Inflation watch : 2014 postal rate

[NW-Bound]

I have several relatives who have never owned a computer and don't plan to get one anytime soon. They, and millions of other americans, rely on the post office. The post office won't be scraped entirely for a long time. I do think we can go to 5 day delivery and community drop boxes to reduce the cost significantly. Although the community drop boxes may make things difficult for some elderly or disabled people. They may need some sort of assistance.

I don't believe that we should scrap mailing altogether. Services however should be cut back commensurate with the demand. How about eliminating Saturday delivery? Even delivering mail only on Mon/Wed/Fri should be OK.

Of course the union doesn't want any of that. See Congress wants to end Saturday mail delivery. Postal workers do not..

 

[Danmar]

Don't you think the postal worker union has something to do with that, more than the public at large?

yes, agree

 

[easysurfer]

Are you the one who started this 2011 discussion over on Bogleheads?

Bogleheads - Forever Stamps as an Investment?

That wasn't me. But I like the person's train of thought

 

[ziggy29]

Don't you think the postal worker union has something to do with that, more than the public at large?

Well, in reality it was Congress that basically put a stop to the "6-to-5" plans, saying that the statutes on the books required Saturday delivery and such, so any changes to that had to be passed as an act of Congress.

The APWU and others really didn't have to do anything. They are mostly fighting other battles right now anyway.

 

[Danmar]

I have several relatives who have never owned a computer and don't plan to get one anytime soon. They, and millions of other americans, rely on the post office. The post office won't be scraped entirely for a long time. I do think we can go to 5 day delivery and community drop boxes to reduce the cost significantly. Although the community drop boxes may make things difficult for some elderly or disabled people. They may need some sort of assistance.

OK but over a 10 year period we could do away with it. paper mail just seems so unnecessary to me. Agree it won't happen any time soon but it could. Maybe privatise it. Funny how Americans feel so strongly they should socialize the postal service but not health care?

 

[aaronc879]

I don't believe that we should scrap mailing altogether. Services however should be cut back commensurate with the demand. How about eliminating Saturday delivery? Even delivering mail only on Mon/Wed/Fri should be OK.

Probably wouldn't be ok with the workers who need 40 hours of pay.

 

[ziggy29]

OK but over a 10 year period we could do away with it. paper mail just seems so unnecessary to me. Agree it won't happen any time soon but it could. Maybe privatise it. Funny how Americans feel so strongly they should socialize the postal service but not health care?

Here's the rub. The Postal Service is required to deliver a first-class letter, 1 ounce or less, to *anywhere* in the country (even in the middle of the Alaskan bush, 100+ miles from the nearest town of any size) for 46 cents (soon to be 49 cents). They must do this.

No private entity would be willing to take that deal. Neither UPS or FedEx, both of which are fairly good at what they do, would ever accept that deal. In fact, UPS and FedEx can charge surcharges to out-of-the-way destinations -- or refuse to deliver there at all. These private operations can choose where in the country they wish to "do business". As a result, they don't have to have the infrastructure the USPS has (and contracts with).

This is why the USPS can't, in all practicality, be fully privatized (not to mention the Constitutional equivalent to keep it). As long as these legal requirements are in place, all the talk about privatization is idle chatter. In reality the USPS is, IMO, saddled with the worst aspects of both public and private operations. It is required to be a competitive businesses (in the parcel delivery space) and thus subject to competitive pressures like a private company, but has the legacy cost structure and Congressional mandates set on it as a public entity.

 

[NW-Bound]

Probably wouldn't be ok with the workers who need 40 hours of pay.

The delivery dates to an address may be alternate between Mon/Wed/Fri and Tues/Thu. This week I get mail on Mon/Wed/Fri but the other street gets Tues/Thu. Next week, it will be my turn to get mail 2 days/week.

This way postmen will still have full-time work, but fewer will be needed.

 

[aaronc879]

The delivery dates to an address may be alternate between Mon/Wed/Fri and Tues/Thu. This week I get mail on Mon/Wed/Fri but the other street gets Tues/Thu. Next week, it will be my turn to get mail 2 days/week.

This way postmen will still have full-time work, but fewer will be needed.

I think that is the way to go. Less workers but normal full-time work for the workers left. Just don't cut back so far that the remaining workers are expected to do too much work. That has happened in too many jobs already.

 

[NW-Bound]

I think the postal union wants to protect all of its members. While I understand their stance, when one keeps going against the supply-demand principle of the free market, it never ends well.

 

[aaronc879]

I think the postal union wants to protect all of its members. While I understand their stance, when one keeps going against the supply-demand principle of the free market, it never ends well.

The union probably won't lay-off postal workers. They just shouldn't replace them when they retire or quit.

 

[braumeister]

Stock up on those forever stamps while you can.

I got about $200 worth back when they were about 42 cents each and the stamps are stored in my safe

This all reminds me of when I was living in Brazil back in the 80s.
Long before cell phones, nearly everyone relied on the public pay phones on the street, since the phone company was ridiculously inefficient and it could take years to get a phone installed.

Public pay phones used tokens ("fichas") instead of coins, and you bought them at any newsstand.

Inflation was rampant at the time (triple digit rates), but the number of tokens needed for a phone call never changed.

I realized that this was a marvelous inflation hedge so I bought several hundred dollars worth of tokens. When I left the country, I sold them to a Brazilian friend for slightly more than I had paid for them. He got an incredibly good deal and so did I.

I see the forever stamps acting in the same way, and I just marvel at it.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, in reality it was Congress that basically put a stop to the "6-to-5" plans, saying that the statutes on the books required Saturday delivery and such, so any changes to that had to be passed as an act of Congress...

Thanks. I did not follow this matter that close.

So, OK, why doesn't Congress change the Saturday delivery requirement if it has the power to do so? Or is it afraid of losing votes from some constituents, as usual?

 

[Danmar]

Just seems so 19th century to me. Billions of dollars down the toilet every year. Eventually it will be rationalized. Probably not in my lifetime.

 

[NW-Bound]

Stock up on those forever stamps while you can.

I got about $200 worth back when they were about 42 cents each and the stamps are stored in my safe

I stocked up on floppies, then CD-R and CD-RW when these went on sale.

 

[ziggy29]

I think the postal union wants to protect all of its members. While I understand their stance, when one keeps going against the supply-demand principle of the free market, it never ends well.

Rather than lead this discussion into a pork-flavored argument over unions in general and public unions in particular, I would just say that the worst of the wounds the USPS currently suffers from was inflicted by Congress, IMO, not the unions. It was Congress that insisted on making the USPS fund retiree health care obligations 75 years into the future.... before many of the people who would presumably benefit are even *alive*. And also, as the USPS goes to a more part-time and less unionized work force through retirements and attrition (in other words, like most of the private sector), there will be fewer "career" retirees 50 years from now, let alone 75. Virtually all of its current red ink can be attributed to that mandate.

The USPS has "career" and "non-career" positions. They mean pretty much what you would expect them to; the "careers" are full-time, many are unionized, have solid wages and great benefits. The non-careers are mostly part-timers and contract employees on a much lower wage scale and very few benefits. Almost all hires in recent years have been non-careers, many of them earning less than $12 an hour. (When career positions open up, you may have hundreds of non-careers applying for one career position in some places.) There simply aren't going to *be* many career track employees retiring from there, say, 30-40 years from now. And yet they are funding health care expenses 75 years into the future? Something no other public or private entity has to do? Not to mention that we have no idea what health care will look like 75 years from now!

So, OK, why doesn't Congress change the Saturday delivery requirement if it has the power to do so? Or is it afraid of losing votes from some constituents, as usual?

I don't know, but that's pure politics and I'm not going there on this forum.

 

[clifp]

Between Forever stamps, automatic payments, bill pay, and this year mobile deposit, e-crards, postal increases are complete non event.

I wonder if the folks in charge of calculating inflation take the diminished use of postal services into account,when doing the calculations.

 

[NW-Bound]

I don't know, but that's pure politics and I'm not going there on this forum.

Well, when something supposedly simple becomes complicated, or does not make sense, usually politics is involved. But we all know that.

That said, I will not bring this up again.

 

[Sid77]

Businesses still rely heavily on snail mail. My business uses at least 10k per year in postage. and none of that is for marketing. Mailing statements, payments, legal forms, etc.

 

[Options]

Don't you think the postal worker union has something to do with that, more than the public at large?

+1 Post Office is useless to me. I do everything online. All they do is stuff my mailbox full of junk, despite being on every do not mail list known to man. I rarely check my mail anymore, maybe twice a month, only to find maybe one or two pieces I'm interested in, and the box stuffed absolutely full with downed trees...

 

[scrabbler1]

There should be a thread on how many postal stamps one uses per year and for what purpose.

We use them for:

Christmas cards,
Property tax bills (to avoid the charge for an online payment fee),
Important correspondence (certified, return receipt),

That's about it...maybe 40 stamps per year.

About 25-30 stamps per year for me, just over 1 book of 20 stamps. Only one monthly bill (health insurance) now because I have changed it so often since I ERed and it will change again next year so I don't want to worry about setting up new ACH payments all the time.

I pay my income taxes (annual and estimated) with paper checks because I can use the voucher coupons to aid the processing of them. Only about 5 checks per year there. Auto and homeowners insurance are 3 more. Birthday cards are a few more. Charities give me extra documentation from the canceled check nad I don't like giving out my CC number to solicitors over the phone even if I trust the organization.

Go back 20 years and I bought a book of 20 stamps once every 3 months or so. No wonder the PO is struggling so much.

 

[aja8888]

The union probably won't lay-off postal workers. They just shouldn't replace them when they retire or quit.

The union has no say as to layoffs or terminations. They just represent the worker's contract terms and conditions.

 

[MooreBonds]

The union has no say as to layoffs or terminations. They just represent the worker's contract terms and conditions.

In the "free market", the union can and does actually interfere (to a certain extent) with a private business that employs members of that union. Sometimes, even more so if it involves 'underrepresented workers ' (read: minorities) on certain city projects. Just depends on the city and the union.

So, given that it happens in the "free market", I wouldn't be at all surprised if the postal union has influence over the management's decision on hiring/firing of postal union employees.

 

[aja8888]

In the "free market", the union can and does actually interfere (to a certain extent) with a private business that employs members of that union. Sometimes, even more so if it involves 'underrepresented workers ' (read: minorities) on certain city projects. Just depends on the city and the union.

So, given that it happens in the "free market", I wouldn't be at all surprised if the postal union has influence over the management's decision on hiring/firing of postal union employees.

Yes, I never worked with or for government agencies so I base my union/management experience solely on private industry.

When I was a company manager in Detroit and Connecticut at plants that had several union environments (steel workers, UAW, etc), we did not give the union any contractual mechanism to interfere with layoffs or firing (it may be different now within certain industries).

Back in my time (early 80's - 90s), the union based certain structures on seniority, union leadership privileges, and the ability to file grievances, but that was it. We also had things like 60 day probation periods for new employees that gave us (management) the right to terminate a new employee if he didn't meet the standard of the job within that time period and with the proper training.

 

[Danmar]

+1 Post Office is useless to me. I do everything online. All they do is stuff my mailbox full of junk, despite being on every do not mail list known to man. I rarely check my mail anymore, maybe twice a month, only to find maybe one or two pieces I'm interested in, and the box stuffed absolutely full with downed trees...

+1. just can't seem to stop the junk.