It's (mentally) hard to sell my investments

[tominboise]

We are 61/59 years old and retired in Oct 2020. We have a good budget and are hitting it and are at 100% on all the calculators that I have run, etc.

We are using our after tax brokerage account as our financial engine until we start drawing SS (at age 70) and taking RMD's (at 72). So drawing $$ from our brokerage account requires selling off investments in that account (currently 75/25 AA in that account). We are getting an ACA subsidy, so that requires managing which assets get sold for capital gains management.

ANYWAY, my personal issue is that I've spent the last 30 years or so putting money into those accounts and managing them to grow. Taking money out seems backwards and wrong. I know I put it in there so I could take it out later.

Just trying to rationalize to the inner saver in me.....

 

[pacergal]

Someone here once wrote this (sorry, unable to remember who):

"You are no longer in a savings mode
You are now in a slow spend down mode"

I have that written and placed by my desk as a reminder. It helps quite a bit.
After all, what did you save it for but to live in your retirement ?

 

[VanWinkle]

We are 61/59 years old and retired in Oct 2020. We have a good budget and are hitting it and are at 100% on all the calculators that I have run, etc.

We are using our after tax brokerage account as our financial engine until we start drawing SS (at age 70) and taking RMD's (at 72). So drawing $$ from our brokerage account requires selling off investments in that account (currently 75/25 AA in that account). We are getting an ACA subsidy, so that requires managing which assets get sold for capital gains management.

ANYWAY, my personal issue is that I've spent the last 30 years or so putting money into those accounts and managing them to grow. Taking money out seems backwards and wrong. I know I put it in there so I could take it out later.

Just trying to rationalize to the inner saver in me.....

I can relate to this problem.... I've been retired for almost 6 years and still find it hard to sell in my taxable account. The only real "spending" I have done is to pay for Roth Conversions from my Taxable account. I will follow this thread to learn how those that are spending from their taxable investments are able to pull the trigger and spend.

 

[REWahoo]

Do some searching on this forum and you'll find numerous threads/posts on this subject. Bottom line: it's a common problem that time will remedy.

Also, please note this is definitely a first world problem.

 

[COcheesehead]

The Retirement Answer Man has a few good podcasts on this subject. It’s real for a lot of folks. It is very hard and actually more complex to spend down than it is to save.

 

[JoeWras]

This may sound weird, but part of the way I fixed this was to use part of my dividends and gain income in my taxable account as an opportunity to buy more equity funds.

It felt like I was saving, even though I was drawing down in other accounts or maybe even with a sale in that account at a different time.

 

[Major Tom]

It hasn't been hard for me, because I focus on the value of my portfolio, as opposed to how many shares I own. My portfolio is worth far more than it was when I began withdrawals around 10 or 11 years ago. Taking a small chunk of it doesn't diminish the value by much. Another thing that helps psychologically, is that the entire portfolio value (including cash holdings) is listed on my broker home page (Vanguard allows me to enter holdings in outside accounts). That way, when I sell shares in one of my funds to generate living expenses, the portfolio value I see on my Vanguard home page is still the same, just with a little more in cash, and a little less in a stock fund. During this bull market we've been having, that value doesn't even go down from month to month on average, so I quickly forget that I sold part of one of my funds.

Besides, the thought of having to go back to work is far more painful!

 

[Car-Guy]

Taking money from my accounts once I retired was always my plan so is wasn't that hard for me to do.. It did seem a little odd at first but soon it became the new "norm".. So ~ten years later, and now that I'm finding my NW is higher than I had projected at this point, I just don't think much about it anymore.

 

[ejman]

Most of the reason I decided not to convert my tax deferred to Roth is that I realized with my reluctance to sell, anything I converted to Roth would never, ever be spent by me. On the other hand RMD's from my tax deferred deposit directly to my checking account so I have no problem spending that, or with dividends and Cap Gains from my taxable account. I fully realize its not the most efficient use of my funds in retirement but it works for my warped psyche.

 

[pb4uski]

We are 61/59 years old and retired in Oct 2020. We have a good budget and are hitting it and are at 100% on all the calculators that I have run, etc.

We are using our after tax brokerage account as our financial engine until we start drawing SS (at age 70) and taking RMD's (at 72). So drawing $$ from our brokerage account requires selling off investments in that account (currently 75/25 AA in that account). We are getting an ACA subsidy, so that requires managing which assets get sold for capital gains management.

ANYWAY, my personal issue is that I've spent the last 30 years or so putting money into those accounts and managing them to grow. Taking money out seems backwards and wrong. I know I put it in there so I could take it out later.

Just trying to rationalize to the inner saver in me.....

You'll get over it... it takes a couple years.

Try not to focus on specific accounts... the natural consenquence of your strategy may be that your taxable account balances decline as you use that for spending and your tax-deferred and tax-free accounts grow. What has the total done since you retired? I'm guessing that the total has grown... if so, rest easy.

 

[Chuckanut]

This is my favorite FIRE cartoon. Period. I suggest you cut it out and place it where you will see it several times a day. It is a reminder that there are several things that are far more important than having a big pile of money - health and time. We are spending time every second of every day whether we decide to or not.

 

[racy]

Do you pour yourself a bourbon then let it sit in the glass? I don't; I sip it and enjoy.

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

I'll make my first liquidation next Nov/Dec, I suspect my declining MMSA balance will make it pretty easy to hit "sell" but it will feel weird. Man's got to eat!

 

[RunningBum]

I'm finally eating the birthday cake I spent so long baking. It's every bit as delicious as I thought it would be!

I haven't touched my Roth yet (all from tIRA conversions), but I know I will. If/when I decide to move and buy another house, I can use the Roth if I haven't sold my existing house yet and need cash without a large income spike, unless there's a better option like a margin loan on my investment account. Or I can buy a new car or anything else without a tax hit. It's a wonderful flexible resource for me, that I fully intend to use.

I understand the OP and other people have trouble mentally making the switch. I'm just trying to give some perspective on how I did it, in case it helps.

Another method might be to make planned monthly sells from your investment account and have it auto-deposited in your bank account, like a paycheck from your working days.

 

[tominboise]

You'll get over it... it takes a couple years.

Try not to focus on specific accounts... the natural consenquence of your strategy may be that your taxable account balances decline as you use that for spending and your tax-deferred and tax-free accounts grow. What has the total done since you retired? I'm guessing that the total has grown... if so, rest easy.

Yes, the total has grown a fair amount. Who knows if it will stay that way given the short term market but I have no doubt that our overall portfolio will continue to grow over the next 30 years or so.

 

[tominboise]

Do you pour yourself a bourbon then let it sit in the glass? I don't; I sip it and enjoy.

Great perspective. I do enjoy a good Scotch.

 

[tominboise]

This is my favorite FIRE cartoon. Period. I suggest you cut it out and place it where you will see it several times a day. It is a reminder that there are several things that are far more important than having a big pile of money - health and time. We are spending time every second of every day whether we decide to or not.

Great cartoon and absolutely true.

 

[street]

^ oh man I get what you are feeling. One thing I plan for was to have cash for living life and not to have to sell investments. I have enough in MM & CD etc. so I don't have to sell and have those feeling you are talking about.

A tough thing to do but I guess that is why we saved.

 

[marko]

What I find helpful/consoling is to only spend my dividends.

Admittedly, it is a bit of mental gymnastics but you can rationalize it that you're not 'selling your investments', you're just taking the 'profits' they generate. Same amount of shares being held, year in, year out.

You might try that for a few years until you get more comfortable.

 

[Car-Guy]

What I find helpful/consoling is to only spend my dividends.

Admittedly, it is a bit of mental gymnastics but you can rationalize it that you're not 'selling your investments', you're just taking the 'profits' they generate. Same amount of shares being held, year in, year out.

You might try that for a few years until you get more comfortable.

At my age, I no longer think of "trying" anything new for a few years to get comfortable with it. Weeks or months, maybe.

 

[Midpack]

I think that's very common. Our nest egg has doubled since we retired (thanks largely to robust markets), even though we're only half in equities, because I am HIGHLY averse to selling off any holdings. Until I started Roth conversions in 2019, I admit I let tax avoidance play too much of a role in my financial actions before and after retiring. We spend far less than any calculator shows we're able as well. It is very hard to save and LBYM for 30-40 years and then change stripes...

 

[JDARNELL]

I am in the same boat. Its hard to change the horse that got you here and it feels strange not saving and investing.

Last year I did switch all the dividends and capital gains to go into cash and not reinvest. Of course I took that money to help purchase another income producing asset. I hope to get the last kid launched from college in the next 18 months and on his path. The first one is at an inflection point of making his way solo and is dealing with life's challenges in a pretty solid way. We want to start gifting each year but are a little hesitant until we see how the boys are settling into adult life.

This year we are recapitalizing two vehicles so that will take a chunk but I am trying to not create a huge capital gain to stay under some income limits that the tax code tries to social engineer. It's is a sick game that we play sometimes.

We also have thought about setting up a 72T withdraw in 2022 as we have a 7 figure traditional IRA to deal with over the next 17 years that will continue to grow. I have come to the conclusion that no matter what we do its still gonna hit us. So as much as I can get out before RMDs will work then we will give QCDs each year afterwards. By that time if the offspring isn't set up well they will be on their own.

 

[pb4uski]

Do you pour yourself a bourbon then let it sit in the glass? I don't; I sip it and enjoy.

Or as I sometimes provocatively say, did you save that money for your retirement or to hoard it?

 

[pb4uski]

Yes, the total has grown a fair amount. Who knows if it will stay that way given the short term market but I have no doubt that our overall portfolio will continue to grow over the next 30 years or so.

So why worry?

 

[RobbieB]

I found it easy. Easy because I had to. No pension, a small SS survivor bene and I've been selling equities (taxable and IRA) for 7 years now.

I had to so I could to do the things I wanted to do. Easy -