- Joined
- Apr 14, 2006
- Messages
- 23,056
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you think the federal government can better spend the money I might leave behind ( FIRECALC says $1.98) than anyone I might choose to leave it to?
Just remember that Tax revenues are at an all time high despite the Bush tax cuts and our Lousy economy according to the Dems and their buddies in the media.
If we weren't spending a pile of it on war I'm sure the Dems would want to spend it on expanding social programs and not reducing the debt. After all we know the Reps are trying to build bridges to nowhere
One thing you are forgetting is the money you put into an IRA or 401K received a tax benefit going in. It actually saved you taxes and the money is growing tax free while in an IRA or 401K. So your statement is not entirely true.
As far as those with estates over 17 million I really don't care.
Actually, Roth IRA's and non-deductible contributory IRA' did not receive a tax benefit going in. You can refer to the IRS web site for info.
As far as those with estates over 17 million I really don't care.
And why doesn't he care?
I didn't check freein05's other posts - maybe freein05 is one of those lawyers or planners that makes money helping the >$17M estates avoid paying this tax?
I just don't get how the 'wealth redistribution' crowd can support the estate tax, when they know that the really rich don't pay it? No matter which side of the fence you come down on regarding wealth redistribution, this just does not make sense to me.
-ERD50
Why do people call it Redistribution of Wealth? It is a tax just like any other tax. It is used to fund bad things like war and other things like to build the roads you drive on. Those who use the term are basically calling for class warfare. I do not believe in war especially the current one so why should my taxes be Redistributed to finance a war that many wealthy companies are making a killing on.
But I think the estate tax and loopholes is just plain crazy.
-ERD50
just curious, does anyone know the actual percentage of those who qualify to pay the tax that avoid it? seems like the general assumption is that most don't - just wanted to know if there was any data to support this? why would so many push so hard to discard it if they weren't paying it? perhaps just to avoid the PIA to avoid it...
When we were in Napa Ca. we went to the Beringer Winery. They told us about the two brothers that founded it and how it was not owned by a big corporation. Seems like the winery was left to the widows. One died and huge estate taxes were owed and payed, then in the same year the other one died. The estate could not pay the tax without selling the winery. So now Beringers is not family owned. I don't really see how this is a good thing.
Why do people call it Redistribution of Wealth? It is a tax just like any other tax. It is used to fund bad things like war and other things like to build the roads you drive on. Those who use the term are basically calling for class warfare. I do not believe in war especially the current one so why should my taxes be Redistributed to finance a war that many wealthy companies are making a killing on.
... The estate could not pay the tax without selling the winery. So now Beringers is not family owned. I don't really see how this is a good thing.
Well, here is some interesting counter-point...
... only 50 of the 7,026 South Dakotans who passed away left an estate large enough to face even a penny of federal estate tax.
And the current estate tax impacts even fewer families.
Interesting - I keep picking up very mixed messages from the liberal crowd. Maybe someone can explain.
1) I thought liberals hated big corporations and idolized the small family owned mom-pop operations. Yet, this tax can destroy family owned businesses (though I imagine some expensive planners and lawyers could have 'saved them').
2) Since when do we justify being unfair to a group of people, by pointing out that it is a small group? That's a pretty slippery slope. << I decided to delete a colorful analogy here - but not the reference to it >>
I think the moral compass must be getting bumped around a bit too much to give a true North reading?
-ERD50
Bingo!And this is where all wealth re-distribution type thinking falls apart. Do you really think that most people who you consider weathy, consider "themselves" to be wealthy? Most likely not. There is always more money to be had, bigger homes to buy etc. Even owners of that 110' yaht, look with envy on occasion at the 200' yaht. Very few people that I know are 100% content with what they have, and never strive for more. I think this is a constant no matter how much wealth you have.
So my question is this. What if someone who makes considerably less money than you suddenly said.... "Well I do not really care about people with estates over <fill in your own value here> they are weathy anyway!" What is considered "rich" is a completely relative term. If such taxes affected someone with a $ 2mill estate, those people would yell , "Wait... do not tax me I am not rich!!! (looking at those who have a $ 5 mill estate)" And exactly the same thing would happen to those with a $20 mill estate looking at those who make even more. I guess I just find it hypocritical for folks to advocate an esate tax for the rich (whoever those folks might actually be), but not for themselves as well. Just another example of "wanting your cake, and eating it too", you just cannot have it both ways.
Tadpole,I can't stand all the whining about the rights of people who did not earn their money while people who do earn their money are having their SS borrowed and are told "we stole it; it's gone" by the very people that keep spending it as fast as it comes in.
I'm not convinced it's unfair...The $2 mill is going up in 2009...to $3.5 million - which means $7 mill for a couple!
Well, I addressed this before, but once again - the estate tax does a really, really poor job of attacking this issue. If that is what you think we need, you should support an $X limit per person, right? (and then figure out how to do this w/o creating loopholes to help a truly needy child). The Estate tax could be 99%, and I imagine there would still be plenty of money for a Ms Hilton to live an 'unfair' lifestyle.If you allow this massive accumulation of wealth forever, i don't quite see how that is "fair" since very quickly none of the recipients earned anything but by being born into the right family and then the vast majority of us are born into the wrong ones!
What good does using labels like liberals add to this discussion.
That is not the real 'unfairness' I speak of. The major 'unfairness' that I speak of is how the very rich evade the estate tax altogether.
This keeps coming up, but is this a truth or an urban myth? The article quoted earlier had wealthy families donating millions towards eliminating the estate tax. Gates and Buffet are giving their $ away.
Sure, I can avoid taxes by giving away everything, there's just not much future in it.