Low NW FIRE

[Koolau]

Back almost 20 years ago when I first started thinking about ER, I found this book: https://www.amazon.com/Get-Life-Dont.../dp/1413300847

Admittedly 20 years is a big difference, even though inflation has been relatively tame in the time period. Still, I got a lot out of the reading - realizing that I COULD retire early if I were willing to lower my expectations - especially concerning our current high COL choice of place to live. As it turned out, I was able to tough it out (even enjoying a solid 8 years of my w*rk - until I didn't). Now retired for 12 years, things are good, but I couldn't have made it to Paradise on less than a million.

As one of my back-up plans I have reasonably carefully investigated what it would cost to live in my old midwest stomping grounds. I feel certain i could do it with less than a million - especially if I throw in SS (leave out the modest pension I have).

Of course, since I haven't done it myself - only planned it in my mind - YMMV.

[Teacher Terry]

We each have a 20k pension and I work p.t. for 22k/year. So that is 62k without using our savings. Tiny mortgage of 650/month. We spend 10k/year traveling and go out so could cut back if needed.

[street]

People don't need a high NW to retire. Like most here have said it all comes down to your expenses. I know many people that aren't even close to 1M and are retired.

[FANOFJESUS]

My aunt retired on like 100k. Her SS covers 90% of what she needs so she has plenty of money.

[brucethebroker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floridatennisplayer When you say NW, are you including your home value minus it’s debt if any? I never understood people throwing in their home values to this. You can’t spend your home value.

I used the term invest able NW, which I meant to not include home, vehicles, or personal property.

Yeah, hard to spend the home value without selling or borrowing against.

[brucethebroker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by street People don't need a high NW to retire. Like most here have said it all comes down to your expenses. I know many people that aren't even close to 1M and are retired.

Do you know anything about their stories? Could be interesting...

[brucethebroker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry We each have a 20k pension and I work p.t. for 22k/year. So that is 62k without using our savings. Tiny mortgage of 650/month. We spend 10k/year traveling and go out so could cut back if needed.

How do you compare on the NW scale, if you don't mind...

[alaska55]

Retired 2014 at 59 and single with about $425k split 60/40 TIRA and taxable brokerage accounts no pension til 65 and its small. At 60 I inherited a period certain annuity of $550 a month that ends in 2021. I get my first SS check in about 2 weeks. My essential expenses are less than $1500 a month. The catch is I live in the Philippines. When I left the Philippines at 16 I sorta thought I would be back. I spent all of my first 16 year living in a territory(Alaska) or Japan and the Philippines. My annual budget is about 36K a year and I have everything I had in cold ass Nebraska and more. I fly back once a year to visit my boys in Portland Or. Oh by the way my account adds up to 470K now. According to firecalcu and I-orp I can spend 45K with 100% success rate.

Domo Arigato

[UnrealizedPotential]

I retired in 2016. I had enough of the working environment. Thought I would be able to do it another 5 years. Woke up one day and decided I would sell my condo and relocate. Which I did.

I never went back to work. Thought about it, but I am doing fine. My expenses are about 1k month,sometimes a little more, sometimes less. My investable assets is not 500k yet. Cheap expenses opens up possibilities. I am slowly ramping up my stock allocation. It was 26% in 2016, now it is over 30.6%.

I am adding money every month to my portfolio, and will eventually reach 35% stocks. By that time I should have over 500k by then. So if someone is willing to relocate and have between 400k to 500k, they can do the same.
Edited to add:Health insurance will continue to add to my monthly expenses, but I will save up to 6 months premiums and stay ahead of it so it won't have a big impact.That's the plan. I get a subsidy so that helps me.

[dvalley]

We should start a <$1M club here so it's easy to find inspiration from folks here who are living proof it can be done. I'd love to read their blog-style posts and see how they're doing.

[Teacher Terry]

BB: we have 200k equity in our home and 100k savings. No other debt besides tiny mortgage. We bought 2 cars before retiring and completely fixed up our house and replacing expensive items. We have many days neither car leaves the driveway so when 1 dies we will be fine with 1 car. Dh picks up consulting work occasionally. We have had 3 friends die in 50's & 60's so we are traveling now while we can.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucethebroker Do you know anything about their stories? Could be interesting...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvalley We should start a <$1M club here so it's easy to find inspiration from folks here who are living proof it can be done. I'd love to read their blog-style posts and see how they're doing.

I am happily retired on a pension that pays (net) less than $3k per month and live quite well with no money concerns at all. My total savings/investments would barely cover 3-4 years of expenses.

It's not that hard at all and I don't feel deprived in the slightest. What makes it work is that my house is paid off, I have solid DIY skills, friends/family in virtually every trade, and my hobbies are inexpensive.

[Blue Collar Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvalley We should start a <$1M club here so it's easy to find inspiration from folks here who are living proof it can be done. I'd love to read their blog-style posts and see how they're doing.

I agree, I think many live in the world of illusion. I yell when I see posts "you need 500 Thousand for medical care or you cant retire", or "I have 5 million I think I need to work 12 more years!" . Its crazy in here sometimes. I just found this article from 2 days ago, 80 % of retires have less than 700k That includes their house. 50 % have less than 100k , https://dqydj.com/the-net-worth-of-a...-america-2013/

Or my travel budget is $47,272 a year, but If i tighten my belt I could go down to $44,000. really?! Most people are cool with a trip to Las Vegas, see a show and talk about it for the next 20 years. They dont break out the videos on their trip to the Pyramids in 2015, the Antarctic Glaciers in 2016 trip etc. I could go on a rant but I think most get my point,

[dvalley]

Right, a forum sub-section for <$1MM NW retired folks without pension or inheritance is what I meant. I have several similar threads bookmarked so I know there are several here who are living the good life on <$1MM but they don't post much likely because all the belt-suspender types tell them how they're doomed etc. So legitimizing their way of life by creating a sub-section here would generate a lot more interest from those of us who can't really relate to the $1.5M+ folks.

[brucethebroker]

It's a little complicated to sort out. Some say "it's the expenses, stupid" others say "it's the cash flow, stupid" still others discuss 3% vs 4%. Well, those who are not drawing down their savings don't need to consider withdrawal rates. If you have a pension, or SS check(s), or a PT job, or rental properties, or an annuity, net worth may not apply to you as a rule of thumb. And, you are not going to fit into the traditional box that financial writers in particular want to put you in. When you want to retire, or decide you are FI, it really is about cash flow and expenses. Not necessarily about net worth, unless most of your cash flow comes from drawing down net worth, or living off the cash being thrown off (dividends?).

[brucethebroker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvalley Right, a forum sub-section for <$1MM NW retired folks without pension or inheritance is what I meant. I have several similar threads bookmarked so I know there are several here who are living the good life on <$1MM but they don't post much likely because all the belt-suspender types tell them how they're doomed etc. So legitimizing their way of life by creating a sub-section here would generate a lot more interest from those of us who can't really relate to the $1.5M+ folks.

And I like your idea, BTW.

[brucethebroker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry BB: we have 200k equity in our home and 100k savings. No other debt besides tiny mortgage. We bought 2 cars before retiring and completely fixed up our house and replacing expensive items. We have many days neither car leaves the driveway so when 1 dies we will be fine with 1 car. Dh picks up consulting work occasionally. We have had 3 friends die in 50's & 60's so we are traveling now while we can.

Well done.

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by street People don't need a high NW to retire. Like most here have said it all comes down to your expenses. I know many people that aren't even close to 1M and are retired.

+1
And I know a few with 8 figures who couldn't afford to retire if their lives depended on it! It's all about expenses...

[Major Tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvalley Right, a forum sub-section for <$1MM NW retired folks without pension or inheritance is what I meant. I have several similar threads bookmarked so I know there are several here who are living the good life on <$1MM but they don't post much likely because all the belt-suspender types tell them how they're doomed etc. So legitimizing their way of life by creating a sub-section here would generate a lot more interest from those of us who can't really relate to the $1.5M+ folks.

I have awful habits of playing devil's advocate, and of not wanting to join any club that would have me, so bear these in mind when reading this post. I speak for myself only, of course, but although I retired with substantially less than $1M, don't feel out of place among the folk with higher NW's here. For me, knowing whether I could ER consisted of coming to terms with the following -

1) Knowing what my average monthly "bare minimum" expenses were, and how much padding I'd like for emergencies and that most essential of necessities - fun, and

2) Figuring out my tolerance for portfolio volatility and then calculating whether I had somewhere in the region of 25 - 50 times my annual expenses saved up, the actual multiplier depending on my tolerance for volatility - and accounting for future SS in that equation too.

Once I had come to terms with the above two points, I felt as if I was part of the "club" on this forum, regardless of the income levels, in dollar amounts, of the other members. Once you've spent some time here, you realize that quite a few folk are doing it on less than $1M. Nevertheless, I can see how some members might benefit from an arrangement that would make it easier for them to see posts from, and interact with, other members of the <$1M club.

[Blue Collar Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom 2) Figuring out my tolerance for portfolio volatility and then calculating whether I had somewhere in the region of 25 - 50 times my annual expenses saved up, the actual multiplier depending on my tolerance for volatility - and accounting for future SS in that equation too. .

I would say anyone with 25-50 times annual expenses saved up is in an exclusive club.