Lost that loving feeling

[MBAustin]

It is sad, but true for most, including me. I can remember how much I enjoyed my work, put in crazy hours of my own volition, advancing up the ladder, relocations, etc. Probably lasted almost 25 years, but then began a slow decline that really accelerated in the last year or two. Best we can do is leave at the top, though some companies have other ideas that we can't possibly foresee...

Very nice description of my journey to ER - in my case it was year 27 that started the decline - I left at 31-½.

 

[FreeBear]

I remember it like it was yesterday I was in my thirties - Bob my colleague 53 was a competent guy with 35 years with the company. The firm had a early retirement package/promised RIF (reduction in force) Bob was told if you don't take a package you may not have a job.. He lost about 22% (as I remember) of his pension because he wasn't old enough even with the buyout. At his retirement dinner his wife told me he only missed 1 day in all those years ... Bob had been an accident and hurt his leg - "he just couldn't lift his leg high enough to get on the bus."

Hey Ray,

I saw something similar in my late 20's and early 30's as I settled into mini-Mega and a professional career. I realized, based on the painful experiences of the older company veterans, that most careers have a "shelf life" typically extending into (hopefully) one's 50's. So I planned financially for an exit accordingly.

Training and re-training, and, more importantly perhaps, politics, could extend careers a bit, but this wasn't easy or assured. I realized if I was going to make sacrifices, then I would practice LBYM in order to save enough to buy my freedom one day. I ER'd at 46, 6 years ahead of schedule, due to a bit of good planning and LBYM and lots of God's grace. Life's great now!!

Good luck with your procedure and eventually retirement

FB

 

[MikeWillRetire]

Hey Ray,

I realized, based on the painful experiences of the older company veterans, that most careers have a "shelf life" typically extending into (hopefully) one's 50's. So I planned financially for an exit accordingly.

FB

I noticed something similar in my career as an engineer. In my 20's, 30's, and early 40's, I was relevant. But the demands of the job, and family, made it hard to keep up with the changing technology. As I approached 50, it was clear that the new employees were surpassing me because they were more technologically relevant. They didn't have to transition from hand calculations to Excel spreadsheets. From nomographs to software. They were coming out of college comfortable with the latest technological skills that I am struggling to keep up with. My knowledge and experience are losing their value quickly. Luckily, an early retirement is possible for me.

 

[Bflotomny]

Just to shed some light on Mega-Corp’s. Having worked for two firm’s one small and one large. For many years I was always treated well and with respect for my skills and knowledge. Both firms were family owned.
One day Mega-Corp was turned over to the younger generation of family and a bunch of Harvard trained management gurus. My boss became distant and less consultive and more direct to all direct reports. The word was that managers were not to fraternize with direct reports. The reason: it was easier to let people go when you don’t know them and their circumstances. Less than a year later a major reduction in force was made
Just something to ponder

 

[Calico]

Employee loyalty, dedication, and years of service used to be rewarded where I work. That all changed 4 years ago under new management.

I agree with earlier posters - those days are gone. Now it "resets" every two weeks with every paycheck.

When I am ready to leave (in a few years' time) I will give exactly two weeks notice. That is the amount of notice required in order to be paid for accrued leave.

They think nothing of walking an employee out the door with no notice (even a long-term, highly productive employee) so they are not getting one minute more than two weeks notice from me. It's a sad state of affairs, and I'm sorry that's the way they have made it, but it was their choice.

 

[rayinpenn]

Funny thing... At 62 you'd think I'd be out of touch with technology. Just the opposite is true I teach those newbies interested excel. I am a "wiz" (bosses description) at Visual Basic for applications, oracle, teradata, access etc., . How? I bought a book called power programming with via (now in its nth edition) by John Walkenbach. Then I bought many more books. I also took every course I could in programming when the company still paid for them. If you think the younger crowd is naturally better at technology don't believe it. It just takes effort.

I feel no pressure to leave I just know the clock is ticking and I'd like some time in the sun before it sets ... My HS Junior son is all that I'm waiting for.. I have developed a real taste for sitting in the sun, dog at my feet and enjoying the fresh air.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

I noticed something similar in my career as an engineer. In my 20's, 30's, and early 40's, I was relevant. But the demands of the job, and family, made it hard to keep up with the changing technology. As I approached 50, it was clear that the new employees were surpassing me because they were more technologically relevant. They didn't have to transition from hand calculations to Excel spreadsheets. From nomographs to software. They were coming out of college comfortable with the latest technological skills that I am struggling to keep up with. My knowledge and experience are losing their value quickly. Luckily, an early retirement is possible for me.

I noticed megacorp was not paying for any courses/conferences for engineers to stay up to date. They expected us to do it on our own time and dime. Big part of why I decided to retire.

 

[Mulligan]

Psychologically, I feel that it is always good to go out on your own terms and hopefully on a high note!


-gauss

It was for me, but in the field of education its A LOT easier than it is in the real world. I was simply going to retire as my administrative certificate was expiring and I wasn't going back to school. My boss convinced the state to extend it another year and then was rehired with another 2 year contract. But ultimately I couldn't follow through and retired anyways. They bent over backwards to keep me, but I couldn't muster the energy to do the job at the level I felt it deserved for another year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[brett]

I worked for megacorp for 25 years. Through two mergers. Plus at least one reorg per year. Downsizing started in the early nineties and continues to this day.

I had a great job, was paid very well, and enjoyed it very much until the last two years. I have been involved in downsizing numerous employees and have seen many colleagues downsized/terminated. I was fortunate to retire when I did.

I can assure you that loyalty to megacorp is in all probability misplaced. It is one way. And I say that it is quite possible that your megacorp has engaged an outside HR organization to assess employees. The assessment is based on age, salary, benefit consumption/health, vacation days, pension costs etc. Essentially the projected ongoing cost of an employee. It will be one of the tools that a megacorp may use to terminate a loyal employee. It is about today, tomorrow, and the bottom line. Yesterday and last year is no longer a consideration.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

Funny thing... At 62 you'd think I'd be out of touch with technology. Just the opposite is true I teach those newbies interested excel. I am a "wiz" (bosses description) at Visual Basic for applications, oracle, teradata, access etc., . How? I bought a book called power programming with via (now in its nth edition) by John Walkenbach. Then I bought many more books. I also took every course I could in programming when the company still paid for them. If you think the younger crowd is naturally better at technology don't believe it. It just takes effort.

I feel no pressure to leave I just know the clock is ticking and I'd like some time in the sun before it sets ... My HS Junior son is all that I'm waiting for.. I have developed a real taste for sitting in the sun, dog at my feet and enjoying the fresh air.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.

In 1978 when I was starting my consulting (embedded systems) I thought I had a good 5 years before I was obsolete. It was about 35 years later when I finally hanged up the towel. In electronics, software, testing and physics, it seemed to be the over 50s to 60s crowd that had the new ideas, and could actually make them work. But during those 35 years I had to keep changing my skills and way of thinking every decade or so. And it was easy because it was fun! That is the key, when it is fun, it is easy to keep up. When it ceases to be fun, for whatever reason, as it did for me during the last few years, then it is impossible to keep up. I was lucky because I had my own consulting business, so I could fire clients as the process got old, and hire new ones that had exciting new projects. My original plan was to never retire, just be more selective. Toward the end even though there were new opportunities, the excitement of overcoming one more engineering challenge just wasn't there. Politics and posturing, over time, the intellectual stimulation of the challenge is just beaten down, and it is time to go. Good to be FI at that point.

 

[athena53]

And I say that it is quite possible that your megacorp has engaged an outside HR organization to assess employees. The assessment is based on age, salary, benefit consumption/health, vacation days, pension costs etc. Essentially the projected ongoing cost of an employee.

Do they look at just number of dependents on the health insurance or actual utilization, like whose spouse is in chemotherapy and whose kid has expensive asthma meds? I'd think that would be illegal but hey, so is age discrimination but they getaway with it anyway.

 

[Sunset]

In my old company "I'm giving you a one months' notice" was met with: " One month? I think one hour should be all you need to clean out your desk".

Our approach/thinking was having "dead men walking" created problems and often made martyrs out of those leaving. Better to just go when the time is right.

At my old company, they told me Thurs afternoon and said I could leave right away, and they would even pay me for Friday.
They were really eager to get me out the door.

I suggested I show a couple of them how to release the software. So I did.
The next few weeks they struggled a lot and soon their server system crashed for a day.

I still meet a few old buddies from that job for lunch and I don't miss the work at all

 

[rayinpenn]

It isn't that it isn't fun anymore, I know exactly what it is.
It is those freezing cold dark December to March mornings that I linger longer in the hot shower but I can't get that heat into my bones. It is smell of the hot gas stoves as I walk down the stairs into the heat searching out that first cup of hot coffee. All the while the down quilt, a dark bedroom and a warm bed call me back. It is how time evaporates when I sit next to the stove and reading the paper with a the dog at my feet- She too at ten seeks out the heat. All too soon It is time to start start the car that almost feels angry- the icy windows fight the reluctant defroster. It seems an eternity before I can get the car rolling. No coat can can win against the cold that is more mental then physical. It is the cold windy dimly lit cement parking garage in the crime ridden city. It is the line of people at soup kitchen next door. Seeing them I feel just a little bit colder. I can't help but wonder how did they get there and why am I so blessed?

I'm out the door fully an hour later then a few years ago- the truth is It is well past a time for a new adventure -someplace warm.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.

 

[old woman]

My last company was great to the people never wanted to lose people. We had one man who could barely see as purchasing manager, they hired him an assistant, bought him bigger monitors and magnifying lights and did whatever they could not to lose him. His wife had to drive him to work, he was about 60 with about 20 years in and no hint of letting him go. We let his clerk go after she went senile so bad she couldn't do the job. First we had her tested for sleep problems and talked to her many times then hired her an assistant. She was 64.5 years old with about 15 years on the job. The company paid her Cobra until she was 65. The boss went to her home and helped her apply for SS and Medicare because she couldn't have done it.
I gave 4-5 months notice and was asked what they could do to get me to stay but I said I didn't need the money and didn't like driving to work. I was still given a large bonus and retirement gift after 12 years there. I hated to retire but really don't like wearing shoes. My old boss was there 41 years and many people over 35 average age was over 55.

 

[ejman]

It isn't that it isn't fun anymore, I know exactly what it is.
It is those freezing cold dark December to March mornings that I linger longer in the hot shower but I can't get that heat into my bones. It is smell of the hot gas stoves as I walk down the stairs into the heat searching out that first cup of hot coffee. All the while the down quilt, a dark bedroom and a warm bed call me back. It is how time evaporates when I sit next to the stove and reading the paper with a the dog at my feet- She too at ten seeks out the heat. All too soon It is time to start start the car that almost feels angry- the icy windows fight the reluctant defroster. It seems an eternity before I can get the car rolling. No coat can can win against the cold that is more mental then physical. It is the cold windy dimly lit cement parking garage in the crime ridden city. It is the line of people at soup kitchen next door. Seeing them I feel just a little bit colder. I can't help but wonder how did they get there and why am I so blessed?

I'm out the door fully an hour later then a few years ago- the truth is It is well past a time for a new adventure -someplace warm.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.

You write really well! I felt I was there looking over your shoulder as you started your day...

 

[travelover]

....... I hated to retire but really don't like wearing shoes. ....

I love it- this is a classic.

 

[Senator]

I feel a bit guilty as I called HR and they said your eligible for 25 weeks s/t disability...

I have had S/T disability twice. Once for a umbilical hernia and once for surgery on my leg. Both times, I felt good enough the next day to come back, but I took nearly the full two weeks for either incident.

Do not feel bad. The CEO doesn't feel bad when they take a $10M bonus (and a 100% raise) and get the employees a 2% raise. Or the CEO uses the company profits to boost the stock price with a buyback, when they know that they are one of the major stock holders, and have a bunch of stock options.

If you did not get paid, you would likely leave. So if you are getting paid to be gone with S/T disability, take advantage of it.

 

[FUEGO]

I hated to retire but really don't like wearing shoes.

That's how I am with pants.

If it's not freezing outside, I'd just as soon be wearing shorts.

 

[cooch96]

That's how I am with pants.

If it's not freezing outside, I'd just as soon be wearing shorts.

+1 for both! Too bad there aren't many functions where I can go unshod and in my kilt.

Renaissance Fairs and beach weddings and camping, that's about it.

 

[Sarpy]

It isn't that it isn't fun anymore, I know exactly what it is.
It is those freezing cold dark December to March mornings that I linger longer in the hot shower but I can't get that heat into my bones. It is smell of the hot gas stoves as I walk down the stairs into the heat searching out that first cup of hot coffee. All the while the down quilt, a dark bedroom and a warm bed call me back. It is how time evaporates when I sit next to the stove and reading the paper with a the dog at my feet- She too at ten seeks out the heat. All too soon It is time to start start the car that almost feels angry- the icy windows fight the reluctant defroster. It seems an eternity before I can get the car rolling. No coat can can win against the cold that is more mental then physical. It is the cold windy dimly lit cement parking garage in the crime ridden city. It is the line of people at soup kitchen next door. Seeing them I feel just a little bit colder. I can't help but wonder how did they get there and why am I so blessed?

I'm out the door fully an hour later then a few years ago- the truth is It is well past a time for a new adventure -someplace warm.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.

You write really well! I felt I was there looking over your shoulder as you started your day...

+ I agree about your writing or at least visualization skills. You had me thinking I was into my first page or two of a new book.

You've also kinda made me think I need to get back to my writing passion, which I thought I'd pursue after ER, but just haven't done it yet. No good excuses but travel and laziness.

 

[rayinpenn]

I have had S/T disability twice. Once for a umbilical hernia and once for surgery on my leg. Both times, I felt good enough the next day to come back, but I took nearly the full two weeks for either incident.



Do not feel bad. The CEO doesn't feel bad when they take a $10M bonus (and a 100% raise) and get the employees a 2% raise. Or the CEO uses the company profits to boost the stock price with a buyback, when they know that they are one of the major stock holders, and have a bunch of stock options.



If you did not get paid, you would likely leave. So if you are getting paid to be gone with S/T disability, take advantage of it.

I agree with your thinking fully but there is a problem. This simple old dog is set in his ways. Our hard work paid for the house, the cars and will fund our retirement. That which some would call a cliche the 'American Dream' worked for us - we worked hard and live a good life as a result. I'd rather not change my work mantra at the very end. I've worked for them for 32 years and have missed only a handful of days...it is just hard to turn off the discipline.

Just because the Robber Baron in charge of the company treats his employees as commodities doesn't mean I should change the person I am.


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[steelyman]

This is a very interesting thread with several well-written posts.

I don't have much to add except that while reading through it I was reminded of a line from one of my favorite TV series while in college, Moonlighting.

It was a Christmas-oriented episode and the line was from Bruce Willis' character, David Addison, speaking to Cybill Shepherd's Maddie Hayes: "A good job doesn't love you back".

 

[SJ1_]

My target date is July and I have not said a word; i will be 62. I am scheduled for TKR surgery later in the month and I heard the boss say Ray will be out until the new year "hopefully he comes back". She is a nice person.



I feel a bit guilty as I called HR and they said your eligible for 25 weeks s/t disability... It is kinda sad after 32 years I don't feel in any rush to come back to work. Gone are the days when I'd would have used a walker to get to my desk....why you say?



I remember it like it was yesterday I was in my thirties - Bob my colleague 53 was a competent guy with 35 years with the company. The firm had a early retirement package/promised RIF (reduction in force) Bob was told if you don't take a package you may not have a job.. He lost about 22% (as I remember) of his pension because he wasn't old enough even with the buyout. At his retirement dinner his wife told me he only missed 1 day in all those years ... Bob had been an accident and hurt his leg - "he just couldn't lift his leg high enough to get on the bus."



My buddy Kenny was also let go a few years ago 37 years on the job. His Tears welled up as he walked out. I felt terrible about it too. Then just A couple days a ago a colleague with 41 years was also shown the door. The firm is highly profitable ...Words fail me.



Like it or not each paycheck starts the relationship anew. I owe them nothing and they owe me nothing... In doing so They've lost something but they simply don't care. I'm glad I'll be out of the game.



Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.

Good post - Sadly this is happening every day the only difference are companies names. I saw this happen to my Uncle when I just started out
and I had pride in my work but I never came close to being "a company man".

 

[brett]

Athena...I have no idea if they look at the number of dependents or not. I only know that this is happening-at least it was a few years ago. A senior manager I know had downsized his large group numerous times. Always the same...go down by X number of headcount. Last time I spoke with him he was told to downsize again, but he was given a number specific individuals to include in the downsize. He was puzzled but a contact he had in the HR consultancy business gave him a heads up as to how this probably occurred and why.
This is not first hand so I cannot comment on the accuracy.

It could become a mute point. An HR friend told me that several large megacorps are going in the direction of placing a cap on the total lifetime health coverage for an employee or employee dependent. Very concerning for some folks.


I do not live/work in the US so I do not know the laws. I do know that the megacorp I worked for once asked us to collect certain information on our employee population. This was in violation of our laws.....some in megacorp HQ could not understand this. Needless to say the data was not collected. They then tried a voluntary method but that was of course a complete flop.

 

[Tree-dweller]

In my old company "I'm giving you a one months' notice" was met with: " One month? I think one hour should be all you need to clean out your desk".



Our approach/thinking was having "dead men walking" created problems and often made martyrs out of those leaving. Better to just go when the time is right.

Man, I feel lucky that wasn't my experience! Shoot, I gave 9 months notice when I hung it up, because I wanted to give them plenty of time to find and train my replacement. They found and (I) trained my replacement less than a month before I left, proving just how indispensable I was!
But I also witnessed others experiencing the dark side of corporate consolidation, being taken completely by surprise when discovering that getting called into the boss's office was followed by being escorted out of the office - and building - by security. I cannot imagine how that feels.