LED home lighting; not quite ready or ready for prime-time?

[dtbach]

My experience:
LEDs last longer, generally, than CFLs
Both LEDs and CFLs have had failures well before their rated lifetimes (for some bulbs)

+1 on that!!! I just had to replace an LED bulb that was less than a year old (although the box claimed 22 years). They may last longer than incandescence bulbs but not all that much. YMMV. .. . . .

 

[gauss]

+1 on that!!! I just had to replace an LED bulb that was less than a year old (although the box claimed 22 years). They may last longer than incandescence bulbs but not all that much. YMMV. .. . . .

What type of warranties are available with LED bulbs?

-gauss

 

[JoeWras]

The Dark Side of LED Lightbulbs - Scientific American
From the Scientific American on LED solution issues as possible worse than CFL:

LEDs do have a dark side. A study published in late 2010 in the journal Environmental Science and Technology found that LEDs contain lead, arsenic and a dozen other potentially dangerous substances. LEDs are touted as the next generation of lighting,” says Oladele Ogunseitan, one of the researchers behind the study and chair of the University of California (UC)-Irvine’s Department of Population Health & Disease Prevention. “But as we try to find better products that do not deplete energy resources or contribute to global warming, we have to be vigilant [about] toxicity hazards….”

Ogunseitan and other UC-Irvine researchers tested several types of LEDs, including those used as Christmas lights, traffic lights, car headlights and brake lights. What did they find? Some of the worst offenders were low-intensity red LEDs, which were found to contain up to eight times the amount of lead, a known neurotoxin, allowed by California state law and which, according to researchers, “exhibit significant cancer and noncancer potentials due to the high content of arsenic and lead.” Meanwhile, white LEDs contain the least lead, but still harbor large amounts of nickel, another heavy metal that causes allergic reactions in as many as one in five of us upon exposure. And the copper found in some LEDs can pose an environmental threat if it accumulates in rivers and lakes where it can poison aquatic life.

Wow. I have to remember to stop licking and eating my LED fixtures. I also better stop crushing them and using my blower to distribute the dust in my house.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If the choice these days is between CFLs and LEDs, aren't LEDs still the relatively less toxic choice? I didn't see an LED hazardous waste disposal box at Home Depot.

 

[aja8888]

Wow. I have to remember to stop licking and eating my LED fixtures. I also better stop crushing them and using my blower to distribute the dust in my house.

Agreed, lots of products contain heavy metals and many are found naturally in the environment. Your computer hardware and circuit boards are heavily laden with precious and non-precious metals, some of which are very toxic. Just don't eat or vaporize your dead LEDs!

 

[skipro33]

I just bought 4 LED lights to replace 4 Halogen 50w bulbs that spotlight my front porch. From 200 watts down to 30 watts. There were several brands and light color. I went with a warm white. Brand prices ranged from $15 a bulb down to $11 a bulb. I got the cheaper priced ones. (Was there any doubt?) I'll keep the boxes and receipts in case they fail.

I'll be replacing lights as they burn out, but those halogen lasted 8 years and of the 4, only 2 are burned out. Not sure what I'll do with the other two that are still intact. Any ideas? I'd not replace them, except I want all the lights to look the same on the porch.

 

[samclem]

Not sure what I'll do with the other two that are still intact. Any ideas?

Have they got a standard base that can screw into a portable clamp-on light? They make good spot heaters in the winter, etc. Maybe not much use in Placerville (CA).
Otherwise, hang on to them so you can show your grandkids how we used to make light using just hot wires.

 

[rodi]

We swapped our highest use lamps to LED. Also any CFLS (that were rated dimmable) to LEDs - because LEDs handle a dimmer switch better.

But our lesser used lamps are still CFL. As the CFLs die, we'll replace them with LED... but I don't see any reason to change out a working, already efficient, bulb.

 

[Gumby]

About 8-9 years ago, we switched all our incandescents to CFL and saw a big drop in electricity usage. Now, as and when a CFL burns out, we replace it with an LED. I prefer the light from the LEDs.

 

[richfei]

I'm curious, has anyone managed to get any deals (current or past) for LEDs
CFLs are a dime a dozen, but I don't often see much for LEDs
I think some cities and states offer rebates, but I've never been that fortunate

I was able to jump on 20 of these last year for about $3.50 each
But that's it

Verbatim® 9.5 Watt A19 LED Light Bulb (60 Watt Equivalent), Soft White, Dimmable | Staples®

 

[stephenson]

Daylateanddollarshort ...if CFLs were burning out as fast as incandescents, you have a situation where you have either gotten the world's worst CFLs or have had the world's best incandescents.

LEDs will replace all other lighting as time goes on ...sort of the march of technology, but initially it will be cost and utility driven.

It will make huge differences in the total power usage for every house ... Even total electrical panel size will decrease ...and amazing change, yes?


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[ERD50]

Daylateanddollarshort ...if CFLs were burning out as fast as incandescents, you have a situation where you have either gotten the world's worst CFLs or have had the world's best incandescents. ...

I've had some CFLs that went out quicker than filament bulbs, some that lasted much longer. There's a circuit in there, many parts, so some early failures would not be unusual.

LEDs will replace all other lighting as time goes on ...sort of the march of technology, but initially it will be cost and utility driven.

It will make huge differences in the total power usage for every house ... Even total electrical panel size will decrease ...and amazing change, yes?

Yes, that is an amazing concept. Can you explain it further for us?

This site says that lighting accounts for ~ 12% of home electrical usage.

https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_where_money

So even infinitely efficient LEDs would provide a 12% reduction in home power (is that huge?). Panels generally come in 200A, 100A, and 60A sizes. I'm finding it tough to count on a panel size drop for a 10% ~12% change. So please enlighten us (use an LED of course)!

Or another way to look at it - if I had TWENTY 60W filament bulbs burning (why would I do that?), they are drawing 10A - again, not enough to resize a panel, is it?

-ERD50

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Daylateanddollarshort ...if CFLs were burning out as fast as incandescents, you have a situation where you have either gotten the world's worst CFLs or have had the world's best incandescents.

I am unclear why the need for the snarky comment because my experience with CFLs doesn't match yours. Longevity seems to be a common issue among many CFL users from what I have read.

From House Logic -

"If there’s one topic that has people talking, it’s CFL lighting. Here are just a few of the comments HouseLogic has received about CFL longevity or the lack thereof"

CFLs: Are Your New Bulbs Burning Out? | Light Bulbs for Home

and

"Get used to frequent recycling. One of the biggest myths in all the CFL hype is the rated life of the bulb. You'll see blog post and article after article repeating the same misleading "fact" that you will get 6,000 or more hours of life from the CFL. Well, both consumer complaints and lab research are showing how untrue this is....If the CFL is used with 5 to 30 minute use cycles like most incandescents, the life is reduced 70% to 85%. That means your 6,000 hour bulb is now lasting 900 hours, less than many incandescent bulbs."

http://homerepair.about.com/od/electricalrepair/ss/CFL_recycling_3.htm

 

[daylatedollarshort]

This site says that lighting accounts for ~ 12% of home electrical usage.

I don't know what percent lighting was for our usage, but once we got the smart meters and we could see were we were using electricity hour by hour, most of those charts, for us anyway, were really not true.

 

[JoeWras]

I don't know what percent lighting was for our usage, but once we got the smart meters and we could see were we were using electricity hour by hour, most of those charts, for us anyway, were really not true.

It is like the constant quote I see about home car washing. A common one says, "The average person uses 100 gallons of water to wash the car at home." I heard this time and time again, quoted by our dutiful local media, during our last big drought about 6 years ago.

I say, WHAT?

Turns out that is true if you turn on your hose and just let it run uncontrolled the whole time you wash your car for the average 10 minutes it takes.

Really, how many people leave a hose running without a control sprayer these days? Seriously.

When it comes to "averages" of water, gas or electricity quoted in media, I am very wary of such numbers. There is always an agenda behind them.

 

[ERD50]

I don't know what percent lighting was for our usage, but once we got the smart meters and we could see were we were using electricity hour by hour, most of those charts, for us anyway, were really not true.

Well, they are averages, so they won't be true for everyone, or like the 2.4 child average (or whatever it is these days), it won't be true for anyone.

It is like the constant quote I see about home car washing. A common one says, "The average person uses 100 gallons of water to wash the car at home." I heard this time and time again, quoted by our dutiful local media, during our last big drought about 6 years ago.

I say, WHAT?

Turns out that is true if you turn on your hose and just let it run uncontrolled the whole time you wash your car for the average 10 minutes it takes.

Really, how many people leave a hose running without a control sprayer these days? Seriously.

When it comes to "averages" of water, gas or electricity quoted in media, I am very wary of such numbers. There is always an agenda behind them.

I don't know, 12% sounds pretty realistic to me. You've got things like a fridge running 24x7, heating and cooling is like dozens of bulbs at once, plus many misc things.

Got a better average number?

Heck, even if it was double, I can't see changing a panel size over it.

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

Daylateanddollarshort ...if CFLs were burning out as fast as incandescents, you have a situation where you have either gotten the world's worst CFLs or have had the world's best incandescents.

LEDs will replace all other lighting as time goes on ...sort of the march of technology, but initially it will be cost and utility driven.

It will make huge differences in the total power usage for every house ... Even total electrical panel size will decrease ...and amazing change, yes?


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

I had 4 incandescent bulbs in a half bath at my last house... they were there when I bought it... they were still there when I sold the house 25 years later... the bathroom was used every day I was there (well, I guess you have to take out 3 years when I was an expat).... the light would go on... do your business and off... so, from maybe one minute up to 15...

I would be hard pressed to find a CFL that could do the same...

When I first started to use CFLs, they would burn out easily... even the couple that I used for lighting the house at night which would burn when it got dark until going to bed... the newer ones are much better, but still go out faster than they state...

I am moving to LEDs.... so far have replaced only the kitchen pot lights and a couple of others... will be doing more as others go out....

 

[daylatedollarshort]

When it comes to "averages" of water, gas or electricity quoted in media, I am very wary of such numbers. There is always an agenda behind them.

I wonder if there is an agenda, too. Cooking is a big percent for us and I've never seen that as a biggie on any energy chart, yet we can see the spikes on our energy reports when we use even the convection oven.

 

[AllDone]

I was really startled when a CFL burned out at my last house but then I thought about it and realized that it had been in use for eight years. The rest of them were going strong when we left.

I put LEDs into the current house and my husband said we had a big drop in our electric bill, but I don't remember the numbers. I used Home Depot Eco-something from Cree for the recessed cans. The light is very nice and they dim well. Of course the price took a big drop the next year. I did have one that flickered, but I just took it back to HD and handed it over. As the CFLs die in floor and table fixtures, I'll replace them with LEDs, but so far no deaths.

EcoSmart, 6 in. 9.5-Watt (65W) Soft White Dimmable LED Downlight, ECO-575L at The Home Depot - Tablet

I have a Philips LED in one fixture. It's shaped like an A-type incandescent bulb except that it's flat. It makes me smile every time I see it because it's so silly.

 

[bUU]

Wow. I have to remember to stop licking and eating my LED fixtures. I also better stop crushing them and using my blower to distribute the dust in my house.

Well, the key is that they don't burn out anywhere near as soon as CFLs, so they don't make it into the trash at anywhere near the frequency of CFLs.

 

[explanade]

I had LED cans installed throuout for a remodel. Would be annoyed if I had to replace any of them for another decade at least.

The CFLs I had have burned out. Other thing is, when it gets cold, it takes a few minutes for the CFLs to reach brightness. This is in California.

 

[BTravlin]

I replaced 18 can lights in the ceiling with sealed LED units and have been very pleased.

pros:

- better quality light (to me anyway)
- last longer than CFL's which had terrible longevity for me
- no longer have to clean the lens cover of dust and dead bugs
- reduced energy usage

cons:

- initial expense

 

[Nunthewiser]

Other thing is, when it gets cold, it takes a few minutes for the CFLs to reach brightness. This is in California.

I actually like this feature of CFLs that most folks complain about. Walk into the cold bathroom, flip the light and the CFLs sort of fade on instead of WHAP. Easier on the pupils.

 

[Brett_Cameron]

What type of warranties are available with LED bulbs?

-gauss

IIRC some are warranted for 8-10 years. I had one fail that I bought at Home Depot. I took the bulb back and they wanted the original packaging that it came in since I did not have the receipt. They no longer sold that brand.

 

[Fishingmn]

What type of warranties are available with LED bulbs?

-gauss

The ones I bought at Home Depot are supposed to have a 10 year warranty. I actually had 2 of them fail in the first year and took them back there and they exchanged them no questions asked.