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Old 10-07-2019, 10:03 AM   #41
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Wow, I didn't expect such a one sided stance on this.

I thought there would be more push back to keep the tenants on.
So, the plan is to stick to the 60 day notice understanding full well it could push to 3 to 6 months. This is Cali after all.

Also we are prepared that they could damage the property.
Basically, a worst case scenario.

It amazes me how people become "entitled" when a good deed is done for them.

Even worse, tenants blame the landlord for all this, however, paying the rent on time would have not gotten them into the situation.

Now I'm an unscrupulous landlord according to the local newspaper, putting tenants out during the holidays

Lesson learned.
If you truly believe that your tenants would damage your property or use delay tactics to not pay rent for 3 to 6 months, then these are not the tenants you want and you should absolutely evict them.
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:07 AM   #42
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Checking into an attorney but don't know if i ask the right questions.


1. Cost (obviously)
2. What should I expect for the service?
3. am i missing anything else?


Clearly I'm a newbie at this.
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:58 AM   #43
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I have rentals now for 30 years and these tenants don't seem too bad. What would worry me would be deferred maintenance problems that they are not telling you about for fear rent is going up.
I would just start raising the rent $100 each year slowly looking for the tipping point. These other ideas being thrown around is going to cost you big bucks. If you piss them off it going to cost you 10 grand easy. Late rent might seem like a small problem.
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Old 10-07-2019, 11:25 AM   #44
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@ducky911

So in a year or two i’ll Be back here because of failure to pay rent verses late rent.
Tenants will still prolong the eviction and could still cost me 10k easy.
Furthermore, no telling what new tenant laws get passed in Cali. Between now and then.

In the mean time I am tied to their timeline on when rent gets paid.
Stressful.

Thanks for advice, as I did ask.
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Old 10-07-2019, 11:52 AM   #45
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I see and understand now that you have hit your tipping point. I been there and had my gut in a knot over it, not a good feeling. I have most of my rentals with an agent now but still manage two close to home until they move out.
I gone both ways on this and since than have had my wife pick the tenants and she does a really good job. Couple things she does is look at how they keep themselves and their car. Of course we run a credit check and call old landlord. We are in Calif. also and not to worried about the new laws being thrown around as we stay within the guidelines they proposing anyway.
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:59 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by workmyfingerstothebone View Post
Checking into an attorney but don't know if i ask the right questions.


1. Cost (obviously)
2. What should I expect for the service?
3. am i missing anything else?


Clearly I'm a newbie at this.
If you are talking to attorney that is knowledgeable in landlord/tenant law and what you are trying to do, they will ask any questions that they will need to know to try and achieve your goal.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:19 PM   #47
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I would suggest to make a new 1 year lease agreement where you put a grace period of 3 to 5 days (your choice) then if rent is not received penalty of $300 - $500 on the top of the rent plus interest (5 - 10%) on delay time. If they are not improving or refused to sign the lease agreement, make eviction note, if they do not move, contact police dept.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:28 PM   #48
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Sell it.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:29 PM   #49
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I would suggest to make a new 1 year lease agreement where you put a grace period of 3 to 5 days (your choice) then if rent is not received penalty of $300 - $500 on the top of the rent plus interest (5 - 10%) on delay time. If they are not improving or refused to sign the lease agreement, make eviction note, if they do not move, contact police dept.
This advice might be sound where *you* live but it wouldn't fly in a lot of places for at least a couple of reasons. *THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE*
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:37 PM   #50
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This advice might be sound where *you* live but it wouldn't fly in a lot of places for at least a couple of reasons. *THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE*
+1. I doubt it is legal anywhere.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:50 PM   #51
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This advice might be sound where *you* live but it wouldn't fly in a lot of places for at least a couple of reasons. *THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE*
Not sure if your state is different but in California before you lease your property, you have a right to make a lease agreement where it is quite legal to set up rent (if it is higher then average, you may not have interest in the property) and set penalties for not paying it on time. Of course I cannot give a Legal advise so make a research on web or contact a lawyer.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:54 PM   #52
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Not sure if your state is different but in California before you lease your property, you have a right to make a lease agreement where it is quite legal to set up rent (if it is higher then average, you may not have interest in the property) and set penalties for not paying it on time. Of course I cannot give a Legal advise so make a research on web or contact a lawyer.
Yes, parties are free to contract at will...but that comes with a LOT of caveats, especially in California. One of those caveats is unconscionability which your proposed terms would be good examples of even in my flyover state that favors landlords. Even the word "penalty" in a contract can raise eyebrows in many courts. Bottom line...if you want to draft your own lease, it would be wise to spend a couple hundred bucks to have a competent lawyer review it.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:56 PM   #53
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A guess totally unsupported by any data: The posts here stating that the OP should lower the hammer hard are from people who have never been landlords. Creating an extremely adversarial situation when the tenants are still in possession of the property is very risky for the property owner.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:00 PM   #54
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A guess totally unsupported by any data: The posts here stating that the OP should lower the hammer hard are from people who have never been landlords. Creating an extremely adversarial situation when the tenants are still in possession of the property is very risky for the property owner.
x1000. My DW is involved in the management of 1000s of properties across 5 states and deals with pissed off owners who want to "hammer down" every day. Very often the results are less than pleasant. There is a reason we don't own any rental property.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:28 PM   #55
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I am a landlord and tell you from my experience as well as at least two more (a friend and a relative) who are also landlords and we do use a Lease agreement. If rental market is strong you put penalties as you think is fare, nobody forces a potential renter to sign it - it is voluntary if they want the property. Of course if the renter market is weak, you would not do it but non payment of the rent will follow by eviction notice.
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Old 10-07-2019, 05:31 PM   #56
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I had a 6-page lease when I was an active landlord and it noted that any violation was grounds to terminate the lease. I could also terminate with one month's notice in writing after the first year. I had one eviction (in California) which I handled myself. The clerk of the court even complimented me on my filing. My "secret" was I used Nolo Press' (www.nolo.com) excellent handbooks on landlording. They kept me on solid legal ground and out of trouble. Another "secret" was I always acted nice to the tenants, but never friendly. Always professional. The OP began to fail when it was more important to him to be a nice guy than it was to be a business owner.

All of our tenants thought I was rich and used this to justify their attempts to take advantage of me. I took no nonsense and most of the tenants stayed on for several years. Just like raising children: set the ground rules (the lease) and never let them cross the line. Any missed payment (by the 5th of the month) prompted my immediate phone call and a 3-day notice to pay or vacate if necessary.

Many of the posts (mine included) describe what the OP should have done when this all started. Now that the bad behavior is ingrained and a precedent has been set, it's hard to say what needs to happen to get out of it. But IMO a courteous, professional, tough stance is needed to get back on track. Do you think you can offer cash for the keys back? I haven't read the entire thread, so excuse me if that's not appropriate. These stories always disappoint me, because people want to be nice, but landlords must be professional.
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:06 PM   #57
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These stories always disappoint me, because people want to be nice, but landlords must be professional.

+1 well said

Completely agree
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:17 PM   #58
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Landlord seeking help

I agree with Starsky that "Exceptions created expectations."



We are landlords of a SFH as are several of my family members. We have been fortunate with current tenants. However, there was a time early on when tenants were unhappy about an incomplete repair (as were we -) and the husband said "wife wants to leave".



At first, we were concerned (oh no - we will have to find new tenants) but realized - we can not allow this threat to be an expectation. So we said - Fine, if you want to leave - go - we'll allow you out of lease.

They never left and never said it again.
PS They pay on time every month.



Find a way to reset expectations for on time rent payment !
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:34 PM   #59
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Not sure if your state is different but in California before you lease your property, you have a right to make a lease agreement where it is quite legal to set up rent (if it is higher then average, you may not have interest in the property) and set penalties for not paying it on time. Of course I cannot give a Legal advise so make a research on web or contact a lawyer.
Even if there is no limit on late fees, a tenant taking someone to court would lose if the late fees are excessive. Paying rent late, and doing it over a few months, negates the landlord's ability to evict over late rents, as a precedence has been set. And you cannot evict for not paying late fees.

In MN, I can charge 8% for late fees, by statute.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:25 AM   #60
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. Paying rent late, and doing it over a few months, negates the landlord's ability to evict over late rents, as a precedence has been set.



I'm not a lawyer but this doesn't sound correct, legally.
Meeting with one today so I'll ask him the question.
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