Is frugality without sacrifice doable?

[GTFan]

Not doable. Frugality means spending less money, which means not getting what that money can buy.

No, it doesn't. Your definition doesn't jive with almost every post in this thread.

 

[Meadbh]

Frugality without sacrifice is absolutely possible. It's a matter of managing expectations and making choices.

 

[youbet]

Not doable. Frugality means spending less money, which means not getting what that money can buy. You may not care what some others spend money on (BMW, for example), but I'm sure that money can buy something you like too. Not getting something you like is a sacrifice. Therefore by definition frugality means sacrifice, not that sacrifice is a bad thing to be avoided.

+1

Exactly.

 

[Meadbh]

Not doable. Frugality means spending less money, which means not getting what that money can buy. You may not care what some others spend money on (BMW, for example), but I'm sure that money can buy something you like too. Not getting something you like is a sacrifice. Therefore by definition frugality means sacrifice, not that sacrifice is a bad thing to be avoided.

It does not follow that frugality means sacrifice. Frugality is a quantifiable concept. Either one lives below one's means, or one does not. Sacrifice is a subjective feeling of deprivation. A purchase forgone may feel like a sacrifice to one individual but may be no sacrifice at all to another.

For example, if I could not afford to travel, to me, that would be a sacrifice. To someone like W2R, it would probably be no sacrifice at all. OTOH, many forum members own quite a lot of expensive camera equipment. I'm sure that many of them would consider it a sacrifice not to be able to afford it. Not having such equipment is no sacrifice to me. I choose to spend that money in other ways, or to save it.

 

[youbet]

It does not follow that frugality means sacrifice. Frugality is a quantifiable concept. Either one lives below one's means, or one does not.

You can be frugal while living above or below your means.

Sacrifice is a subjective feeling of deprivation.

No. You can "sacrifice" one fun activity for another. "I sacrificed going to the ballgame on Saturday to avoid a conflict with attending the play." Both activities were desirable. You had to sacrifice one in order to do the other.

A purchase forgone may feel like a sacrifice to one individual but may be no sacrifice at all to another.

Yes for sure. Particularly on this board, the joy of not spending is so great for many that it is hard to imagine how they could ever do anything in life without feelings of remorse from having let go of a nickle........

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I buy as many books as I can find on how to live well without spending a lot of money. I am not sure you have to sacrifice to be frugal. If you get free comp tickets to see a play because the play has not sold out and the director wants to to fill seats, that is not a sacrifice, that is just taking some time to know where to look to see what web site the play management posts the comp tickets at. The time to research where the tickets get posted and scoring the bargains is half the fun.

Or using Staples coupons to get a years supply of free dish detergent. That doesn't necessarily require sacrifice. It just means going to forums where the Staples experts hang out and reading their tips on how to do that.

Getting free miles or cash back on credit cards does not take much time and can generate thousands a year in free travel or cash back. On Black Friday I did some sign up bonuses for saving and checking accounts for the family and made $950 for an hour or two of work.

I found a public library in another state I could join for a nominal fee that has a free online movies, how to videos, ebooks, free music and videos you can keep, audio books and a couple of popular online tech training course subscriptions that would cost $50 a month to subscribe to individually.

Our water department gives out water saving kits for free with items like low flow shower heads, garden nozzles and faucet aerators. It isn't a sacrifice to stop by when we are doing errands that way anyway and pick up the kit.

It does cost time to do some research, but many people have hobbies that cost money, like golf or photography, so if bargain hunting is fun for you like it is for me it is not a sacrifice at all, it is a fun hobby.

 

[makincaid]

In many cases I find the cheaper option is actually superior to the expensive one.

- Playing baseball with friends is a lot more fun than watching a professional team.
- Backpacking vacations are much more intense and rewarding than going on a cruise.
- Food prepared at home is much healthier than restaurant food.

In cases like these I would say that spending is actually the sacrifice.

 

[haha]

No, it doesn't. Your definition doesn't jive with almost every post in this thread.

For the right sort of person, there is no such thing as sacrifice. We actually enjoy sacrifice. After all, our great leader got nailed to a cross though he was all powerful.

Which I assume implies that he could have nailed those Romans to the cross instead. Or just drowned them, or given them all really bad diarrhea.

 

[kaudrey]

As with most things, the answer for me is 'balance' and 'flexibility.' We spend a lot on travel because we enjoy it immensely. If necessary, we could reduce it to zero. We [-]spend a lot on our house[/-] {change to: have a cabin in the mountains} because we enjoy [-]living[/-] going there. If necessary, we could [-]downsize and cut that in half or more[/-] sell it. We spend a lot eating out at nice restaurants with good friends because life is too short to eat beans by yourself at home. If necessary, we could go to zero on that as well.

So again, we spend freely on discretionary items that bring us enjoyment and enrich our lives, knowing that we can cut them out when and if needed. But the basic day-to-day, fixed living expenses, and other items (like cars) that we don't place as much value on, are carefully managed to optimize cost/benefit without sacrificing anything.

+1 with my edits. I think we are frugal because we save 30% of our income; but we make pretty good money and spend quite a lot. But I drive a Saturn; I bring my lunch to work most days, we are not "shoppers". We live in the townhouse I bought 15 years ago and will stay there until we retire in 12 years.

If you think that makes me frugal, then yes, I don't feel like we are sacrificing to be frugal.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Of course some people can be frugal without sacrifice, like some people can run without hating every minute of it.

 

[jetpack]

I've been studying and trying to practice the "minimalist" movement over the last year.
Much of the concept is to reduce the "things" that you have to the bare minimum. I've
had tons of stuff that I don't need. I'm ready now to sell a rental property I don't need.
This simplifies my life, my stuff and my "overhead".

The thing is, this opens you up to new experiences. You can spend money on
experiences, travel, good food and entertainment.... without it costing you more and
without you incurring more residual expenses.

I still have a ways to go, but I think my life will be much freer, more enjoyable, and
despite not having a lot of things, more fulfilled.

 

[ProspectiveBum]

Of course some people can be frugal without sacrifice, like some people can run without hating every minute of it.

I am neither of those people.

 

[jerome len]

Regardless of your income I believe everyone should attempt to be frugal, not cheap. Frugal means using coupons, price checking on your smart phone, making sure you feel value in every dollar you spend. Cheap, on the other hand, means going to the rest room just before the dinner check arrives at the table, or forgetting to chip in with your siblings for your parents birthday/Christmas presents. DW and I are frugal, not cheap......we both have a sibling who is cheap and.......proud of it!

 

[Rustic23]

Not doable. Frugality means spending less money, which means not getting what that money can buy.

I would disagree. I have a friend who is as frugal as they come. He knows the cost of just about everything a grocery store sell. When a store puts something on sale he stocks up. His very large pantry looks like a grocery store. He gets what he wants, maybe must more or not when he wants it. I guess to make your definition work you could say he is sacrificing shopping for whatever he wants when ever he wants to. Personally that is getting to the point 'that it depends on what the definition of is is'

 

[thefinancebuff]

I would disagree. I have a friend who is as frugal as they come. He knows the cost of just about everything a grocery store sell. When a store puts something on sale he stocks up. His very large pantry looks like a grocery store. He gets what he wants, maybe must more or not when he wants it. I guess to make your definition work you could say he is sacrificing shopping for whatever he wants when ever he wants to. Personally that is getting to the point 'that it depends on what the definition of is is'

If he's banking the savings from groceries, he's not spending the money on things or experiences he likes, say a vacation to a more expensive destination (Antarctica, anyone?). He's sacrificing those things or experiences in order to save money.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If he's banking the savings from groceries, he's not spending the money on things or experiences he likes, say a vacation to a more expensive destination (Antarctica, anyone?). He's sacrificing those things or experiences in order to save money.

Some people prefer financial security to spending money on either consumer goods or experiences. Maybe the guy saving money on sale items would rather invest the money or donate it to charity and go backpacking instead of Antarctica.

I don't think fun experiences have to cost a lot of money. Someone living in an off grid house with an organic garden, well water and solar power who goes kayaking and hiking for fun and has a lot of time to read, visit with neighbors and do volunteer work and at night looks at the stars with a home made telescope may be quite happy.

I have posted this before, but for those that missed it, the people in the clip below live a Thoreau kind of life in a 12 X 12 cabin without electricity -

 

[Lsbcal]

Being frugal does require some sacrifice. I do believe in your key question "is it worth it to me?" For example, I really want to go to a 49er game in their new stadium, but I'm not going to pay $350+ per ticket to go. Thus, being frugal requires some sacrifice.

$350 to see a football game is off the charts and you have not added in gas, parking, food.

I thought springing for $65 senior tickets at a Padres game was big time. Did it because I wanted to be right down near the field on the first base side with DW and DS for a special treat.

Then I saw the cost of Giants tickets in SF, something like $165 if you could get them. Yikes, I'll watch them on TV.

On the larger question, frugality depends on your stash. If you are getting ancient like me and have a reasonably high net worth, being too frugal is foolish. There, I said it.

 

[GTFan]

If he's banking the savings from groceries, he's not spending the money on things or experiences he likes, say a vacation to a more expensive destination (Antarctica, anyone?). He's sacrificing those things or experiences in order to save money.

And that's where you're off the rails - who said anything about banking the savings? Frugality in many areas enables spending in others, so there is no sacrifice for that person.

 

[queeneev]

Sacrifice is unique to each individual.

I sacrificed a long work week filled with stress and madness and many late nights. I sacrificed a lack of personal life and balance. I sacrificed heart palpitations and upset stomachs.

In return I got more time with my family, daily interactions with my wildflowers and vegetable garden. I got insight to what is important to me, which was rather different from what I *thought* was important to me.

Dive in and embrace the frugality, and it will embrace you.

PS - don't let naysayers (they are everywhere) chip away at your principles.

 

[NW-Bound]

As many posters before me have pointed out, if you do not miss what you do not have, it's not a sacrifice. We have always had good cars, and would get rid of them if they become unreliable, else that would be a sacrifice. But I do not have a luxury German car, do not care to have one even though I can afford it, and do not consider it a sacrifice.

I spend a lot of money on other things that I enjoy, but that is because I can afford them. If I have less, I am sure I can cut back significantly and would not feel hardship at all.

Again, posters have repeatedly pointed out that one should learn to be happy with what he has. Of course, it is hard to put in practice if all one's belongings are inside a shopping cart parked under a bridge, but we are not talking about such extreme, are we?

Regardless of your income I believe everyone should attempt to be frugal, not cheap. Frugal means using coupons, price checking on your smart phone, making sure you feel value in every dollar you spend. Cheap, on the other hand, means going to the rest room just before the dinner check arrives at the table, or forgetting to chip in with your siblings for your parents birthday/Christmas presents. DW and I are frugal, not cheap......we both have a sibling who is cheap and.......proud of it!

+1

Years ago, I read the same from Andrew Tobias. He pointed out that frugal is how you treat yourself, and cheap applies only to how you treat others.

You can splurge on yourself with fancy cars and clothes, but if you treat others miserly or only take but not return, you are still cheap.

 

[Lsbcal]

As many posters before me have pointed out, if you do not miss what you do not have, it's not a sacrifice. We have always had good cars, and would get rid of them if they become unreliable, else that would be a sacrifice. But I do not have a luxury German car, do not care to have one even though I can afford it, and do not consider it a sacrifice....

DW still loves the 2002 Toyota Camry with heated seats. I think back then Camry's and Lexus's were pretty similar designs. It really seems to have withstood the tests of time and with our low driving mileage and mild weather it will not die.

 

[Lsbcal]

...snip...
Years ago, I read the same from Andrew Tobias. He pointed out that frugal is how you treat yourself, and cheap applies only to how you treat others.
...

Nice way to distinguish frugal from cheap. I'm trying to be more generous nowadays but don't want to force others into feeling a need to reciprocate if they have different economic standards.

One couple we go out with always do separate checks. Another couple insist on paying if we are in their town. I think the next one is on us, but one can loose track.

 

[NW-Bound]

Nice way to distinguish frugal from cheap. I'm trying to be more generous nowadays but don't want to force others into feeling a need to reciprocate if they have different economic standards...

I would not mind if some people cannot reciprocate exactly, because of their situation. People can usually tell if someone is a freeloader.

One of my neighbors really like our cooking, and we do invite them over for dinner quite often. They pay back by other means, such as helping us when seeing us out for yard work, etc... We really enjoy the mutual friendship.

And after all, people who are beneficiary of our charity donations can never pay us back directly.

 

[Koolau]

In my view, practicing frugality without sacrifice is based on one key concept and one key question. The key concept is: to do instead, not do without. And the key question is: is it worth it to me... not can I afford it.

I like your concept/question.

Here is what I always told our kids about frugality: "You can have anything you want. You just can't have everything you want."