Is Everyone a Multi-Millionaire?

[explanade]

What is cost sharing in the context of the ACA?

[photoguy]

From covered-ca

Quote:

Cost-sharing subsidies: Cost-sharing subsidies reduce the out-of-pocket amount of health care expenses an individual or family has to pay. These expenses might include copayments for health care services or other costs you pay when you get services. To find out more about cost-sharing subsidies, visit Individuals &* Families.

On covered ca the cost sharing can reduce max oop to ~2k instead of 6k.

[ejman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermion Only silver plans allow cost sharing. Bronze plans don't work for cost sharing. Silver baby, that is the way to go if you can control your income.

I guess I must be the only dummkopf that went straight to a bronze plan without bothering to check whether I qualified for silver subsidies or not. Sometimes being a multi in investable assets as the OP posted gives one the option of being generous with the public treasury and who knows, maybe some Karma is generated or then again maybe not... in these peculiar times we live in.

[Fermion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejman I guess I must be the only dummkopf that went straight to a bronze plan without bothering to check whether I qualified for silver subsidies or not. Sometimes being a multi in investable assets as the OP posted gives one the option of being generous with the public treasury and who knows, maybe some Karma is generated or then again maybe not... in these peculiar times we live in.

I doubt you would qualify if you are a multi millionaire already retired. To get the cost sharing you have to have a REALLY low MAGI (around $14,000 to $20,000). If you have multiple millions and even part of them is in bonds, you probably make more than $20,000 just in interest. Muni bonds count.

[GTFan]

Actually it's up to 250% of FPL to get cost sharing for Silvers, which for a family of two is a rather generous $38,750 or so MAGI. My plan is to stay under 200% so my max OOP would only be 13% of covered expenses. This is very easy to do if living solely off of port WDs (and you don't need/want more than $50k to live on a year).

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/feat...subsidies.aspx

Here's an example from that link:
In California, for example, a standard silver plan will have a $2,000 deductible, a $6,400 maximum out-of-pocket limit and a $45 copayment for a primary care office visit. Someone whose income is between 150 and 200 of the poverty level, on the other hand, will have a silver plan with a $500 deductible, a $2,250 maximum out-of-pocket limit and $15 copays for primary care doctor visits.

And greatly reduced premiums with subsidies, of course. I've seen quotes here for $150/mo. or so for a Silver with that income for two people.

[Fermion]

How do you prove the income for the cost sharing portion? We have had discussions about the subsidy portion and how you can get the refund at tax time. If you know your income is going to be $30,000 a year from interest and dividends but the previous year you had W2 income of $260,000, do you just have to go one year without cost sharing or is there some way to convince them that your income has really dropped.

It is my understanding that cost sharing is a use it or lose it. The cost sharing is not refundable at tax time if you were eligible but didn't get it during the year.

[GTFan]

Yes, you have to file with your lower projected income for the year to get the cost sharing - if you don't do this and try to recapture subsidies at tax time you lose the sharing part. From what I have read you send them your letter of retirement from work along with whatever else they want to justify income in the new year (interest/dividend/cap gains tax statements or maybe a copy of last years tax return with a note that wages are zero going forward).

I haven't done this yet (will be 2016 for me to get subsidies if everything goes as planned) so I am interested to hear what the experience has been for new retirees claiming the subsidy. Looks like you've been active in this thread so you know as much as I do after reading their experiences. Can't find much on the web about it.

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermion How do you prove the income for the cost sharing portion? We have had discussions about the subsidy portion and how you can get the refund at tax time. If you know your income is going to be $30,000 a year from interest and dividends but the previous year you had W2 income of $260,000, do you just have to go one year without cost sharing or is there some way to convince them that your income has really dropped. It is my understanding that cost sharing is a use it or lose it. The cost sharing is not refundable at tax time if you were eligible but didn't get it during the year.

I had that issue, 150k to 29k. All I did was answer 'yes our income has changed' on one question. They never asked for any proof. I remember other members saying they were asked for more documentation, IIRC folks sent in anything they had(brokerage statements etc.). I've never read where anyone was kicked out, but I could be wrong.

I remember the truing up the same as you do, subsidies get adjusted with 2014 income tax, to my knowledge cost sharing is use it or lose it, with no method to adjust either direction after the fact.

To me, this decision is a normal part of fine tuning the law after implementation. I opted, instead of a bigger Roth conversion, for the cost sharing this year for two reasons. 1) I was having a lot of health issues at the end of last year. 2) I assumed the law would be adjusted somehow.

[Meadbh]

The last couple of pages of posts have predominantly focused on the details of implementation of the Affordable Care Act in the US. Does this not merit a dedicated thread?

[GTFan]

Did you overlook all the OT healthy eating stuff in this thread? It's already way off the rails.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh The last couple of pages of posts have predominantly focused on the details of implementation of the Affordable Care Act in the US. Does this not merit a dedicated thread?

I guess after 365 posts it's hard to stay on topic. Still, there are many ACA threads with a wealth of detail on implementation, plans, subsidies, metal levels and qualifications.

[sheldon cornped]

Since this is a long thread, I'm not sure if anyone made reference to this Boglehead survey. This one has enough information to make your head spin. You can even submit your own. Clicking on the tabs in the spreadsheet will reveal graphs etc... showing you where your individual net worth is compared to others. Needless to say, a whole bunch of 1 and 2%ers.

Net worth is broken down into 5 categories of assets, and 5 categories of debt. The results can be viewed in a spreadsheet within Google, but only I can edit the cells. Please leave suggestions for plots and calculations in this thread. This is for Household Net Worth. I left a comments box at the end to mention your marital status, degree, school, etc.

Form: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ZDYVE6MQ#gid=0
Results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Ek1U19PRXZDYVE

[RobLJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dd564 Reading this forum, I was wondering the same thing as the OP posted. I feel really poor when reading these forums, but from net worth calculators, I think I'm in the top quarter or so for my age. I've never had a great salary, and much of my wealth is in the two houses I own, which makes me look even poorer in comparison. I just keep telling myself I'm hanging out with the top 5-10% on here and that I'll get there.

This indicates that you are doing very well, particularly given the home ownership--it's all relative.

I was a little disturbed by the google survey summary (was it based on Bogle forum participants or here on Fire?) since it appeared net worth, portfolio and debt level were on median. I used family levels--if not I would have been much lower on the totem pole. So yes, we're hanging out with a predominantly rarified company here on FIRE (or the Bogleheads, if that was the population surveyed).

[lampshade]

I get the more money you have in retirement the better off you are. But did anyone here retire and NOT be a millionaire?

I figure we will retire with $900,000 and no bills when I hit 62. Our guestimate will be living for at least 30 years after retirement.

From 62 to Medicare we're covered with insurance that (as of now) we are not paying for.

How did you do it? Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lampshade How did you do it? Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Welcome to the forum, lampshade. Your profile says that you are a "poor saver". If that means you are poor, but saving, great! But if it means that you don't save very much, fixing that is the most important step towards a secure retirement. Everyone on this board aspires to LBYM.

LBYM = Living Below Your Means.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lampshade I get the more money you have in retirement the better off you are. But did anyone here retire and NOT be a millionaire?

People here are no different than anywhere else. Being a millionaire doesn't mean anything in terms of retirement.

What matters is how much you need to spend, not what you have. Once you know exactly what you spend (and are projected to spend in the future), you can figure out what kind of nest egg you need to have to ensure a good retirement.

Subtract your assured income (pensions, Social Security, annuity, whatever) from your expected spending. The amount left over is how much you need to withdraw from your nest egg (portfolio, savings, etc.).

Take a percentage of your nest egg and see if that meets the amount you just calculated. If the percentage is 4% or more, then you're in trouble if you live a long life. If the percentage is around 2%, you should be golden. The area between 2% and 4% is where you can start to figure out whether you need to work longer, reduce expenses, or whatever.

Looked at this way, it's not complicated. So for your $900K nest egg, you would want to withdraw less than $36K per year. The less, the better.

Again, it all gets back to spending. Be very sure of what you're spending now, and what you're spending it on. That will give you a great start on figuring out what your future spending is likely to be.

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh Everyone on this board aspires to LBYM. LBYM = Living Below Your Means.

Well maybe not everyone. However, I do aspire to not Living Beyond My Means.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Oh man, how many times have I said that the only material thing I still wish is to have a waterfront property on the Puget Sound, so that I can row a kayak out to check my crab traps every evening to look for dinner? It is not a chore, but a privilege. But buying such a place would deplete my stash, leaving me with much less to count.

We have friends who live oceanfront on Galiano Island and his crabs haul is way down. Two year ago we would have a Dungeness feast on his dock. Now we are lucky if he has a Ling Cod in his freezer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsbcal Congratulations, you win the quote-of-the-day award! You are now entitled to one free at-a-girl (female equivalent of at-a-boy).

Is that anything like an attaboy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjquantz I've spent the past week driving from northern Virginia to Denver and I took the opportunity to do it the way that my working class family would have done it when I was a kid. I've been sleeping in under $50 hotels, eating at fast food, staying with my still working class sister, etc. The only luxury that I allowed myself was playing golf on small town courses ($20 green fees). I've been through small towns in VA, WV, KY, IN, IL, MO, KS, and CO on this trip ranging from disastrously poor to clean and neat. Total daily cost (gas, golf, food and lodging) was just under $100/day...

It is amazing how lifestyle inflation is raising our retirement cost estimates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Sea Kayaker and NW Bound, DH and I bought waterfront property on Whidbey Island in the early 90s for our future retirement home (saved for it and paid cash). We held on to the property and finally built a 1700' 2BR/2B home via UBuildIt program about 7 years ago without a mortgage. We spend our weekends and vacation time on the island and I will be living on the island full time after 8/1 (DH will join 6/16). Our property is on stable midbank bluff, but we have water/boat slip access just down the road. We have a beautiful view of Camano Island and Mt. Baker. I have a nice size garden area for vegetables and flowers and we kept the small old cabin for our tool/garden shed. I do crab using my kayak using a small ring trap. Allows me to putz and enjoy the sea life. Also good clamming and mussels from our tidelands. The house was designed and built with a water view from every room (except 2nd bath and laundry room) for those stormy winter days

Our friends built their own island home above and it is truly a retreat. They have their own dock. They spend winters in Mexico on the ocean as well, and own a panga. Great lifestyle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calico 3. As far as having to be self-sufficient, some of us have to pay a large portion of the cost of medical care in retirement, and don't live in a society where care is provided at little to no cost....

The retirees at my Megacorp in the US have had their retirement benefits reduced so much that many will need to devote half their pensions to replace them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh Regarding item #3, health care in Canada is not provided "at little or no cost". The average family is paying over $11,000 in taxes for it. Health care in Canada is not free, think tank says, claiming average family will pay $11K this year | CTV News

This article has been debunked as propaganda from the right wing Fraser Institute. It substantially overstated the amount of income tax being paid. OTOH the way to have a cheap retirement in Canada is to not drink, smoke or drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermion The second point is the accumulation of items that comes from spending. This ends up requiring more house, more insurance, more taxes, more maintenance. I have this problem personally. We accumulated a vast amount of stuff and I will end up spending money to get rid of it (or at least losing a great deal of money in depreciation and opportunity cost).

Getting rid of stuff can reduce your real estate needs and improve your mental outlook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eta2020 I like to split bottle red wine with DW every evening. I don't know if that makes us alcoholics . ...

We do the same. It is a bottle of Concha y Toro Frontera Cab that costs C$16 for 1.5 liters and lasts us for 3 nights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh Total cost approximately $1.48 Having breakfast at a restaurant makes no sense unless it's a social event or you don't have time to make it!

We have a ROMEO group in PV that hikes 3x a week and then goes to a local restaurant for breakfast. Average cost is 70 to 100 pesos for 2 eggs, 2 strips of bacon, hash browns, refried beans and coffee, with tortillas, including tip. There are also fruit plates, yogurt, buns, omelets, etc. (13 MXN = 1 US)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car-Guy Well maybe not everyone. However, I do aspire to not Living Beyond My Means.

When I first came here, that is what I thought LBYM meant until I looked it up. I am converted now.

[teejayevans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejman I guess I must be the only dummkopf that went straight to a bronze plan without bothering to check whether I qualified for silver subsidies or not.

IF you don't have any medical expenses, I think you are still better off with bronze plan

[ejman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by teejayevans IF you don't have any medical expenses, I think you are still better off with bronze plan

Aye, that be me so far knock on wood. I hadn't seen the doctor for two years and he finally had to drag me in kikin' & screamin' for a checkup by the simple method of refusing to renew my BP prescription unless I went in. Much to my surprise the Bronze plan covered all costs including lab. What is this world coming to?