Is EVERTHING desirable?

[ERD50]

I wore out my good one and bought a cheapie. Have replaced a lot of vinyl with CDs at Goodwill or other resale shops. Yes, I know, the vinyl is supposed to sound better, but my ears are not as good as Neil Young who is a big proponent of vinyl. YMMV

Well, vinyl sounds different.

Whether someone prefers that sound (or the experience) is a personal matter. Though I am skeptical of anyone claiming LPs are objectively better than a well recorded CD.

I certainly prefer the LP jackets to what comes with a CD or a stream.

-ERD50

 

[kgtest]

Maybe it's time to bust out the beanie babies and see what I can fetch...or the pogs...or maybe my old baseball cards.

I have a bunch of baseball cards from the 80s. Not sure if they would be worth anything today, no clue where to go check. Where would be a good place to check? Or should I just pass them down to the grandkids someday?

 

[Koolau]

Well, vinyl sounds different.

Whether someone prefers that sound (or the experience) is a personal matter. Though I am skeptical of anyone claiming LPs are objectively better than a well recorded CD.

I certainly prefer the LP jackets to what comes with a CD or a stream.

-ERD50

I agree completely. But the audiophiles will point out the CDs actually leave out (what?) 95% of the "sound" and your ears make up the difference, I guess. It works for me, but not for Neil. YMMV

 

[ERD50]

I agree completely. But the audiophiles will point out the CDs actually leave out (what?) 95% of the "sound" and your ears make up the difference, I guess. It works for me, but not for Neil. YMMV

This might be major thread drift (or maybe not, some vinyl is now a collectible, so 'desirable'), but I'm not familiar with the claim that a CD leaves out some high % of sound. Maybe you are thinking of compressed audio, like mp3?

Compression algorithms, like mp3, objectively do remove some of the sound. That's a fact. Whether one can hear it, or be aware of it, is another matter (some definitely will hear a difference, some won't - but there is a difference, that is my point).

If someone is claiming that the sample quantization used for a CD is "leaving out" some high % of the sound, I suspect they don't really understand sampling theory. It took me a while to understand this, but sampling introduces audible noise, which is greatly reduced by creative dithering techniques ( which, counter-intuitively, introduce some high frequency noise into the mix). A well recorded CD with proper dithering applied, has a low noise floor, and can and does reproduce sounds below the 16 bit threshold (the noise raises them up, to be captured).

I know that dithering seems like it would cause all sorts of problems, but I've done a deep dive into this, and it works amazingly well.

As far as Neil Young, well, anyone (not just a Southern Man) can claim to hear anything they say the hear. I've pretty much given up arguing those points with people like that, they want to believe it (or have an agenda), so nothing will change their mind. Now, I can accept that some people may hear things I can't (especially now with mild tinnitus), but for me, there at least needs to be some physics related basis for it (and there can be many very subtle things - the ear-mind connection is very sensitive and complex). But if we are in an area that we have a good understanding of, and the laws of physics say there can be no difference between A and B, then I am highly skeptical that anyone can detect a difference. Most of this can be tested in well designed experiments. But those people will just ignore the science.

-ERD50

 

[Badger]

Even if I was a Warhol fan I'd still think the $195m for a painting is nuts.
https://www.axios.com/2022/05/10/warhol-marilyn-monroe-painting-auctioned-195-million

I'm not a Warhol fan and it is extremely nuts. The majority of his "stuff" is so repetitive he uses the same lithographs and just slaps a different splash of color on them and cranks them out like a copy machine.

Cheers!

 

[Koolau]

This might be major thread drift (or maybe not, some vinyl is now a collectible, so 'desirable'), but I'm not familiar with the claim that a CD leaves out some high % of sound. Maybe you are thinking of compressed audio, like mp3?

Compression algorithms, like mp3, objectively do remove some of the sound. That's a fact. Whether one can hear it, or be aware of it, is another matter (some definitely will hear a difference, some won't - but there is a difference, that is my point).

If someone is claiming that the sample quantization used for a CD is "leaving out" some high % of the sound, I suspect they don't really understand sampling theory. It took me a while to understand this, but sampling introduces audible noise, which is greatly reduced by creative dithering techniques ( which, counter-intuitively, introduce some high frequency noise into the mix). A well recorded CD with proper dithering applied, has a low noise floor, and can and does reproduce sounds below the 16 bit threshold (the noise raises them up, to be captured).

I know that dithering seems like it would cause all sorts of problems, but I've done a deep dive into this, and it works amazingly well.

As far as Neil Young, well, anyone (not just a Southern Man) can claim to hear anything they say the hear. I've pretty much given up arguing those points with people like that, they want to believe it (or have an agenda), so nothing will change their mind. Now, I can accept that some people may hear things I can't (especially now with mild tinnitus), but for me, there at least needs to be some physics related basis for it (and there can be many very subtle things - the ear-mind connection is very sensitive and complex). But if we are in an area that we have a good understanding of, and the laws of physics say there can be no difference between A and B, then I am highly skeptical that anyone can detect a difference. Most of this can be tested in well designed experiments. But those people will just ignore the science.

-ERD50

Yeah, just repeating what I've heard and that can be problematic. No personal knowledge about CDs vs vinyl. Personally, I like CDs cause there's no pop and less hiss. By the way, I think NY is a great writer/performer. But "I hope Neil Young will remember..." He's not my source on what kind of medium (or podcasts ) I should listen to.

 

[CO-guy]

I love trying to figure out "What's next", and I think there will be some unexpected outcomes from all of this. What if everyone is upside down by 30% on their car or home loans, for example? Or once markets stabilize will there be a glut of supply crashing against a lack of demand due to people overbuying? It's intriguing.

When the housing/financial crash of 2008 happened it was easy to see after the fact. It kills me to know the hints are out there now, we just have to piece them together!

I felt like the 2008 crash was obvious aside from the exact timing. I owned two duplexes at the time and sold them both in late-2006 and early-2007. Friends mocked me for refusing to join them in buying multiple 4-plexes in 2006. And when I sold my own properties, one friend even set up a shared spreadsheet to show all of our friends how much money I lost by selling my properties (note: zillow estimates of the homes I sold remained below my sale price until 2019).

While I believe there are a variety of reasons why home prices have risen dramatically, some of those reasons aren't going away. We live in an isolated area and affordable labor is now gone because there's nowhere affordable to live. Contractors used to pay $35/hr for labor. Now it's $60-75/hr if you can find someone willing to drive 2 hours to get here and sleep in their truck for a few days. Trades went from $85/hr to $135/hr and they still can't hire enough qualified help. In addition, petro products have skyrocketed even compared to other building materials and estimates on new construction in our area are now in the $350-500/sf range, so I'm not convinced we're going to see the same severity of crash that occurred in 2008.

 

[CO-guy]

Well, vinyl sounds different.

Whether someone prefers that sound (or the experience) is a personal matter. Though I am skeptical of anyone claiming LPs are objectively better than a well recorded CD.

I certainly prefer the LP jackets to what comes with a CD or a stream.

-ERD50

I'm still using my parents Technics SL-D2 direct drive turntable. The biggest improvement in sound quality was when I upgraded to an Ortofon needle. I listen to a lot of digital music but prefer the richness of vinyl for soul/gospel vocalists and reggae.

I inherited several hundred records and have continued to grow my collection for both pleasure and as an investment. Though I enjoy listening to Jazz, first press 'mono' jazz records are outside my price range for collecting. Instead I have been focusing on collecting first press 'stereo' editions of mostly female vocalists: Nina Simone, Dionna Warwick, Gladys Night, Mahalia Jackson, etc. Even a first press (Netherlands) of Blondie's Parallel Lines on clear acrylic.

Basically, I just really take my time buying the right version of albums I like to spin and much of what I've been collecting continues to go up in value.

 

[Car-Guy]

Yes, I know, the vinyl is supposed to sound better, but my ears are not as good as Neil Young who is a big proponent of vinyl. YMMV

I've always "heard" (no pun intended) that vinyl sounds better. But like many here, my hearing is not what it once was so I don't know that I could really tell the difference. We still have a good turntable and speaker system and I'll admit, I like to listen to records on it when I'm at home. Maybe that's partly due to the fact that I have somethings on vinyl that I don't have on CD's or a memory stick.

 

[Fermion]

Funny you should mention pinball machines. I sold my $1400 Twilight Zone and The Addams Family for over $6k each 6 years ago and now you would be lucky to find a TZ for $10k.

Who knew that pinball machines would be one of the better investments!

 

[Which Roger]

Maybe it's time to bust out the beanie babies and see what I can fetch...or the pogs...or maybe my old baseball cards.

I have a bunch of baseball cards from the 80s. Not sure if they would be worth anything today, no clue where to go check. Where would be a good place to check? Or should I just pass them down to the grandkids someday?

80s was the beginning of the junk era for cards, due to over-production, so whatever you have would have to be in pristine condition to be worth much. Go to ebay and look at sold listings, psacard.com for recent sales of graded cards, oldsportscards.com and cardboardconnection.com for general info about the cards and sets. But again, condition is everything for that era, so don't get over-excited about the prices they show for pristine cards.

 

[Koolau]

Back in the 70s I got into collecting/trading/selling antique glass (Carnival Glass, Heisey, Depression Glass, etc.) I made a fair amount of money at it and met a lot of people around the country at sales and shows. It was a nice diversion with a fair amount of vacation travel paid for by profits from sales.

I kind of got tired of it just about the time the bottom fell out of most of that type of collectables. SO, now I have one cabinet full of stuff I could never sell and it serves as a reminder that collectables are usually fads (think Beanie Babies.) Lesson well learned at an affordable price. YMMV

 

[John Galt III]

I'm still using my parents Technics SL-D2 direct drive turntable. The biggest improvement in sound quality was when I upgraded to an Ortofon needle. I listen to a lot of digital music but prefer the richness of vinyl for soul/gospel vocalists and reggae.

I inherited several hundred records and have continued to grow my collection for both pleasure and as an investment. Though I enjoy listening to Jazz, first press 'mono' jazz records are outside my price range for collecting. Instead I have been focusing on collecting first press 'stereo' editions of mostly female vocalists: Nina Simone, Dionna Warwick, Gladys Night, Mahalia Jackson, etc. Even a first press (Netherlands) of Blondie's Parallel Lines on clear acrylic.

Basically, I just really take my time buying the right version of albums I like to spin and much of what I've been collecting continues to go up in value.

I really like a good female voice. I think vinyl is best for getting a realistic voice. Foe example, Roberta Flack. Nothing beats a live performance, though, I think.

 

[Delawaredave5]

I think:

1. Collectibles today are overpriced because Baby Boomers are buying up
2. The next generation doesn't care about "stuff"

When the Baby Boomers dump this junk, there'll be no one to buy (either don't want and/or can't afford it)

Fortunately I'm becoming a "minimalist" and love getting rid of "stuff" - and it is a great time to sell....

 

[zippy2020]

Never had the money to do any serious collecting when we were younger. However, we're sci-fi fans and so were spurred by a rather memorable 1977 movie to collect the first year of special edition comics.

Yeah...that was Star Wars! In 1989 when we were packing up our apt to move into our first home, I asked my Gen X niece if she wanted our Star Wars comics. They were in perfect condition, stored in a file cabinet.

She was absolutely THRILLED, being a sci-fi fan and gaming nerd herself. Her gaming friends were tremendously impressed that she had relatives who collected such cool stuff.

So yeah, forget the silver and antique lamps, LOL.

But seriously - we were happy that somebody wanted them, and she was happy to have them. None of us care whether they're worth anything on eBay.

My spouse is a lifetime wargamer. The old style, with hundreds of figures of different armies, both historical and fantasy. He told me if he dies, to just junk them. Younger wargamers don't play the same kind of games he does - one figure will "stand in" for an entire horde of soldiers. So except for a troop of Turkish cavalry that is the only project we worked on together, out everything will go.....

 

[disneysteve]

Back in the 70s I got into collecting/trading/selling antique glass (Carnival Glass, Heisey, Depression Glass, etc.)

I kind of got tired of it just about the time the bottom fell out of most of that type of collectables. SO, now I have one cabinet full of stuff I could never sell

Have you checked recently? All of that stuff sells very actively on ebay. I don't know how good the prices are but a quick search showed dozens of sold items in those categories.

collectables are usually fads (think Beanie Babies.)

I don't think that's broadly true. Certainly there are fads. Beanie Babies are the textbook example. But plenty of other categories of collectables have been popular for decades. I've been selling Disney memorabilia for 35 years and the market is just as hot today as it was when I started in the 1980s. Which particular items are in demand changes over time but the Disney collecting community certainly hasn't gone away.

 

[disneysteve]

I think:

1. Collectibles today are overpriced because Baby Boomers are buying up
2. The next generation doesn't care about "stuff"

1. Collectibles are worth whatever someone else is willing to pay. They're never overpriced or underpriced. They're worth what they're worth at that moment.


2. I agree that younger generations tend to be more focused on experiences than things, but collecting is still alive and well. It largely revolves around nostalgia. People get older, start to have more disposable income, and use it to buy things that remind them of their youth. For example, right now stuff from the 80s and 90s is really selling well because those "kids" are now established adults and they're out searching for the toys and things they had when they were young. Simple things like plush figures from then are selling for $50-100 and more.

 

[ERD50]

I really like a good female voice. I think vinyl is best for getting a realistic voice. Foe example, Roberta Flack. Nothing beats a live performance, though, I think.

Especially if it is totally acoustic, no "PA" speakers or bad "sound engineer" to get in the way.

Too many live performances are ruined by the sound system and/or the person at the mixing board (louder is better!).

-ERD50

 

[SJhawkins]

Not to derail the vinyl talk....but...I work in the engineering side of things in commercial construction. The prices for material is insane not to mention labor as we have no one build anything anymore, toss in supply chain issues (dealing with switchgear that is out now until 2023!). I was thinking last year this was going to tank fast, I was wrong. I'm starting to see some cracks now, it could get really ugly fast. I have the itch for a new RV and or cabin, I'm not buying squat.

 

[Koolau]

Have you checked recently? All of that stuff sells very actively on ebay. I don't know how good the prices are but a quick search showed dozens of sold items in those categories.



I don't think that's broadly true. Certainly there are fads. Beanie Babies are the textbook example. But plenty of other categories of collectables have been popular for decades. I've been selling Disney memorabilia for 35 years and the market is just as hot today as it was when I started in the 1980s. Which particular items are in demand changes over time but the Disney collecting community certainly hasn't gone away.

Thanks, I'll have to take a look. Never have sold on eBay before though I used anebay service to sell stuff like old watches. I only have one major glass collection left plus odds and ends in one cabinet. Would be nice to empty the cabinet. Aloha

 

[JoeWras]

Especially if it is totally acoustic, no "PA" speakers or bad "sound engineer" to get in the way.



Too many live performances are ruined by the sound system and/or the person at the mixing board (louder is better!).



-ERD50

And they mix the vocals through auto tune and other processing. So what is live?

Back to topic.... A friend started a boutique store last year and she makes a ton of money off of vinyl. I built some LP display cases for her gratis. I should have charged her after hearing how they are helping the sales go through.

 

[Bunker]

On the market(s), couldn't resist wading in with my own brokerage account when all this COVID stuff started. Figured we wouldn't be flying/traveling much, so why not divert and use that money in the meantime. Who knew it would turn into a 3-year+ odyssey though, and a bunch of vulnerable folks would lose their lives, jobs, and businesses. Ugh. :-(


Casually monitored the 'news' headlines, waiting for the emotional drama merchants on Wall St. to freak out about something, start breaking things, then quietly sweep up the bits and pieces off the floor. Those kids will eventually get bored with that and create a rally out of nothing, and the television/internet talking heads will report breathlessly to feed it.


Hang out on the ride up then wait for the next event triggering the kids into breaking stuff again, as I wait and watch, broom and dustpan at the ready. Wash, rinse, repeat.



Not original or clever in anyway, and I'm not Mr. Money Bags by any means, but managed to collect a nice little set of holdings this way over the last 3 years.

 

[CO-guy]

I really like a good female voice. I think vinyl is best for getting a realistic voice. Foe example, Roberta Flack. Nothing beats a live performance, though, I think.

Not sure it's the best approach, but I've been collecting what I like to listen to in genres where I am familiar. Even if they turn out to be worthless, they're still of personal value to me.

Also, not sure if I agree that boomers are the last collectors. GenXers seem to be making a solid push to acquire things from their youth: Cars, luxury goods and childhood toys. Just not things like brown furniture and silver/china.

 

[John Galt III]

Especially if it is totally acoustic, no "PA" speakers or bad "sound engineer" to get in the way.

Too many live performances are ruined by the sound system and/or the person at the mixing board (louder is better!).

-ERD50

I am lucky to be close to three universities with excellent music departments. My favorite is a small acoustically nice amphitheater where they hold operatic voice recitals every so often. Never any electronics involved in the sound. Just some symphony instruments and the voices. The singers are well trained, of course, and have beautiful voices to begin with.

 

[John Galt III]

Yeah, just repeating what I've heard and that can be problematic. No personal knowledge about CDs vs vinyl. Personally, I like CDs cause there's no pop and less hiss. By the way, I think NY is a great writer/performer. But "I hope Neil Young will remember..." He's not my source on what kind of medium (or podcasts ) I should listen to.

I think some music sounds 'best' on an AM car radio (supposedly the worst medium for music?). Some music just sounds like it was meant to be listened to on an AM radio, maybe lots of 60's stuff. I never knew 'Under My Thumb' (Stones) had a marimba until I heard it 5 years ago on my AM car radio. Your Mileage May Vary, ha ha.