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03-17-2008, 08:18 AM
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#41
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 655
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
What, you think they paid cash? 
That $1B building probably has $995M of debt on it. Hell, it's probably owned by a REIT in a sale leaseback. |
You're probably right on that one.
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03-17-2008, 08:28 AM
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#42
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus
Posts: 769
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Maybe Countrywide cut their good buddies at BSC a special deal on a subprime. 
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03-17-2008, 08:31 AM
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#43
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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Jamie Dimon is no dummy. Bottom line, he got the Fed to back him so has NO RISK to take over Bear's liabilites. Plus, he knows Bear can't raise any money in the markets or borrow any more money, so he gives them an artificially bid as a way out.
Another bank may come in to outbid JPM, but Jamie is testing the waters on that, and I am sure he is prepared to move the bid to $8-$10 a share if necessary, because all he really WANTS is the clients of Bear, and that to him is worth the money........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
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03-17-2008, 08:34 AM
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#44
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
Everything I am reading is predicting a very difficult week ahead (and beyond). Even sources that I would expect to be fairly conservative are saying alarming things, and sounding like Cramer.  They say that other banks are sure to follow, and the interest rate may be cut 1-2% by Tuesday but that may not be enough to help, and that the dollar is tanking.
So, I am holding on to my hat and because this part of the roller coaster ride might be long and bumpy (apparently).  |
Sheesh. The market has been open for over an hour, and the Dow is only down 19 points!!
I'm beginning to wonder why it isn't down more. Maybe this won't be so bad as columnists and other media reporters expected.
Edited to add... OK, OK, 51 points a minute or two later. Maybe it's a little volatile, but still, I expected it to be down 200-300 points at open.
Just keep on buying, everyone...
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-17-2008, 08:35 AM
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#45
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retire Soon
The Bear Stearns new headquarters is worth over $1 billion. JP Morgan purchased Bear for $236 Million, so they probably acquired the building at a discount of approximately $764 million.
Free Preview - WSJ.com |
They just said on CNBC that the breakup value of BSC is $7.7B. Since JPM would buy it for $240M, that would be a 32:1 ratio. Sounds like a pretty good investment.
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.
"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
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03-17-2008, 08:44 AM
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#46
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,968
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Yep my JP bounced up 2.89/shr. Hope they don't get carried away - I may want to buy some more in coming months - with mad money of course.
heh heh heh - 
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03-17-2008, 08:58 AM
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#47
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick
Yep my JP bounced up 2.89/shr. Hope they don't get carried away - I may want to buy some more in coming months - with mad money of course.
heh heh heh - |
 So true! A reasonable low is nice for buying, as long as we don't go over a cliff or something and end up taking decades to recover.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-17-2008, 09:03 AM
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#48
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick
Yep my JP bounced up 2.89/shr. Hope they don't get carried away - I may want to buy some more in coming months - with mad money of course.
heh heh heh - |
looking at it as well, but need to read up first about the risk they are taking on. otherwise it looks like they paid peanuts for some nice businesses
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03-17-2008, 09:04 AM
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#49
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockOn
You think that loss makes this a bottom? God, that seems hopeful to me. How can all these companies lose this much money?
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But it's a paper loss... 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockOn
\
Is that a bottom call? |
I'm more interested in a booty call...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
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03-17-2008, 09:17 AM
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#50
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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That's the problem with leverage and buying on margin. "Paper losses" are just that for people (and businesses) who can wait it out, are not leveraged and have a long timeframe. For those who are heavily leveraged, "paper losses" can lead to a death spiral of margin calls, forced sales and further declines in their asset values.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-17-2008, 09:35 AM
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#51
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
Sheesh. The market has been open for over an hour, and the Dow is only down 19 points!!
I'm beginning to wonder why it isn't down more. Maybe this won't be so bad as columnists and other media reporters expected.
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It's not the last hour of the trading day yet. Check back after 3 PM EDT. That's when most of the recent carnage has occurred and when most rallies have faded.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-17-2008, 09:40 AM
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#52
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
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and JP Morgan which is part of the Dow is up 10%
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03-17-2008, 10:03 AM
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#53
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
It's not the last hour of the trading day yet. Check back after 3 PM EDT. That's when most of the recent carnage has occurred and when most rallies have faded.
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You're right. I will hold onto my hat and keep checking.  Down 131 by now (noon Eastern time). So far not bad but as you say, who knows until the last hour of the day.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-17-2008, 12:58 PM
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#54
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
They just said on CNBC that the breakup value of BSC is $7.7B. Since JPM would buy it for $240M, that would be a 32:1 ratio. Sounds like a pretty good investment.
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The talking heads said something like $6 billion of liabilities such as shareholder lawsuits and such...
So the discount is not as much as it looks...
BUT, it might have been cheaper to let it go into bankruptcy and then buy up the pieces that you want... without any liability coming with them.... the market would have tanked, but who cares.....
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03-17-2008, 12:59 PM
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#55
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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OK, it's 3 PM Eastern time and the Dow is up 31 points or so.
Let the carnage begin?
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-17-2008, 01:03 PM
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#56
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
The talking heads said something like $6 billion of liabilities such as shareholder lawsuits and such...
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The first class-action lawsuit has just been filed by the shareholders.
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.
"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
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03-17-2008, 01:50 PM
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#57
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
OK, it's 3 PM Eastern time and the Dow is up 31 points or so.
Let the carnage begin?
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closed out my shorts just now as well
one thing i noticed in the last year or so is that days where the futures are down some insane amount the market usually closes up or at the upper range of the day's range
and charts look like we are making a bottom, at least for now
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03-17-2008, 02:26 PM
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#58
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 4,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
Everything I am reading is predicting a very difficult week ahead (and beyond).
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I use to think the press had an agenda, however, in this case I think it is more 'If it bleeds it leads'.
Or are they so stupid to be pursuing a political agenda. i.e. bad for the economy, good for Democrats. I would hope not, but in the past bull market they never publicized the good. When the unemployment rate was under 4.6%, you never heard about it. If you did it always had a negative attached, like 'quality of jobs are not their'.
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03-17-2008, 03:10 PM
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#59
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 377
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170 a share a year ago, and sold at 2 bucks a share....
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No Soup for you! Come back 1 year!
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03-17-2008, 03:28 PM
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#60
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
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mordant:
 
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