Laurence Kotlikoff - Maximize my SS.com

[timo2]

The deeming thing is what affects DW. She's only 57. I ran the numbers and it looks like it will only cost her $5K over her lifetime, so not so bad (she is subject to GPO so that puts a damper on her benefits anyway.)

As soon as I posted that other letter, a new letter from 'Maximize My Social Security' just arrived with some changes to the list of items 1-4. "[FONT=&quot]These changes impact three groups: those who will reach full retirement age in the next six months, those who are currently between 66 and 70 years old, and those between 66 and 70 who have already used the file and suspend strategy. "
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1. For those becoming 62 after this year, deeming is extended through age 70. Deeming is the requirement that if you take a spousal benefit or a divorcee spousal benefit you need to also take your retirement benefit and vice versa. This leaves you with roughly the larger of the two benefits.
2. No one can collect a spousal or child benefit based on the covered earnings record of a worker who suspends retirement benefits more than six months after the bill becomes law during the period that the worker's retirement benefit remains suspended. The treatment of divorcee spousal benefits in this context is unclear.
3. No one who suspends his/her retirement benefit more than six months after the bill becomes law can collect an excess spousal or excess widow(er) benefit. The treatment of divorcee excess spousal benefits in this context is unclear.
4. Those who suspend their retirement benefits can no longer receive their suspended retirement benefits in a lump sum payment.

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[/FONT]It's on their website https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/node/688

 

[braumeister]

The change certainly appears to affect us.
I filed and suspended and DW began taking spousal at her FRA.
She is two years younger and our SS benefits are roughly the same.

So it seems that in six months she will be forced to switch from taking the spousal benefit to taking her own benefit, losing the option to defer it until age 70. That means a lifetime lower benefit in exchange for some spousal benefit up front.

I certainly hope they pass a correction to this, but I'm pessimistic.

 

[timo2]

The change certainly appears to affect us.
I filed and suspended and DW began taking spousal at her FRA.
She is two years younger and our SS benefits are roughly the same.

So it seems that in six months she will be forced to switch from taking the spousal benefit to taking her own benefit, losing the option to defer it until age 70. That means a lifetime lower benefit in exchange for some spousal benefit up front.

I certainly hope they pass a correction to this, but I'm pessimistic.

My impression was that you are grandfathered in. It's the people who want the start the F&S after 6 months after bill signing that are out of luck.

 

[braumeister]

My impression was that you are grandfathered in. It's the people who want the start the F&S after 6 months after bill signing that are out of luck.

I've seen information both ways. Some say we're grandfathered (well, grandmothered in our case), and some say not. This is all so sudden and confusing it reminds me of the "You have to pass it in order to read it" brouhaha of a few years ago.

 

[RunningBum]

The change certainly appears to affect us.
I filed and suspended and DW began taking spousal at her FRA.
She is two years younger and our SS benefits are roughly the same.

So it seems that in six months she will be forced to switch from taking the spousal benefit to taking her own benefit, losing the option to defer it until age 70. That means a lifetime lower benefit in exchange for some spousal benefit up front.

I certainly hope they pass a correction to this, but I'm pessimistic.

A "correction" would mean fixing an unintended consequence. I think the bill does exactly what it intends it to. You can hope they won't pass the bill at all or back it out, but as I understand it they are fixing something they never really intended people to get in the first place.

 

[Chuckanut]

My long term goal is that SS be financially secure for me, mine and future generations, especially since DB pensions are a thing of the past for most of us. If closing an unintended loophole makes that possible, so be it.

 

[EvrClrx311]

Yah, it's easy to "prove" that what you want to do is the best of all possible alternatives --- if you ignore the alternatives that show the opposite.

Here's a couple he didn't list:
5) Take SS at 62, use the money for your dream vacation hiking Machu Picchu.
6) Take SS at 70, watch Machu Picchu programs on Discovery cable channel, wishing there was a way to lug your oxygen tank and wheel-chair to the Peru highlands.


The sole value of money is what it buys you. Otherwise it's nothing more than Monopoly Dollars. A million $ is worthless to a man on a desert island.

Months late on this one... but +1

Very intelligent post. I think so many people get caught up in the "fairness" and rational thought process that goes into getting to the large sum at the end of the road. Big Picture is for savers (which most of us are, that's why we are here), however when it comes to spending we often lose sight of the more important 'practical' of application. Happiness is the ultimate goal, in all things with life. How you achieve the most happiness is the question we dissect...

 

[travelover]

Yah, it's easy to "prove" that what you want to do is the best of all possible alternatives --- if you ignore the alternatives that show the opposite.

Here's a couple he didn't list:
5) Take SS at 62, use the money for your dream vacation hiking Machu Picchu.
6) Take SS at 70, watch Machu Picchu programs on Discovery cable channel, wishing there was a way to lug your oxygen tank and wheel-chair to the Peru highlands.

I've been to Machu Picchu twice. I'm takin' SS at 70.

 

[timo2]

Months late on this one... but +1

Very intelligent post. I think so many people get caught up in the "fairness" and rational thought process that goes into getting to the large sum at the end of the road. Big Picture is for savers (which most of us are, that's why we are here), however when it comes to spending we often lose sight of the more important 'practical' of application. Happiness is the ultimate goal, in all things with life. How you achieve the most happiness is the question we dissect...

That's true. I've done a couple of big items that would appall an FA, but they reduced the mental stress on the family. That was (is) more important to the pursuit of happiness (the functional motto of the USA). Stress is still a killer, no matter how much money you have.

 

[RunningBum]

On the whole "spend it while your healthy" argument, I visited my parents last week. They took SS at 62 when they retired. They took a pretty big trip most years (domestic, no Machu Picchu) , and a couple shorter ones, and enjoyed their ER, staying on their budget. Moved into an independent living community, still on budget. Due to health reasons as of a few years ago they no longer travel because it's just more work and effort for them to enjoy it. So the travel expenses are gone. They don't even drive anymore, so the car expenses are gone, other than paying gas for people who drive them. Seems like expenses are tailing off, right?

Now they're finding that cooking is an issue. They'd like to move to a place that serves all meals, but those are considerably more expensive, out of their price range at this point. Maybe later when they probably have fewer years remaining, as no issues are life shortening. They are probably around where they'd be hitting the break-even point had they delayed SS, and that larger check sure would help now. So even with the travel and car expense gone, they would really like to be spending more than they did in the 60s and 70s. It's almost more of a need than a like, in their view.

Those Machu Picchu memories aren't worth too much if you're struggling and stressing over meals in your later years.

 

[MBAustin]

...
Now they're finding that cooking is an issue. They'd like to move to a place that serves all meals, but those are considerably more expensive, out of their price range at this point. ...

Off topic, but you might want to check out prepared meal delivery services (Google "prepared meal delivery") - they would probably come out much cheaper than moving into a place with meal service and could be supplemented with super easy to fix items (frozen veggies in microwaveable bags, fruit, bagged salads, etc.) and still be very healthy. Good luck!

 

[cooch96]

On the whole "spend it while your healthy" argument, I visited my parents last week. They took SS at 62 when they retired. They took a pretty big trip most years (domestic, no Machu Picchu) , and a couple shorter ones, and enjoyed their ER, staying on their budget. Moved into an independent living community, still on budget. Due to health reasons as of a few years ago they no longer travel because it's just more work and effort for them to enjoy it. So the travel expenses are gone. They don't even drive anymore, so the car expenses are gone, other than paying gas for people who drive them. Seems like expenses are tailing off, right?

Now they're finding that cooking is an issue. They'd like to move to a place that serves all meals, but those are considerably more expensive, out of their price range at this point. Maybe later when they probably have fewer years remaining, as no issues are life shortening. They are probably around where they'd be hitting the break-even point had they delayed SS, and that larger check sure would help now. So even with the travel and car expense gone, they would really like to be spending more than they did in the 60s and 70s. It's almost more of a need than a like, in their view.

Those Machu Picchu memories aren't worth too much if you're struggling and stressing over meals in your later years.

Excellent point, I hadn't considered that before. I totally respect the opposing opinion now.
But I'd still prefer Macchu Pichu. Good thing I like microwave dinners.

 

[RunningBum]

Off topic, but you might want to check out prepared meal delivery services (Google "prepared meal delivery") - they would probably come out much cheaper than moving into a place with meal service and could be supplemented with super easy to fix items (frozen veggies in microwaveable bags, fruit, bagged salads, etc.) and still be very healthy. Good luck!

Thanks, I suggested checking into local delivery services, but I'll look at online services as well. Right now the fire seems to be out and they aren't going anywhere.

 

[pb4uski]

Actually, around here anyway you could probably go out to eat to a modest place or order takeout every night of the week for much less than the cost of assisted living. True, it is more work because you need to go somewhere or call in an order and not just walk down to the dining room in your own building and sit your butt in a chair and be served, but it is still much more affordable.

Have they explored meals-on-wheels for a few days a week? We also have the frozen "bag" meals quite often.. they are quick (10 minutes prep), reasonably nutritious and inexpensive (~$10 for two or less).

DAunt and Uncle usually have only one big meal a day and go out for it since they no longer enjoy cooking and cleaning.

 

[timo2]

Thanks, I suggested checking into local delivery services, but I'll look at online services as well. Right now the fire seems to be out and they aren't going anywhere.

these companies are supposed to be good Are Cook-At-Home Meal Delivery Services Really Worth It? | Food Republic

some places delivery cooked meals Senior Citizen Meals Delivered Elderly Meal Delivery

 

[RunningBum]

Actually, around here anyway you could probably go out to eat to a modest place or order takeout every night of the week for much less than the cost of assisted living. True, it is more work because you need to go somewhere or call in an order and not just walk down to the dining room in your own building and sit your butt in a chair and be served, but it is still much more affordable.

Have they explored meals-on-wheels for a few days a week? We also have the frozen "bag" meals quite often.. they are quick (10 minutes prep), reasonably nutritious and inexpensive (~$10 for two or less).

DAunt and Uncle usually have only one big meal a day and go out for it since they no longer enjoy cooking and cleaning.

You missed the part where I said they no longer drive, so they can't just go out or pick up take out unless someone takes them--which does happen at times.

I will check out other options that you, timo2 and MBAustin suggested. Getting them to try something new is a challenge though. It's a whole long story, and I don't want to threadjack this any longer. I may start another thread, but solutions that are obvious to you and me have been rejected by them so it's kind of frustrating to even talk about. I brought this up more as a story that people often do need as much many as they get older and more housebound so the "enjoy life while you are mobile" strategy does come with a sacrifice. Not so much that I am looking for a solution.

 

[43WorkYears]

I turned 62 in August. Not claimed yet. I'm not at all concerned about my wife if I go first. She is two years younger than me. She will be well financially whatever happens to me.

This is great news for me, I guess. Where does someone like me go from here. We both got other income incase something goes astray. Any response to help are greatly appreciated. Best to all.


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[43WorkYears]

I'm the first to responded to my question, but any feedback would be helpful. Thanks for any feedback.


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[timo2]

I turned 62 in August. Not claimed yet. I'm not at all concerned about my wife if I go first. She is two years younger than me. She will be well financially whatever happens to me.

This is great news for me, I guess. Where does someone like me go from here. We both got other income incase something goes astray. Any response to help are greatly appreciated. Best to all.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

did you try out firecalc?

 

[RunningBum]

I'm the first to responded to my question, but any feedback would be helpful. Thanks for any feedback.

Maybe start a new thread with specific questions and more details on your situation. You didn't really give much info about what kind of help you are looking for. And maybe wait longer that 13 minutes for a response!

 

[daylatedollarshort]

You missed the part where I said they no longer drive, so they can't just go out or pick up take out unless someone takes them--which does happen at times

Our local senior center has a bus that is either free or very cheap, and $2 meals. Maybe they have something similar in their area.

 

[43WorkYears]

Just looking from more dialogue on this subject. Very very few take SS at 70 and not anyone I know takes it at their FRA. I am referring to people that are financially sound and are well informed about SS. Why wait. Don't get it. The money's there, take it.


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[starry night]

The way I see it, they have (rightly so) streamlined the filing process so we are each allowed to file ONCE. Folks have been manipulating the system in order to file TWICE -- first to file and suspend or file restricted application for the spousal benefit, then later file all over again to get their increased benefit at a later age.
So now we will be compelled to CHOOSE when it is we really truly mean it to begin SS benefits and file ONCE and for all. Makes good sense to me from an administrative standpoint, so SSA doesn't have to handle filers twice. Make the call for yourself -- file early and begin spousal benefits, or wait to file later for larger benefits.

 

[43WorkYears]

Agreed. That's pretty much it. Depends on many other financial and health factors a family may have.


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[rayvt]

The way I see it, they have (rightly so) streamlined the filing process so we are each allowed to file ONCE. Folks have been manipulating the system in order to file TWICE...

Worse yet, from a fairness standpoint, is that the file-and-suspend gaming of the system is done -- and can only be done -- by people who are very well off. The people with average & below average wealth cannot do it.

So the system is:
a) gamed
b) by "the rich"
c) and cannot be gamed by the non-rich.

Seriously unfair.