LBYM? Not in America

Rich_by_the_Bay

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This article states what we all assume, but the extent to which Americans are living beyond their means (mostly by leveraging their houses) is extreme. Only 7 such cases in history, including WW 2 and the Depression.

Party's over, hangover just beginning.
 
At the end of the article, the blurb about the author states that he does not own stocks other than his employer's stock. So where is his retirement money?
 
I was just reading that article also. This article talking about the stock market fall today in Japan also mentions recession:
"as the dollar slumped to a 15-year low against a basket of major currencies on concerns the U.S. economy may be heading into a recession."
If it's not enough that most US citizens are not LBYM our government is saddled with it's largest debt ever (link) at just shy of $9 trillion or nearly $30k per person.


 
As an economist, however, he is well aware that others might not agree with his interpretation of the numbers. "There are people who deny man walked on the moon, and there are people who will deny this, too," he says. "But the data are overwhelming that households are spending more than their income."

We've been getting this same message for years. When you break down the numbers, the negative savings rate is largely due to baby boomers retiring.

By definition, retirees have a negative savings rate. The more retirees we have, the more negative our savings rate will be as a nation.
 
If it's not enough that most US citizens are not LBYM our government is saddled with it's largest debt ever (link) at just shy of $9 trillion or nearly $30k per person.
Most people would look at that graph and think that we're barely halfway to capacity... We're #1, now get out there and spend!!
 
As an economist, however, he is well aware that others might not agree with his interpretation of the numbers. "There are people who deny man walked on the moon, and there are people who will deny this, too," he says. "But the data are overwhelming that households are spending more than their income."

We've been getting this same message for years. When you break down the numbers, the negative savings rate is largely due to baby boomers retiring.

By definition, retirees have a negative savings rate. The more retirees we have, the more negative our savings rate will be as a nation.

What we need is a breakdown of savings rate by age group. The best I could come up with was this: Are you saving too much for retirement? - USATODAY.com

According to this article's graph, 50% have saved less than 50k, excluding home equity. Retire at 67 and hope SS is enough?
 
By definition, retirees have a negative savings rate.

Really? I plan to save when I am retired. That is built into my spreadsheet and into the amount I feel I need in order to retire.
 
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Really? I plan to save when I am retired. That is built into my spreadsheet and into the amount I feel I need in order to retire.

Your and my definition of "saving" is not necessarily equal to that used to compile savings rate data.
 
At the end of the article, the blurb about the author states that he does not own stocks other than his employer's stock. So where is his retirement money?

Most likely mutual funds.
 
Unfunded future liabilities is not just a problem in the US. Japan and Germany are closer to doomsday in that regard, so it'll be interesting to see how they deal with it. One trend is already clear in Japan. Workers keep on working about 10 years past the mandatory retirement age in Japan on average.

The main difference between Japan and the US is that Japanese old folk are generally in better health than American old follk. That is something we'll have to figure out how to deal with on our own.
 
Unfunded future liabilities is not just a problem in the US. Japan and Germany are closer to doomsday in that regard, so it'll be interesting to see how they deal with it.
First, let me say that I'm glad we're all being admonished that we're doomed on the highway to hell. I think it's a good idea for governments to have to account for liabilities and to prepare to fund them. Much of the recent despair over retiree benefits has been instigated by the new requirement for state & local govts to account for and actually fund their healthcare liabilities, not just hand them out at every contract negotiation like Ford & GM & Chrysler in the 1980s. So grappling with the problem, even if it's made overly scary, is a good thing.

Second, I think it's good to focus on the pessimistic scenarios. Too many "good" scenarios rely on statistically challenging feats like "no bad surprises" or "no volatility". Focusing on the pessimistic forces people to, at a minumum, study statistics & history to come up with solutions. Or to at least avoid repeating history.

Third, the "gloomy" forecasts are a better mandate on govts to spend responsibly. You know what'd happen if Social Security was declared to be overfunded, and there'd never be a rebate of our tax payments. At the very minimum the politicians are aware that they can't raise taxes across the board to solve a problem like Medicare, so they're forced to at least pretend to some semblance of fiscal responsibility and solution-seeking.

Fourth, I think the statisticians & actuaries & accountants need better tools. They've been predicting disaster for over four decades now, which tends to reduce their credibility to at best Cassandra, if not the boy who cried "Wolf!" Pretty soon even the politicians are going to decide that there's no consequence for ignoring the problems.

One trend is already clear in Japan. Workers keep on working about 10 years past the mandatory retirement age in Japan on average.
Gosh, they must be so bored & unfulfilled. You know in Japan that it's almost impossible to get a tee time, and the surf sucks too. I wonder if there's a Japanese phrase for "Whaddya DO all day?!?"

Is it possible that the Japanese Boomers have delayed their retirements because their stock market & economy have sucked for the last 1.5 decades? Or, gee, maybe they didn't save enough money either. I'm sure the Japanese I see in Waikiki have a pithy colloquialism for their spending.

The main difference between Japan and the US is that Japanese old folk are generally in better health than American old follk. That is something we'll have to figure out how to deal with on our own.
Higher immigration quotas for geriatric & elder-care specialists... Hawaii's a harbinger of the same issues.
 
Sooo - last time we elected Clinton, the Japanese stopped buying Golf Courses and Sean Connery was in the Rising Sun movie.

Soo - whadda we gonna sell the Chinese? The oil thingy got people upset.

heh heh heh - :rolleyes:

Oh Yeah - raised taxes also as I recall. Foreign stocks yuck, $ and US - yeah!
 
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Yes, I saw him on 60 Minutes. Paints a pretty bleak picture.

I keep hearing how in debt the U.S. is, and so I thought that I'd find out how in debt we are in Canada as compared to the U.S. American national debt vs. Canadian national debt | The News is NowPublic.com The thing that worries me is that no matter how impressive the Canadian #'s and story currently look, and no matter what we do, our economic success, and indeed much of the other nations of the world's success or failure is so absolutely dependent on U.S consumption, that we might as well all be on the same sinking ship along with the U.S.

Here's a possible scenario. Some nation decides that the U.S. is too far in debt to be a good credit risk......If the U.S. is denied credit, they will then speed up the printing press even faster to keep livin' the good life since tax hikes aren't good for gov't popularity, then crazy levels of inflation occur, then up go U.S. interest rates to try to bring some value back to the greenback, then the U.S. citizens and businesses stop spending, and then the rest of us in the world have no jobs and our economies crumble.......Also, try to concentrate on the numbers and ignore the final thought in the highlighted article as it is inflammatory and has nothing to do with the spirit of this post.
 
Sooo - last time we elected Clinton, the Japanese stopped buying Golf Courses and Sean Connery was in the Rising Sun movie.

Soo - whadda we gonna sell the Chinese? The oil thingy got people upset.

heh heh heh - :rolleyes:

I know I know. What we are going to do is bundle of bunch of mortgages, on over priced real estate in California, taken out by people who have a history of not paying off their debts, and give them a fancy name.

Hum Collateralized Debt Obligation has nice ring, slap a good credit rating which we got by paying of folks at Moody's and S&P. We will trade these pieces of paper to the Chinese for container loads of toxic toothpaste and dangerous dog food. Of course they may not fall for this same trick next time.

I am off on my first trip to China, for 18 days. I'll be on the look out for the next financial slight of hand we can use to sucker the Chinese with.
 
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One of many crackpot theories might be this: when the external debt of the USA gets too high, we (the Gov't) will repudiate some or all of that debt. Either outright by legislation or executive order (unlikely) or through credit and/or printing press -- almost certain (it's been happening since about 1933 -- so why not?)
 
Why? What will you be saving it for? :confused:

People save for a lot of things, even older people.

I would like to be able to afford the very best of continuous care facilities if it turns out that I need care. I want to be treated with dignity, respect, and tenderness and given the most expert professional care if/when I become physically or mentally impaired in my very most elderly years.

My mother is in such a facility. It cost an arm and a leg to get into it, plus monthly fees. The facility is run by the residents, so if a caregiver is unkind, uncaring, incompetent, or disrespectful they find themselves unemployed. I think it would be cool if I could afford a place like that. I do not want to be one of the abused elderly that are written about sometimes, and this might be a way to avoid that.

With so many boomers getting older, I would imagine such facilities will be more expensive than we think in thirty years.
 

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