It now costs $350,000 a year to live a middle-class lifestyle in a big city

[W2R]

My wife worked and earned less than I did.

If I were single, would I have more money? Hard to say. Would I be even more frugal by myself, or blow all the dough because I had no dependents who relied on me?

It's hypothetical, and I never ponder this question till reading the above posts.

I have had lots more money as a single than I did while married. But see, it's all in how you define it. When I was married, we spent a lot more money but a lot of that was on things I really didn't want (like his hobbies, his repair projects, his fancy-schmancy conversion van, his boat, his flying lessons, and so on). Now, if I don't want it, I don't have to pay for it.

I think it's not so much in having more MONEY as a single. It's in having more CONTROL of how the money is spent. We dare not talk about control much in forums like this, but it is central to this issue IMO.

Some people say that relationship issues are all about control, and that money is central to most arguments in marriage. I agree.

F and I give each other complete control over our own money and we just enjoy our conversations and loving companionship, without having to steer each other's financial ship (so to speak). Takes all the pressure off.

 

[NW-Bound]

My wife is quite frugal, more than myself.

I suspect that if I were single, my stash would be smaller than it is now.

In any case, I am doing quite OK despite having two children. It all works out OK. Nothing to regret. I would not change a thing.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

That's actually pretty close to our entertainment budget. It's very easy to go through that much per month. I include dining out as entertainment because that's what is to us. I also include hosting a party and weekend getaways in this category.

We spend close to $500 per month on entertainment as well and also include dining out. But since we're retired we go out often so our per event price is still usually pretty frugal. $100 - $200 of that includes going out with friends who spend more than we usually do for a night out or a $100 event with one of our senior clubs. This week DH went out to lunch with friends - $20, we saw a play at preview prices and bought wine $29, and are seeing a tribute band with Goldstar half price tickets for $35. We had to cut it for time, but I also had seat filler tickets for another tribute band concert. The tickets were free with my annual membership but after paying for train fares and drinks still would have been $30, adding up to $112 for the week.

 

[Vacation4us]

If I read your comment correctly, you support 3 homes on a little less than $350k. If you upgraded your $1775 a month to $3k and didn't support 2 other places you'd be very well off on your income.

Say $300k income less $90k taxes, $50k retirement, $36k rent leaves you $124k a year or over $10k a month AFTER taxes, housing, and retirement savings.

Unfortunately yes. We support 3 homes. We rent in the Bay Area ( not fans and not worth selling the 2 down south to buy 1 dog in hell). My DH was transferred when promoted and I followed 2 yrs later.

Our plan is to return home once retired in 15 months. I still support my DD who lives in my house. DH has his own home, we are both previously divorced.

We don’t struggle to meet our obligations but we are by no means rich. We wouldn’t have an income near 300k if we both didn’t work in the Bay Area. I am a nurse and I am still shocked how much I make in this area. I worked for the highest paid hospital in SoCal and I still got a $25 dollar per hour raise by working here at one of the lowest paying hospitals.

This area is expensive and our apartment is old, small, and not in a middle class neighborhood. Think laundromat, which we do use. A means to an end. An average home here is easily 1.3 million and that’s out in Suburbs with a hellish commute cause traffic up here is insane.

Not us but 6k in housing 2 cars and 2 young kids and 10k after taxes is not rich. A family of 4 could not find a place to rent for 36k a year.

For us what we spend on 3 homes is a short term problem. In 15 months we will have no rent, 1 paid for home, and 1 house payment and a fraction of our income. Retirement bliss. We might feel rich then!

 

[GravitySucks]

If I didn't marry well I'd have had an extremely LCOL. Free food and they don't charge rent in jail.

My wife worked and earned less than I did.

If I were single, would I have more money? Hard to say. Would I be even more frugal by myself, or blow all the dough because I had no dependents who relied on me?

It's hypothetical, and I never ponder this question till reading the above posts about marriage and wealth accumulation.

 

[bolt]

If I didn't marry well I'd have had an extremely LCOL. Free food and they don't charge rent in jail.

A friend got married and became a millionaire after the divorce.
They used to be a multi-millionaire.

Writers must write,
When will they see the light?

 

[Dtail]

We spend close to $500 per month on entertainment as well and also include dining out. But since we're retired we go out often so our per event price is still usually pretty frugal. $100 - $200 of that includes going out with friends who spend more than we usually do for a night out or a $100 event with one of our senior clubs. This week DH went out to lunch with friends - $20, we saw a play at preview prices and bought wine $29, and are seeing a tribute band with Goldstar half price tickets for $35. We had to cut it for time, but I also had seat filler tickets for another tribute band concert. The tickets were free with my annual membership but after paying for train fares and drinks still would have been $30, adding up to $112 for the week.

We are at 400 monthly for entertainment, which includes entertaining friends.
It does not include dining out. It also includes entertaining the grandchildren.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

A Bay Area Rapid Transit janitor who makes $234,000 plus $36,000 in benefits







I have to tip my hat to that janitor. According to the article, his base salary for a 40 hour week is about $56K. Dude picked up O.T. hours on an almost daily basis that other janitors turned down. He probably worked most holidays, as well.



Good on him!

Where I worked there usually were overtime opportunities each day including mandatory overtime for some employees. It was cheaper for management to pay overtime rather than hire enough employees for the workload & pay benefits. I found that those employees that worked more than a couple of hours of overtime were not as good employees due to chronic exhaustion. Some employees worked overtime 40 hours a week. The janitor featured in the article appeared to be someone who essentially worked another full time job in OT. What we don’t know is his motivation for example was he supporting an extended family? What I can tell you from my experience is that relationships suffer. If you need to work those numbers of overtime to survive you really need a better job paying a higher wage. This janitor worked for years with overtime. It literally wears him out.

 

[LarryMelman]

the author of the article specializes in clickbait journalism. I gave up on him a long time ago.

Yup. I'm learning quickly who the cheerleaders of the "FIRE movement" are. Most aren't retired at all, they merely shifted careers into writing how-to books and giving lectures and writing clickbait. And shout "retirement police!" at anyone who dares point that out.

 

[Taxman59]

I just saw a linked article on a couple in NYC that earns $500K/yr and "still end up with very little besides 401K money".

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/bud...e-that-makes-500000-a-year-but-cant-save.html

Where to even start..what's this guy trying to accomplish? His credibility is seriously diminished with articles like these.

Looked at the tax calculation. In N?YC, with the $500k income, $38k 401K, mortgage taxes, charity, total tax should be about $154k, not $185k. There's another $31k for after tax savings! These articles are simplistic and stilted to make a political point. Total waste of time to read.

 

[ncbill]

My wife is quite frugal, more than myself.

I suspect that if I were single, my stash would be smaller than it is now.

In any case, I am doing quite OK despite having two children. It all works out OK. Nothing to regret. I would not change a thing.

Ditto about DW & kids.

I would change a few major, foolish, expensive decisions I made...but those are all on me.

 

[MarieIG]

Looked at the tax calculation. In N?YC, with the $500k income, $38k 401K, mortgage taxes, charity, total tax should be about $154k, not $185k. There's another $31k for after tax savings! These articles are simplistic and stilted to make a political point. Total waste of time to read.

Based on what year?

The article was from early 2018. Could have been based upon a 500k income in 2017. I can't tell from the article. I also don't know what was included, Federal Income tax, NYS income tax and NYC income tax seem to be a given. What about SS? Medicare? Additional Medicare? and that ever loving Alternative Minimum Tax which would serve to reduce the deductions. The ATM shouldn't hit them this year, and that makes a difference. But - I'm not a tax man.

I also can't tell how you calculate taxes - and from which year.

As to the couple, it seemed to me they lived beyond their means. With that student debt, they really bought too much house (money wise) and spent too much on cars. (Oh, and if they were living in Manhattan, there is parking for those cars. Utilities and cell phones can be high.) Three vacations a year? Not necessary. I have heard a lot of complaints about the cost of childcare; but those school expenses are over the top. They should have clipped their expenses saved much more for retirement.

 

[chrave1956]

Sidewalk dwellers millionaires ?

So those using the SF sidewalks area toilets...they make $350,000 a year ?

 

[JJpop]

I read the entire article and don’t find it unreasonable. We currently live in the Bay Area rent 500sqft for $1775 but support 2 other homes in SoCal. So our housing costs are easily 6k a month. Combined we make less than 350k but not too far off.

Take out 90k in taxes and 50 k in retirement funds and a comfortable middle class lifestyle is all you get. Comfortable not rich no Tesla’s or Ferrari’s.

The author clearly stated HCOL areas.

So you have 3 houses and contribute 50K to retirement.This is a middle class lifestyle