last year, so it'll be ok.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUEGO I'm taking notes since my oldest is 12 and my next is almost 11. So far we haven't seen any outsized kid expenses. The biggest one we did see was the middle school $150 overnight field trip fee to travel 4 hours to a residential camp by the ocean. That's all the field trips for the year for her though. In the past we were spending $20-25/yr per kid on field trips but that was elementary and a lower income school. My money-conscious kid's thoughts on the $150 field trip: "it was fun, really fun but probably not worth $150 since many of my friends didn't go. I liked eating the food." 6th grade for the oldest involved an extremely intense core math course that covered 6, 7, and most of 8th grade curricula so we kept after school activities to a minimum, therefore zero sports or club-related fees (other than the occasional swimming or roller skating admission fees). We went in for a braces consult and the quote was $4800 I think. So far we're opting to wait because the teeth might grow into place straight enough and I'm not sure my daughter is willing to take care of the increased dental hygiene and post-braces retainer usage (so might be 4800 mostly wasted dollars). The situation isn't that visibly noticeable as is, but we will definitely go for the braces if it makes sense. Car insurance and an inexpensive reliable, safe, used car is the other big expense. We will probably get one car for the two older kids to share since they'll be at the same high school together. We're a 1 car family now so going to 2 cars won't make our overall transportation expenses go crazy. City bus / uber / bike is also an option We do extensive family vacations. Usually a long summer trip of 3-9 weeks and 1-3 shorter vacations during the school year, usually 5 to 7 day cruises to the Caribbean. Kid-related costs are big but budgeted for. For the long vacations we do airbnb and find 2 BR places that are reasonably priced. YMMV on other kid costs. In Europe this summer, kids often travel free/cheap up till age 12-15 or so, and many places offer discounted rates for young adults up through age 19-26 or so. I've also seen many "family" ticket packages that work out much cheaper than the 2 adults / 3 kids tickets we are used to buying. I'm not sure how long the kids will want to join us on these big long trips, so our kid-related travel costs might actually drop down in several more years if one or more kids stay home without us (summer job, camp, volunteering, educational stuff, etc).

Braces won't get any cheaper.... getting braces is not always about the "look" of the teeth, there are other factors involved that are not cosmetic.Most dentists apply a small wire retainer on the lower mouth after the braces come out which reduces the retainer usage. My 38 year old daughters wire is still in place after almost 25 years and her teeth look perfect. If you went for a consult you must feel braces would be needed. It kind of feels like you are looking for reasons not to get braces.

Your kid will have these teeth for life, straight enough is not the same as straight.

[rodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiming_4_55 I think we'll be sharing notes as our kids grow up and we experience FI and RE in our varying forms. All the things listed so far are optional and just depends. The more the better in my mind as I'm working to offer the best I can. Yes, that might mean working a few extra years, but I'm still in my 40s. This weeks decision... summer surfing lessons/activity, one week tuition (5 full days) is $450 per kid. We'll start with one week, maybe two weeks, then take it from there. It's not a requirement, but a guilty pleasure. If money was tight, it would not happen, but money isn't tight. I guess this is a form of upgrading the lifestyle, but a few other members have highlighted having too much dough and working too long. I received my annual bonus which is much more than last year, so the kids get a slight upgrade. Even after the splurge, more will get invested than last year, so it'll be ok.

There are often bargains to be had for summer camps on the water. Here in San Diego there's an aquatic center that does $99/week/half-day coupons through the local newspaper... I don't subscribe - but fortunately the coupons are available for everyone. My friends always tell me when that deal comes around.

There's also Jr. Lifeguard - a 4 week/half day camp that is super physical and intense... The kids are exhausted in a very good way and get in great shape (and get great water safety/rescue skills.) It's not very expensive when you look at the 4 week time frame.

[FUEGO]

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Originally Posted by ivinsfan Braces won't get any cheaper.... getting braces is not always about the "look" of the teeth, there are other factors involved that are not cosmetic.Most dentists apply a small wire retainer on the lower mouth after the braces come out which reduces the retainer usage. My 38 year old daughters wire is still in place after almost 25 years and her teeth look perfect. If you went for a consult you must feel braces would be needed. It kind of feels like you are looking for reasons not to get braces. Your kid will have these teeth for life, straight enough is not the same as straight.

The kids both have/had a weird tooth that's taking a while to grow in. Over the past couple years the oldest one's teeth have straightened up a lot. The dentist suggested a referral to an orthodontist just to see if he would recommend an extraction or any other treatment.

The orthodontist suggested an extraction if the baby tooth wasn't out within a few months (the one that was pushing the other tooth back). It came out on its own within a few months. Of course the orthodontist came up with an elaborate treatment plan to fix the imperfect 0.5 mm deviation here and 1.0 mm deviation there. It's like going to a plastic surgeon and asking if there's anything they could do to make you more perfect.

I took the kids for a consult at the orthodontist because I'm not an orthodontist and wanted to see what a professional's opinion was. Basically, there's no medical need to get braces, everything will most likely grow into place perfectly normally. The kids don't want braces (now) and based on their dental hygiene it would probably be better to wait till they are more interested in getting braces. We might go back in another year or two if things don't continue on the right path and/or the kids get more interested in braces.

Oddly enough my oldest just asked me about retainers today and asked whether they must be worn forever. She said most of her friends at school don't wear a retainer any more even though they are supposed to (which is exactly what she would do ). I didn't wear mine either so probably wasted a bunch of my parent's money too.

I'm not opposed to spending $5,000 or so on braces per kid since it's within our budget and a mostly one time expense. But it's not without risks and non-financial costs (discoloration or tooth decay w/ poor hygiene or compliance issues; lowered bone density if the treatment plan moves the teeth too quickly; pain; lots of time driving across town to the ortho). At some point "straight" might become more important than "straight enough" but that time is not now.

[Hyperborea]

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Originally Posted by Fedup IBut you need a car for internships and that's more important for jobs after graduation, even if you did nothing in those internships.

I don't think a car is necessarily needed for an internship. I personally and members of my team have had dozens of interns over the years and I think there were 2 cars total. One was a local kid who had a car and the other bought a car while here and drove it back home. Even some of the younger full-time engineers have no car. Millennials are not driving the same as earlier generations.

25 years ago when I was an intern at well-known computer company I needed no car either. The local bus and a cheap bike that I bought from local classifieds for less than $100 were pretty sufficient. The closest I got to a car was when I house sat and looked after the dog for my manager when he and his family went on vacation. I got use of the car for those two weeks and took a few trips with a hot Swedish intern - good times.

[tinlizzy]

I only have one child - who's 26 now, but the big expenses for him were food $50/week for school lunch (he'd eat breakfast at home and then at school and 2 lunches) plus groceries (he drank a gallon of milk a day and could eat an entire pot roast). Braces were $4,000 out of pocket. Car insurance which everyone has mentioned.

The huge expenses were his torn ACL junior year of high school and an appendicitis his freshman year of college. Each surgery was around $25,000. You can figure out what your cost would be with your insurance.