Is Everyone a Multi-Millionaire?

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by imoldernu Anyway, something to read here... find the chart that fits. The Average Net Worth For The Above Average Person | Financial Samurai

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Originally Posted by Animorph Here's a summary of Fed data on income and net worth (second table down), including by age group: A Look at Household Net Worth and Household Income By Age Group from the 2010 Survey of Consumer Finances I believe this is the source: FRB: 2010 SCF

A quick look at the above sources and a comparison with the poll on this forum shows that respondents to the poll have just a tad above average net worth, assuming an average age of 60. Of course, one expects that people who frequent ER forums tend to be frugal and have had some reasonable savings.

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Originally Posted by REWahoo Senator, the answer is no: Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community - Net Worth Poll Looks like ~50% have less than $2M, the minimum amount necessary to reach "multi" status.

[gauss]

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Originally Posted by razztazz I thought I was the only "kook" like this. I had a Magnavox portable non-cable ready, rotary clicky dial, that was my main "home entertainment" piece from 1984 to 2004

Excellent! Did it have a 'fine-tuning' knob too?

[photoguy]

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Originally Posted by Hopeful This is very true. I feel blessed at the age of 41 to have investable assets of 2.5M. It would be interesting to see stats on net worth based on age.

There's always the bogleheads net worth by age survey:

Bogleheads • View topic - Improved Net Worth by Age [and plot]

At 41 the median with SS/pension is 1.2M. Like this forum, even the median poster would be an outlier compared to the average american.

What's interesting is that the net worth curve appears to flatten after 3-4M. Perhaps people start spending down/gifting the money at this point?

[FIREd]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound A quick look at the above sources and a comparison with the poll on this forum shows that respondents to the poll have just a tad above average net worth, assuming an average age of 60. Of course, one expects that people who frequent ER forums tend to be frugal and have had some reasonable savings.

The net worth poll referenced in REWahoo's post is 3 years old. Given the strong returns in the stock market for the past 3 years, many of us might be much better off now.

[razztazz]

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Originally Posted by gauss Excellent! Did it have a 'fine-tuning' knob too?

Not that I recall. Just the UHF/VHF dials and 2 smaller knobs. Contrast and the one you used to fiddle with the color

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by photoguy There's always the bogleheads net worth by age survey: Bogleheads • View topic - Improved Net Worth by Age [and plot] At 41 the median with SS/pension is 1.2M. Like this forum, even the median poster would be an outlier compared to the average american. What's interesting is that the net worth curve appears to flatten after 3-4M. Perhaps people start spending down/gifting the money at this point?

Looks like they count pension, and SS too, from the chart label. I just recently figured out our future SS, and that would kick me up a notch. But how does one discount something that he will not be able to get for another 2 decades, like your "typical" 41 year old Boglehead?

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Originally Posted by FIREd The net worth poll referenced in REWahoo's post is 3 years old. Given the strong returns in the stock market of the past 3 years, many of us might be much better off now.

Yes, but keep in mind that not all of us are still accumulating and/or in the right sector for the recent years.

[Animorph]

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Originally Posted by FIREd The net worth poll referenced in REWahoo's post is 3 years old. Given the strong returns in the stock market for the past 3 years, many of us might be much better off now.

They publish the survey every 3 years, so a 2013 version should be in the works.

[FIREd]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound Yes, but keep in mind that not all of us are still accumulating and/or in the right sector for the recent years.

Nonetheless, based on the higher frequency of the wheeeee signal, it seems like the median would be noticeably higher now, probably north of $2M for the forum.

[eta2020]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound Looks like they count pension, and SS too, from the chart label. Yes, but keep in mind that not all of us are still accumulating and/or in the right sector for the recent years.

Yea I don't like counting SS and I would count pension ONLY if I am still eligible for full SS. IE: Military Pension.

[Animorph]

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Originally Posted by photoguy There's always the bogleheads net worth by age survey: Bogleheads • View topic - Improved Net Worth by Age [and plot] At 41 the median with SS/pension is 1.2M. Like this forum, even the median poster would be an outlier compared to the average american. What's interesting is that the net worth curve appears to flatten after 3-4M. Perhaps people start spending down/gifting the money at this point?

Maybe they're just retiring and making withdrawals? It could also show the effects of the different investing time frames experienced by people of different ages.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by gauss I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the ER crowd here is not the Honey Boo Boo target audience...

Well, Honey Boo Boo is a bit young for this forum.

But we also need to remind ourselves that there are 14-year old girls among us.

[dmdunca44]

We aren't multi-millionaires. Guess we aren't even millionaires since our combined net worth puts us at a bit over 1M. We were not high earners during our working years. But, thanks to our pensions and 401K savings, we are enjoying a comfortable retirement with enough funds to indulge our travel urges.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[Animorph]

And here's what we all should have:

Here Is The Income Level At Which Money Won't Make You Any Happier In Each State

Looks like $75k (household income) works for most states, but some states need much more and some can do with less. Use your favorite multiplier to figure out a corresponding net worth.

[photoguy]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound But how does one discount something that he will not be able to get for another 2 decades, like your "typical" 41 year old Boglehead?

Good question. I went back and looked at the original thread but all I see is pages and pages of arguments on how to discount it and that "net worth" shouldn't include NPV of SS/pension, etc. No clear summary of what was actually done.

Anyway they have a column for just net worth.

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Originally Posted by Animorph Maybe they're just retiring and making withdrawals? It could also show the effects of the different investing time frames experienced by people of different ages.

Good point. I wouldn't mind living on a 4% w.r. of several M.

[scrabbler1]

I got a microwave oven for my 24th birthday. It has 2 dials - one to set the time and the other to select cook or defrost. That's it, nothing digital. I still have it and it works fine. I am 51 now. Do the math.

[explanade]

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Originally Posted by jim584672 I am puzzling about the 2 mil plus group, why they didn't retire sooner?? I guess they have a high expense life style or something. Since I am in the "frugal" category 2 mill plus seems gigantic.

I've only tracking all my assets for only a couple of years. It's been an abstract number because I have not drawn a single cent out yet.

Instead, I looked it more as a way to a higher retired budget though I haven't been saving as much money (other than maxing out 401k and IRA/Roth IRA).

Of course the other part of it is being emotionally ready to leave a lifelong habit of work, of a regimented lifestyle, having to keep to a schedule that is partly determined by others.

Stockholm syndrome maybe.

Though that mindset is changing.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by Animorph And here's what we all should have: Here Is The Income Level At Which Money Won't Make You Any Happier In Each State Looks like $75k (household income) works for most states, but some states need much more and some can do with less. Use your favorite multiplier to figure out a corresponding net worth.

And I think that level is for the general population who are still raising children, saving money for retirement, paying off mortgage, etc... A retiree should be able to squeeze more discretionary leisure expenses out of that same level, but of course the sky's the limit. Expenses have a way to expand (is that an echo?) to use up available funds.

[ESRwannabe]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound Back when China economy was still in the Dark Ages, childbirth limit might have made sense. Now, they are worrying about having a boatload of retirees without the support of workers. A couple (2 persons) down to one child. That single child has to change his/her parents' diapers while also works in the farm for food, builds gadgets in factories, then drives trucks to make Amazon-like deliveries to the non-producing geezers. I pity that younger generation. Or perhaps not, as they may just revolt and leave the geezers out to rot. The same thing happens if there are too many savers and early retirees like people in this forum. Somebody has to work and to buy "stuff", so that corporations can make money and send out dividends to us. See: Paradox of thrift - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I believe that science is the answer. When there is an abundance of population our species just throws more people at problems instead of using our brains. When the plague wiped out literally 1/3 of the population then the societies had to change. Instead of throwing peasants at the problem of food production we actually started to use our brains and become more productive by making better tools and such. Society became less feudalistic and more democratic, people were valued, and science was the tool we used to solve our problems.

Surely we are a smart enough species that we don't require exponential growth to solve issues of elder care. I think our genetics are still designed for small communities/tribes. If we could get back to that I think everyone would be better off. Our current environment looks a lot like John Calhoun's mouse utopia to me.

I think we have adequate technology that people really don't need to be spending 75% of their time as a worker drone. I bet we could easily function with everyone working just one or two days a week and we could do it without a reduction in the standard of living for 99% of people. The problem is that we have too many people in the world for real cooperation.

[Chuckanut]

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Originally Posted by Mulligan Speaking of crazy but true...I know a retired couple in their late 50s who owe more money on their house now than they did when it was purchased in the 80s and have no savings. But they are comfortably retired. How? Well they have over $100k a year in pensions with COLAs. As long as the checks keep coming, they are just fine. I know several people that have retired or are going to retire that way.

$100,000 a year in pension checks with a COLA is one heck of a phantom asset.

[marko]

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Originally Posted by Chuckanut $100,000 a year in pension checks with a COLA is one heck of a phantom asset.

Around here, a fire/police lieutenant RE'd at 58 or so can get a pension of upwards of $75-$80K, COLA'd. So a cop/fire couple could easily pull in well over $100K; more like $150K.

Plus if he/she comes down with even a minor "disability" (tinnitus, minor skin cancer, blurry vision etc) within 6 yrs after retirement, they are likely to get the city to pay their Fed taxes on that pension as well.

Throw in a 25% discount on your property taxes (because, the thinking goes, you were an underpaid civil servant, now struggling in retirement) and....pretty sweet.