IRS Going Paperless?

[JOHNNIE36]

Had our 2011 income taxes done yesterday. There is a group tax help here in our community where everyone can get their taxes done free. It is sponsored by AARP and all the workers are volunteers. The final document is reviewed by onsite AARP certified professionals. Nice service and the thing that kind of got me was how everything has to be done by efile. We ended up owing $714. I thought they would print out the return, we would take it home, write a check and mail it in. They insisted we efile the return and do a debit from our checking account at least by April 15. We agreed to do this and the AARP rep told us that the IRS is really stressing a paperless system. The only way to get your taxes done there was by agreeing to efile.

Was wondering going forward, how a paperless system will work for all the filers out there that still don't use TaxAct or Turbo Tax or some other system. I guess people that aren't computer savy will have to get their taxes done by someone.

 

[frank]

I think they want to go paperless, but to make everyone efile is going to be difficult. I pay my estimated taxes with a paper check and a form every 3 months and it wasn't clearing my checking account for quite a while and I thought it might have gotten lost in the mail, so, I called the state revenue office and they said I should be doing online payments instead of paper. they pretty much said that they prefer online taxes and payments, but as yet don't require it. The free tax software and efiling is great right now, because it is free and quite easy. Once they get everyone going in that direction free will be a thing of the past, just like the paper forms. Even now if your taxes are somewhat complicated you have to buy the software, update it annually, and pay for efile to the state. I think that efiling saves the government tons of money, but does little for the taxpayer.

 

[scrabbler1]

I don't think the IRS can ever go totally paperless. There are people who live in the middle of nowhere or are physically unable to access others or a PC to file electronically. And thanks to those people, others like me who have no desire to file electronically will still be able to file the same way I have since the mid-1980s, with pen and paper no matter how complicated those taxes have been.

 

[prototype]

JMHO - if the IRS goes paperless there will be alot of people that just won't file, mostly lower income people. Hopefully they'll be smart enough to put alot of Federal deductions on their W-4.I was so iritated with Intuit/TT and now the IRS and Federal Govt's 4 billion page tax code, I had been thinking about going back to the old paper filing next year.

A little off topic - I went to paper filing my Virginia Tax return for 2010 and 2011 after the State's lawmakers decided to eliminate what was called the Ifile system and require to use one of the commercial electronic services or file by paper. Ifile was free for everyone and simple to use, and I had used it for years. The commercial services are free depending on your income level. Anyway I was so P'O'ed, I filed paper even though I had my one "free" TT state return. Sort of a rebellion statement especially after reading about the lobbying effort/dollars that went into getting Va. to eliminate their Ifile system.

 

[SJ1_]

Had our 2011 income taxes done yesterday. There is a group tax help here in our community where everyone can get their taxes done free. It is sponsored by AARP and all the workers are volunteers. The final document is reviewed by onsite AARP certified professionals. Nice service and the thing that kind of got me was how everything has to be done by efile. We ended up owing $714. I thought they would print out the return, we would take it home, write a check and mail it in. They insisted we efile the return and do a debit from our checking account at least by April 15. We agreed to do this and the AARP rep told us that the IRS is really stressing a paperless system. The only way to get your taxes done there was by agreeing to efile.

Was wondering going forward, how a paperless system will work for all the filers out there that still don't use TaxAct or Turbo Tax or some other system. I guess people that aren't computer savy will have to get their taxes done by someone.

what if you get audited?
I e-file every year but I can print out my returns (TT)

 

[Independent]

I'm still filing on paper.

But I use the fillable pdf files the IRS provides. I assume that when the paper hits their office they read the numbers into a data file with a machine, make an image of the paper, then throw away the paper.

I do the same for the state. With the state, the hardest part might have been trying to find the mailing address. They hid it behind 3 screens worth of promotions for e-filing.

I would do the e-filing if the IRS and state gave me a free software package to do it. As close as I can tell, I need to pay somebody to e-file (at least for the state form). That doesn't seem right.

 

[Midpack]

I don't think the IRS can ever go totally paperless. There are people who live in the middle of nowhere or are physically unable to access others or a PC to file electronically. And thanks to those people, others like me who have no desire to file electronically will still be able to file the same way I have since the mid-1980s, with pen and paper no matter how complicated those taxes have been.

I hope the IRS does go paperless, way more efficient for all concerned.

And "physically unable to access others or a PC" isn't going to be workable forever. Lots of people use PC's at libraries already. I am sure there were people who never wanted to get a phone, or get a car long ago. Eventually those people have to get on board, or make their own provisions to comply...

 

[easysurfer]

Going paperless is okay, until one spots a mistake. Then a paper copy is needed to scrutinize the error

 

[ratto]

what if you get audited?

Maybe from the perspective of IRS, this is an unintended but desirable ramification of e-filing?

Without good paper files and all supporting paper documents in hand, nobody stands a chance to challenge IRS in the US federal tax court. We have already seen paperless bank notes can be created out of thin air in these days. The SS statement is also on the same wagon. I don't know what's going to be the next. But I do know that the burden of proof is on me if there is any dispute down the road. So at least I plan to keep all my pay stubs till my SS and medicare kick in. You will never know.

 

[Rustward]

So at least I plan to keep all my pay stubs till my SS and medicare kick in. You will never know.

Just so you know, many employers have gone electronic (paperless) with their pay stubs.

 

[easysurfer]

what if you get audited?
I e-file every year but I can print out my returns (TT)

+1. I too efile each year with TT. But print out a hard copy and save my returns to a PDF file for future reference if needed.

 

[scrabbler1]

I hope the IRS does go paperless, way more efficient for all concerned.

And "physically unable to access others or a PC" isn't going to be workable forever. Lots of people use PC's at libraries already. I am sure there were people who never wanted to get a phone, or get a car long ago. Eventually those people have to get on board, or make their own provisions to comply...

I disagree. What about the growing number of elderly and disabled who can't drive and may not be able to access or own a PC? The only way they can get tax forms is to write the IRS or call a toll-free phone number and get the forms mailed to them to complete themselves. And we tell PC users all the time not to use public ones for doing very personal tasks such as banking. I would not suggest to anyone to e-file at a public library's PC.

Telling them to "get on board of make their own provisions to comply" seems pretty cold-hearted and insensitive to me......

Paper returns may continue to decline but they are not going anywhere any time soon.

 

[Midpack]

I disagree. What about the growing number of elderly and disabled who can't drive and may not be able to access or own a PC? The only way they can get tax forms is to write the IRS or call a toll-free phone number and get the forms mailed to them to complete themselves. And we tell PC users all the time not to use public ones for doing very personal tasks such as banking. I would not suggest to anyone to e-file at a public library's PC.

Telling them to "get on board of make their own provisions to comply" seems pretty cold-hearted and insensitive to me......

Paper returns may continue to decline but they are not going anywhere any time soon.

I don't know when, but not "any time soon" is probably right.

The elderly have always needed and gotten assistance where needed, we have to provide for DW's elderly Mom right now. There are just things she can't or won't do for herself, just a fact of life.

I would never use a library PC for my taxes either, but there are folks who regularly use library PC's for Internet access including transactions at my local library now. And many people are doing their returns online now, something I'm afraid of myself (I download TT to my PC, though I do eFile like 70% of filers - read on haha's thread).

Was it "cold-hearted and insensitive" to expect people to give up horses for cars? Slide rules for calculators? Word of mouth for telephones? Mail for internet? I didn't mean the elderly need to change ASAP, but societal norms do change over time...that's all I was pointing out, sorry you were offended.

 

[scrabbler1]

I don't know when, but not "any time soon" is probably right. The elderly have always needed and gotten assistance where needed, we have to provide for DW's elderly Mom right now. There are just things she can't or won't do for herself, just a fact of life.

I would never use a library PC for my taxes either, but there are folks who regularly use library PC's for Internet access including transactions at my local library now. And many people are doing their returns online now, something I'm afraid of myself (I download TT to my PC, though I do eFile like 70% of filers).

Was it cold-hearted and insensitive to expect people to give up horses for cars? Slide rules for calculators? Word of mouth for telephones? Mail for internet? I didn't mean the elderly need to change ASAP, but societal norms do change over time...

The difference between your list of questions about being cold-hearted and insensitive is that none of those are required by law, with penalties for failure to comply. But filing a tax return is required unless one meets some very specific conditions. So making that required task so needlessly difficult for some people (such as your MIL) to the extent that it becomes impossible is IMHO cold-hearted and insensitive.

 

[kaneohe]

what if you get audited?
I e-file every year but I can print out my returns (TT)

AARP Tax Aide clients get a paper copy for their files even tho the return
itself is e-filed.

 

[Midpack]

The difference between your list of questions about being cold-hearted and insensitive is that none of those are required by law, with penalties for failure to comply. But filing a tax return is required unless one meets some very specific conditions. So making that required task so needlessly difficult for some people (such as your MIL) to the extent that it becomes impossible is IMHO cold-hearted and insensitive.

I don't think you can legally ride a horse to work, shopping, etc. any more - I am sure there would be penalties if you did. Though not legally required, not having a phone wouldn't exempt you from any number of tasks that require a phone, so access is virtually required.

I am all for the IRS or any government agency improving efficiency and reducing costs, now more important than ever with our deficits. Going paperless isn't "needlessly difficult" either IMHO, so we disagree, no problem...

 

[Free To Canoe]

The IRS is a little more stick than carrot. They require that you include a speical form if you paper file.

 

[scrabbler1]

The IRS is a little more stick than carrot. They require that you include a speical form if you paper file.

What special form? I see nothing in the instruction booklet. And 1040-V, a relatively new form (the payment voucher form), is not required either.

 

[easysurfer]

I know it's a matter of choice. For me I e-file because IMHO it's more convenient. I'd much rather sit in front of my computer and check my email than physically go to the post office or look for a scale for proper postage.

 

[rescueme]

I don't think you can legally ride a horse to work, shopping, etc. any more...

Might be, if gas gets too expensive!

 

[samclem]

I would do the e-filing if the IRS and state gave me a free software package to do it. As close as I can tell, I need to pay somebody to e-file (at least for the state form). That doesn't seem right.

Amen. The IRS pushes e-filing as being easier, more accurate, and saving the government money, so why not make it free? Because (IIRC) the IRS cut a deal with tax prep software makers not to make their own govt efile system but instead to use the commercial system(s) that belong to the software makers. It's simply a way to offer them a govt-sanctioned monopoly. And giving away free tax-filing to low-income folks just adds insult to injury--what kind of cr*p is that? Make it easy and free for low income people to comply with a government mandate, but everyone else will be forced to pay postage or buy software? If e-filing saves taxpayers money, why doesn't the government make it free and convenient for everyone to do it?

I've filed on paper before as my own little rebellious (and futile) "stick-it-to-the-man" gesture.

 

[Free To Canoe]

What special form? I see nothing in the instruction booklet. And 1040-V, a relatively new form (the payment voucher form), is not required either.

Perhaps I am mistaken.

 

[jimnjana]

We agreed to do this and the AARP rep told us that the IRS is really stressing a paperless system. The only way to get your taxes done there was by agreeing to efile.

.

I volunteer with the IRS Tax assistance program, same program as AARP sponsors. We don't require efile, it is at option of taxpayer. We ask if the client wants to efile and let them know if that they will get their refund faster by efile. In fact some returns cannot be efiled so we let them know that they have to file by paper return. I'd be curious if AARP requires efile or if this volunteer just didn't know what he was talking about.

 

[Alan]

I volunteer with the IRS Tax assistance program, same program as AARP sponsors. We don't require efile, it is at option of taxpayer. We ask if the client wants to efile and let them know if that they will get their refund faster by efile. In fact some returns cannot be efiled so we let them know that they have to file by paper return. I'd be curious if AARP requires efile or if this volunteer just didn't know what he was talking about.

I volunteered last year through the AARP Taxaide program, and we were told that the IRS wanted us to greatly increase our e-filing percentage, and only file by paper when e-file is not possible. Since the IRS provides all the training materials and documentation, plus the Taxwise software, it seems very reasonable that, to get your taxes done for free, you should e-file. Filers could opt to mail in a check if they owed, or get a check for a refund, even though they e-file. (some folks just don't want to give bank details to the IRS)

They were also provided with a hard copy of their return.

 

[GrayHare]

If the IRS is collecting data in paperless fashion from all sources, it should be a simple matter for their computer to total my numbers, and send me a bill for whatever I owe. If there are certain non-reported elements, such as deductable expenses, I can file just that data. Now THAT's what I'd call paperless.