LED home lighting; not quite ready or ready for prime-time?

[Nunthewiser]

Quote:

Our CFLs were burning out like incandescents. We started the switch over to LEDs several years ago and have not had to replace a single bulb yet.

I am the odd man out. We replaced all the edisons with CFLs in 2007. Had one burn out since then.

Installed LEDs to replace halogen tracklights. 2 of 8 are dead within six months....

[RockyMtn]

We are doing a major remodel on a house and are going with LED cans and LED landscape lighting. Not changing can lights and having the ability for dimmers is the main reason on interior. On the exterior I just don't like messing with changing the burned out lights, halogen landscape lights don't last that long and are expensive to replace.

[samclem]

I've got some enclosed overhead fixtures in our bathrooms, the CFLs last about 2-3 years in moderate use. They just get too hot, and I'd guess LEDs would fare the same (unless they get highly efficient and make less heat). I should probably just change out the fixtures.

[Running_Man]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...bulb-concerns/
From the Scientific American on LED solution issues as possible worse than CFL:

LEDs do have a dark side. A study published in late 2010 in the journal Environmental Science and Technology found that LEDs contain lead, arsenic and a dozen other potentially dangerous substances. LEDs are touted as the next generation of lighting,” says Oladele Ogunseitan, one of the researchers behind the study and chair of the University of California (UC)-Irvine’s Department of Population Health & Disease Prevention. “But as we try to find better products that do not deplete energy resources or contribute to global warming, we have to be vigilant [about] toxicity hazards….”

Ogunseitan and other UC-Irvine researchers tested several types of LEDs, including those used as Christmas lights, traffic lights, car headlights and brake lights. What did they find? Some of the worst offenders were low-intensity red LEDs, which were found to contain up to eight times the amount of lead, a known neurotoxin, allowed by California state law and which, according to researchers, “exhibit significant cancer and noncancer potentials due to the high content of arsenic and lead.” Meanwhile, white LEDs contain the least lead, but still harbor large amounts of nickel, another heavy metal that causes allergic reactions in as many as one in five of us upon exposure. And the copper found in some LEDs can pose an environmental threat if it accumulates in rivers and lakes where it can poison aquatic life.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunthewiser I am the odd man out. We replaced all the edisons with CFLs in 2007. Had one burn out since then. Installed LEDs to replace halogen tracklights. 2 of 8 are dead within six months....

My CFL's last so long I'm very pleased with them, (and I had stocked up) I have about 15 years worth of bulbs in the cupboard, plus I have 18 LED bulbs (I paid $3 ea a yr ago).

So I won't be buying lights for the rest of my life

[dtbach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett_Cameron My experience: LEDs last longer, generally, than CFLs Both LEDs and CFLs have had failures well before their rated lifetimes (for some bulbs)

+1 on that!!! I just had to replace an LED bulb that was less than a year old (although the box claimed 22 years). They may last longer than incandescence bulbs but not all that much. YMMV. .. . . .

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtbach +1 on that!!! I just had to replace an LED bulb that was less than a year old (although the box claimed 22 years). They may last longer than incandescence bulbs but not all that much. YMMV. .. . . .

What type of warranties are available with LED bulbs?

-gauss

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Running_Man The Dark Side of LED Lightbulbs - Scientific American From the Scientific American on LED solution issues as possible worse than CFL: LEDs do have a dark side. A study published in late 2010 in the journal Environmental Science and Technology found that LEDs contain lead, arsenic and a dozen other potentially dangerous substances. LEDs are touted as the next generation of lighting,” says Oladele Ogunseitan, one of the researchers behind the study and chair of the University of California (UC)-Irvine’s Department of Population Health & Disease Prevention. “But as we try to find better products that do not deplete energy resources or contribute to global warming, we have to be vigilant [about] toxicity hazards….” Ogunseitan and other UC-Irvine researchers tested several types of LEDs, including those used as Christmas lights, traffic lights, car headlights and brake lights. What did they find? Some of the worst offenders were low-intensity red LEDs, which were found to contain up to eight times the amount of lead, a known neurotoxin, allowed by California state law and which, according to researchers, “exhibit significant cancer and noncancer potentials due to the high content of arsenic and lead.” Meanwhile, white LEDs contain the least lead, but still harbor large amounts of nickel, another heavy metal that causes allergic reactions in as many as one in five of us upon exposure. And the copper found in some LEDs can pose an environmental threat if it accumulates in rivers and lakes where it can poison aquatic life.

Wow. I have to remember to stop licking and eating my LED fixtures. I also better stop crushing them and using my blower to distribute the dust in my house.

[daylatedollarshort]

If the choice these days is between CFLs and LEDs, aren't LEDs still the relatively less toxic choice? I didn't see an LED hazardous waste disposal box at Home Depot.

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras Wow. I have to remember to stop licking and eating my LED fixtures. I also better stop crushing them and using my blower to distribute the dust in my house.

Agreed, lots of products contain heavy metals and many are found naturally in the environment. Your computer hardware and circuit boards are heavily laden with precious and non-precious metals, some of which are very toxic. Just don't eat or vaporize your dead LEDs!

[skipro33]

I just bought 4 LED lights to replace 4 Halogen 50w bulbs that spotlight my front porch. From 200 watts down to 30 watts. There were several brands and light color. I went with a warm white. Brand prices ranged from $15 a bulb down to $11 a bulb. I got the cheaper priced ones. (Was there any doubt?) I'll keep the boxes and receipts in case they fail.

I'll be replacing lights as they burn out, but those halogen lasted 8 years and of the 4, only 2 are burned out. Not sure what I'll do with the other two that are still intact. Any ideas? I'd not replace them, except I want all the lights to look the same on the porch.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipro33 Not sure what I'll do with the other two that are still intact. Any ideas?

Have they got a standard base that can screw into a portable clamp-on light? They make good spot heaters in the winter, etc. Maybe not much use in Placerville (CA).
Otherwise, hang on to them so you can show your grandkids how we used to make light using just hot wires.

[rodi]

We swapped our highest use lamps to LED. Also any CFLS (that were rated dimmable) to LEDs - because LEDs handle a dimmer switch better.

But our lesser used lamps are still CFL. As the CFLs die, we'll replace them with LED... but I don't see any reason to change out a working, already efficient, bulb.

[Gumby]

About 8-9 years ago, we switched all our incandescents to CFL and saw a big drop in electricity usage. Now, as and when a CFL burns out, we replace it with an LED. I prefer the light from the LEDs.

[richfei]

I'm curious, has anyone managed to get any deals (current or past) for LEDs
CFLs are a dime a dozen, but I don't often see much for LEDs
I think some cities and states offer rebates, but I've never been that fortunate

I was able to jump on 20 of these last year for about $3.50 each
But that's it

Verbatim® 9.5 Watt A19 LED Light Bulb (60 Watt Equivalent), Soft White, Dimmable | Staples®

[stephenson]

Daylateanddollarshort ...if CFLs were burning out as fast as incandescents, you have a situation where you have either gotten the world's worst CFLs or have had the world's best incandescents.

LEDs will replace all other lighting as time goes on ...sort of the march of technology, but initially it will be cost and utility driven.

It will make huge differences in the total power usage for every house ... Even total electrical panel size will decrease ...and amazing change, yes?


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephenson Daylateanddollarshort ...if CFLs were burning out as fast as incandescents, you have a situation where you have either gotten the world's worst CFLs or have had the world's best incandescents. ...

I've had some CFLs that went out quicker than filament bulbs, some that lasted much longer. There's a circuit in there, many parts, so some early failures would not be unusual.

Quote:

LEDs will replace all other lighting as time goes on ...sort of the march of technology, but initially it will be cost and utility driven. It will make huge differences in the total power usage for every house ... Even total electrical panel size will decrease ...and amazing change, yes?

Yes, that is an amazing concept. Can you explain it further for us?

This site says that lighting accounts for ~ 12% of home electrical usage.

https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm...pr_where_money

So even infinitely efficient LEDs would provide a 12% reduction in home power (is that huge?). Panels generally come in 200A, 100A, and 60A sizes. I'm finding it tough to count on a panel size drop for a 10% ~12% change. So please enlighten us (use an LED of course)!

Or another way to look at it - if I had TWENTY 60W filament bulbs burning (why would I do that?), they are drawing 10A - again, not enough to resize a panel, is it?

-ERD50

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephenson Daylateanddollarshort ...if CFLs were burning out as fast as incandescents, you have a situation where you have either gotten the world's worst CFLs or have had the world's best incandescents.

I am unclear why the need for the snarky comment because my experience with CFLs doesn't match yours. Longevity seems to be a common issue among many CFL users from what I have read.

From House Logic -

"If there’s one topic that has people talking, it’s CFL lighting. Here are just a few of the comments HouseLogic has received about CFL longevity or the lack thereof"

CFLs: Are Your New Bulbs Burning Out? | Light Bulbs for Home

and

"Get used to frequent recycling. One of the biggest myths in all the CFL hype is the rated life of the bulb. You'll see blog post and article after article repeating the same misleading "fact" that you will get 6,000 or more hours of life from the CFL. Well, both consumer complaints and lab research are showing how untrue this is....If the CFL is used with 5 to 30 minute use cycles like most incandescents, the life is reduced 70% to 85%. That means your 6,000 hour bulb is now lasting 900 hours, less than many incandescent bulbs."

http://homerepair.about.com/od/elect...ecycling_3.htm

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 This site says that lighting accounts for ~ 12% of home electrical usage.

I don't know what percent lighting was for our usage, but once we got the smart meters and we could see were we were using electricity hour by hour, most of those charts, for us anyway, were really not true.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort I don't know what percent lighting was for our usage, but once we got the smart meters and we could see were we were using electricity hour by hour, most of those charts, for us anyway, were really not true.

It is like the constant quote I see about home car washing. A common one says, "The average person uses 100 gallons of water to wash the car at home." I heard this time and time again, quoted by our dutiful local media, during our last big drought about 6 years ago.

I say, WHAT?

Turns out that is true if you turn on your hose and just let it run uncontrolled the whole time you wash your car for the average 10 minutes it takes.

Really, how many people leave a hose running without a control sprayer these days? Seriously.

When it comes to "averages" of water, gas or electricity quoted in media, I am very wary of such numbers. There is always an agenda behind them.