Just got my apt lease renewal - venting

[haha]

How often do you take advantage of the Opera House and other cultural attractions? ....

Even when I lived up North I went to the opera 3 or 4 times a season, and that was my least used amenity. Now, being here, I go to something almost every day. Good access by transit is mostly an illusion, since it is expensive and a hassle. The only exeption I believe is frequent all night rapid transit, like in NYC and Boston.

I always laugh at "2 hours from the mountains, two hours from the beach, 3 hours from NYC". IMO, one needs to pick one of those and be 10 minutes, on foot, from whatever s/he picks.

Best all around cities are LA and NYC. Live at the beach in LA, you can easily drive to music, LA Art Museum, The Getty and walk daily to the beach. If you really hanker for mountains or ski-ing, if you can avoid traffic those are only an hour away. Super mountains 3 or 4 hours on the east side of the Sierras.

In NYC, live on a subway line so you can get to the beach without your car, get into downtown without your car, get to the doctor without your car. If necessary use your car to go grocery shopping.

Ha

 

[twaddle]

Have you ever lived in a University town, Ha? IMO, a University gives you a cheap diverse offering of cultural events, a world-class library, and continuing education opportunities. And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.

 

[Leonidas]

And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.

I was going to make this super cerebral point, but now my mind is wandering....

I like this

You may not perceive the value that they do, but they do- so they pay the extra money.

But I think it does lead us back to where we've already been. If Olav starts to perceive that what he is paying for is not worth it, then he will start looking for a place in Jersey or wherever. Apartments and houses are things we can love (or hate) to live in, but the question of value/utility has to be answered. He may stay there forever bitching about the prices or eventually come to decide he can live with it. Or, he may find himself parked on the beach near some college town - ogling the local coeds - and saying "I never imagined that people could live like this"

Maybe we have discovered why the super rich have multiple homes in different locations.

 

[Sam]

Why people live in such high priced East & West Coast areas is beyond me, except that that is where the high paying jobs are.

Pretty much the same reason that people buy a Mercedes or BMW instead of a Toyota; or wear nice clothes, or go ski-ing instead of stayng home.

I don't see it that way. Before a normal person can afford a Merc or a BMW, he/she should first be able to afford a Toyota. Before one can afford nice clothes, one must be able to afford cheap clothes. So as far as cars and clothes are concerned the choices are concious. Willing to pay more for the perceived higher quality.

But it does not work that way with where one lives. People live in NYC, Boston, SF, San Diego, etc... and pay outrageous money for rent, mortgage, mainly because that's the only way they know how to live. They propably never had a chance to explore other areas.

I remember taking my first road trip accross america in 86. I was already an engineer then. Almost everywhere I visited in the south and west was much much better than my lousy, expensive, crazy, and ridiculous Boston.

 

[haha]

I remember taking my first road trip accross america in 86. I was already an engineer then. Almost everywhere I visited in the south and west was much much better than my lousy, expensive, crazy, and ridiculous Boston.

Sam, are you saying you didn't like Boston?

 

[ERD50]

IMO, a University gives you a cheap diverse offering of cultural events, a world-class library, and continuing education opportunities. And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.

Weren't there some long threads recently on 'great places to retire'?

I think the admins could delete them all, and just place your post in the 'Best of the Boards'. IMO you nailed it in one sentence

The second sentence is delightful icing on the cake....

Seriously, the little bit that DW and I have thought about this subject, the more we are drawn to a university town, should we decide to move.

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

that $300 to $400 a month for LIRR and metro card is a killer

I was talking more in time... one of my previous co-worker had a two hour commute each way. Used to work on the train or watch a movie... throw on top of that a 8 to 10 hour day and the occasional 12 hours and you are talking some real time killing...

 

[al_bundy]

i know someone that used to come in from port jefferson way out in suffolk

 

[CuppaJoe]

How often do you take advantage of the Opera House and other cultural attractions? I used to live in the city, but the thing I liked most about it was the variety of food.

I moved to a semi-rural area with easy access to the city by ferry, and I find myself rarely visiting the city. It's nice to know it's there, but we probably go back about once/month or so.

What I really miss is being near a University. Especially one with a good cheap sailing club....

I'm a glutton for the cultural stuff, museums, art galleries, classes, lectures; bought four opera tix for the fall season (of nine operas) and may buy more at the door and/or bring along a friend who qualifies for rush tix. Picked up an ACT brochure at lunch hour today and was relieved that the stuff I really want to see doesn't conflict with opera season. Fugard (my fav), Gogol, Mamet and Shepard, I'm salivating. Berkeley Rep in doing a "After the Quake" in October--it's going to be a busy month.

I also love the variety of food, Thai, Vietnamese, genuine NY-style delis, etc. There's a great new place in the Presidio in the Lucus complex, Pres a Vi, where someone like me can get in without a reservation, amazing in-house baker and pastry chefs there; and affordable if you stay on the "top" part of the menu.

I'm affraid I would rarely get into the city if I moved away. Sort of like now, I get to places like Muir Woods and Mt. Tam only about once a year or so. Love riding the Ferry boats but also only do so rarely.

Cuppa

 

[CuppaJoe]

Have you ever lived in a University town, Ha? IMO, a University gives you a cheap diverse offering of cultural events, a world-class library, and continuing education opportunities. And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.

I really blew in location-wise. Next time I move I'll make sure it is closer than a 40-min. bus ride from a good, cheap college or nude beach. Don't get to Baker's Beach nearly often enough.

 

[Brat]

Humm... nude beaches: one at Rooster Rock, another on Sauvie Island used 2-3 months a year (except for the goose-bump crowd). State University, great public transit. Lots of condos under construction, prices should 'moderate' in the next year or two. For renters, active apartment rating website.

 

[haha]

Have you ever lived in a University town, Ha? IMO, a University gives you a cheap diverse offering of cultural events, a world-class library, and continuing education opportunities. And if you pick one by a beach, you also get a lot of almost-naked coeds and good recreational opps.

I agree about being near a university. Right now I am about 2 1/2 miles from UW. I also like being near a medical library.

I would not give these amenities up except under considerable financial pressure.

Ha

 

[Gumby]

I was talking more in time... one of my previous co-worker had a two hour commute each way. Used to work on the train or watch a movie... throw on top of that a 8 to 10 hour day and the occasional 12 hours and you are talking some real time killing...

That is my life. I live in Connecticut but w*rk in Manhattan. It is almost exactly 2 hours door to door. On a good day I leave home at 6:30 am and return at 8:30 pm.

 

[W2R]

That is my life. I live in Connecticut but w*rk in Manhattan. It is almost exactly 2 hours door to door. On a good day I leave home at 6:30 am and return at 8:30 pm.

That's rugged. TOO rugged, for me. I'd rather flip burgers in Noplace, Texas, than put up with that for any job. I would figure out how to ER on a burger-flipper's salary, which would probably be easier to do than what you are doing.

Your area is supposed to have great food, great cultural opportunities, and a thriving economy, but you can't experience that if you are in your car or on a train for four hours a day, not to mention working. You probably can't spend much if any time with friends and family, and I would imagine that you don't have time to enjoy your higher standard of living.

 

[cho oyu]

But it does not work that way with where one lives. People live in NYC, Boston, SF, San Diego, etc... and pay outrageous money for rent, mortgage, mainly because that's the only way they know how to live. They propably never had a chance to explore other areas.

I'm sure that for some portion of the population this is true. On the other hand, there are some major benefits to living on the coasts (in particular, the west coast, which I am more familiar with).

You live within 3-4 hours of thousands of miles of hiking/biking trails, 14000' mountains, excellent skiing, incredible climbing locations, and you are still close enough to the ocean to surf. Living in the LA area, I had played sand volleyball at the beach, skied, and taken a quick mountain bike ride on the same day. If one is an outdoor enthusiast, west of the Rockies is the place to be.

Ethnic foods are incredible - you actually get real Mexican, Afghani, Armenian, Vietnamese, Persian, or a variety of other foods. And they are all within ten miles of each other.

And, very importantly, there is in general a significant amount of tolerance - mostly due to the incredible mix of different races and cultures. Sometimes it's nice to learn about other places and people without really leaving your own backyard.

Finally, many of these cities are hotbeds for academic and industry jobs. A large majority of the top engineering/science universities are on the coasts. San Diego, San Francisco, and Boston are tops in bioengineering; Silicon Valley is, well, Silicon Valley. San Francisco and New York have finance.

 

[old woman]

I am in Seattle and have lived in many states, FL, GA, AZ, CA, OH, MI, AK and have driven back and forth across the land several times. I haven't been to NYC but I have been to Niagara Falls. Most places have something good to offer and somethings others like and I don't. First I hate flat land, I spent maybe 6 years in Detroit, Michigan it was so boring landscape wise. A view seems important to me, my favorite view is driving south out of Seattle along Boeing field with an airplane landing yards away and Mt Rainier in front of me, it always makes me smile. I like trees and lakes and Puget Sound and most of all I like being a native not a visitor. We were salmon fishing yesterday and I was trying to tell a man where a lake is but he was from Idaho so didn't know where anything was until I said a river he knew. I love living where I can go where ever I want, never need a map and never get lost and know exactly what I will find when I get there. I don't change much, we are going camping next month saying in the same campsite we get every time, fishing for the same fish in the same part of the lake. Yesterday the river we fished was the same river we fish every odd numbered fall using the same tackle that we buy in the same store. Sure I live 2 hours to the ocean and 2 hours to ski slopes but I have never been skiing and only go to the ocean every few years probably not 15 times in 40 years but I know the towns and beaches since I have been going almost 60 years so when we decide to go we can choose which town to go to without looking anything up.
We don't like hot weather or really cold weather, Seattle has nice overcast days and drizzle, yesterday fishing it rained the first half hour then let up and by noon coats came off but it never got too hot. We used air conditioning a little in July but haven't had it on lately thinking of removing it for winter soon maybe before we go on vacation it won't get very hot again this year.
I can't think of any place more miserable for me than Las Vegas, Phoenix, Miami, New Mexico, LA or New Orleans I have been to most of them and lived in half of them and they aren't my kinda towns. I know I don't like Detroit, or anywhere in Ohio and don't think I would enjoy any cold states in the winter.
I won't move farther than the lake where we go camping and fishing the rest of my life, my family is here and it is home.

 

[Olav23]

Wow! I didn't think I'd get such a response! And nice to see people come out of the NYC closet

I completely agree that someone should charge as much as they can, the whole free market system. What I was most peeved about was the fact that we were "sold" on the fact that the building was great since they "rarely raise the rent more than 4-5% a year". This is the crap you get to deal with day-to-day, double talk to get you sold, rip you off, and move on to the next [-]victim[/-]customer. I didn't mean that I wanted to sue property owners for jacking up the rent, I wanted to sue these sleazy sweatshop brokers that lie at every turn, and collect 15% of a year's rent to open a door for you and ask you if you want it or not.

That is a great point that it is sorta a balance game. As soon as the balance tips in a direction, I really start to question whether it is worth it. I could *never* do a 2 hour commute for a larger house. I live 15 minutes from my work by express train, and have enough of the train as it is

Unfortunately, I have the perspective of someone who grew up in the suburbs in the south. My friends are all engineers back home, like myself, and though I earn 2-3x as much money as them, they all have the 3000sq ft cookie cutter McMansions, and can't believe "I can survive in only 400sq ft and pay how much"

Funny story, I just came back from visiting family back in Florida where I grew up. I walked into a Super Wal-mart, and almost fell over at the expanse of it all. It is hard to fathom how cheap land must be down there in comparison. You literally couldn't see end to end.

I guess the problem is I still have the Florida suburban mind-set, but am living the urban life. So, it is some sort of mental context switch to try to join the two concepts. Buying isn't much of an option in NYC. Even if you can afford the mortgage itself, they put $1500 right on top for maintenance. So, paying $2k for a rental unit, or paying $1500 for maintenance +$500 for the actual apartment won't get you much. Maybe a cardboard box without a river view

I originally lived in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn when I first moved to NYC. Then the market heated up significantly and oddly it was the same price as living in Manhattan. Park Slope, and the other nice areas of Brooklyn are similar. I admit I have never been to Queens, but have heard some stuff is cheap out there. I've heard that it has a lot of pollution and the trains suck on weekends. That is mostly hearsay, though I admit, and might be city-elitism

I have been reading that if you are willing to move to Jersey City, they have "luxury" apartments on the waterfront. One place, Liberty Towers, offers a heated indoor pool on a high floor with a view, a gym in the building, washer and dryer in every unit, game room, etc. And the studios are double the size of a comparable unit in the city for the same price. Now, I imagine they aren't giving this away. The area is probably sketchy outside of the indoor oasis, but I'm gonna go check it out this weekend. I don't know enough about Queens to even know where to start. I've also read some lux buildings have gone up in Long Island City, with a similar story. Beautiful building, but be careful leaving the building. This is the cost of doing business in NYC. Pay a significant premium to live in a nice area, or enjoy luxuries nearby with the risk of living across the street from a ghetto. And having a 5'2" wife, that is just an option I want to avoid.

All in all, to be honest, the plan is to work for another year or two here and then move back to the 'burbs down south. I think it is probably similar for many people here. Earn a nice income for a few years, then take that premium of cash and move back south to enjoy the wealth in comparison to your peers, and relax. It is sorta early-retirement from the urban stress as I see it. Instead of a date countdown of when I am retiring, it is more of a date where I can kick back and go back to that slow lifestyle of the south (and working for less pay, but having a nice size savings to reduce the risks), if that makes sense.

And there are a ton of places you *could* live. I think a lot of times it ends up being where you put down roots. It is that balance between enough attractions and a group of friends and family for support. Cellphones, webcams, instant messenger, it doesn't change the landscape. There is just something to be said for face time with friends and family.

Wow, I sorta rambled on for too long, but thanks everyone for the responses!

 

[brewer12345]

I have been reading that if you are willing to move to Jersey City, they have "luxury" apartments on the waterfront. One place, Liberty Towers, offers a heated indoor pool on a high floor with a view, a gym in the building, washer and dryer in every unit, game room, etc. And the studios are double the size of a comparable unit in the city for the same price. Now, I imagine they aren't giving this away. The area is probably sketchy outside of the indoor oasis, but I'm gonna go check it out this weekend. I don't know enough about Queens to even know where to start. I've also read some lux buildings have gone up in Long Island City, with a similar story. Beautiful building, but be careful leaving the building. This is the cost of doing business in NYC. Pay a significant premium to live in a nice area, or enjoy luxuries nearby with the risk of living across the street from a ghetto. And having a 5'2" wife, that is just an option I want to avoid.

Jersey City is fine around the waterfront, but gets sketchy pretty quickly as you drift further away.

I'd skip LIC. Nice enough in the gentrified areas, but Queensbridge (projects) is still there and like all newly gentrified areas, it has crappy infrastructure and lingering higher crime. Its worth at least taking a look at Astoria, which is pretty nice and fairly hip.

I am getting sick of my extreme commute, but I feel trapped in my job. I don't want to move within the area and I can't afford the areas materially closer to the job.

 

[al_bundy]

the worst i've seen the subway in queens is the queens blvd lines run express once every few months in one direction for construction. but pretty much everyone in queens has a car so no one cares.

i work in LIC and construction everywhere with manhattan prices. been working here for a few years and the change in the area is amazing. there is like 4 subway trains that stop here bringing people from all over. there is a strip of a few blocks on Vernon blvd with all the nice restaraunts that is close to the City Lights building. everything else is kind of grungy. 2 years it will be better since they are moving the UN here and some of the old buildings are being knocked down to build hotels or whatever.

NYC RE is pretty much fair value now. 10 years ago you could buy a 2 bedroom in a nice area of queens like forest hills for about what your income was or a little less. now it's 3 to 1 price to income ratio or mortgage to income ratio. once in a while i check the prices of the old apartment my mom sold to move out west and it hasn't gone up in 2 years because it's a bad building. my place is up like 20% over last year. you have to be very picky with the building you choose

 

[Brat]

After graduation I worked in NYC (lived at the London Terrace for a while). Loved it but didn't expect to earn enough to buy a co-op and raise a family there. However, I recommend the city as a great place to gain professional experiance. Yes, housing isn't cheap but consider it part of the cost of a real-life internship.

Portland has Oregon Graduate Institute which serves the Silicon Forrest workforce, Seattle has UW - which is no slouch either (except football ). What Universities add to the community is a workforce that serves the needs of employment creating businesses. That, in turn, supports a vibrant cultural life (and home values).

Choices abound... If you are feeling trapped it is time to map a solution that works for you.

 

[W2R]

I completely agree that someone should charge as much as they can, the whole free market system. What I was most peeved about was the fact that we were "sold" on the fact that the building was great since they "rarely raise the rent more than 4-5% a year". This is the crap you get to deal with day-to-day, double talk to get you sold, rip you off, and move on to the next [-]victim[/-]customer. I didn't mean that I wanted to sue property owners for jacking up the rent, I wanted to sue these sleazy sweatshop brokers that lie at every turn, and collect 15% of a year's rent to open a door for you and ask you if you want it or not.

OK, there is something that I am not understanding. Since you have an apartment now that can be your base of operations, so to speak, could you now go out and find another apartment on your own without the "assistance" of one of these lying brokers, and move there? That sounds like a possible solution to these problems. This broker sounds like bad news.

 

[al_bundy]

this is how renting in NYC works. most landlords list with RE brokers since the renter pays the fee. a no-fee apartment in NYC is like a myth. it's possible to find, but extremely difficult

 

[W2R]

this is how renting in NYC works. most landlords list with RE brokers since the renter pays the fee. a no-fee apartment in NYC is like a myth. it's possible to find, but extremely difficult

What a racket. Thanks for the info, al.

 

[Olav23]

Yes, exactly what Al says. They advertise in free advertisements like Craigslist with the promise of a "$1500 a month, no-fee apartment, not through a broker". You call, and it is the ol' bait and switch. You get transferred to a call center full of these brokers working in big sweatshops, and they tell you that "it was just rented, but they have lots of other listings if you are interested, but are not no-fee".

Life is just so much simpler in the 'burbs. And yes, I don't plan to raise a family here. I am just trying to racket up the salary as much as possible before the long term-plan of moving back to easy suburban life.

 

[Moemg]

New York City is a great place to live for awhile .To me once you've seen a play on Broadway everything else just doesn't cut it but I have to say my favorite city is Boston .I could move there in a minute .