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Old 02-20-2017, 07:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ER Eddie View Post
Just curious, does that account for the fees?

I ask because when fees are not subtracted, my Fidelity account (FA-managed) is slightly outperforming my Vanguard account (self-managed, mostly index funds). However, when the 1% Fidelity/FA fee is subtracted, the Vanguard account comes out on top.
Well that wouldn't include FA fees, but it does include mutual fund fees. Mutual fund performance stats are always after fees (expense ratios).
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:20 PM   #22
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Well that wouldn't include FA fees, but it does include mutual fund fees. Mutual fund performance stats are always after fees (expense ratios).
Ok, thanks.
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Old 02-21-2017, 09:14 PM   #23
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It's (Fidelity Low Price) an interesting example--I put DW's IRA rollover in it in '96 which I just left untouched with reinvestment of dividends and capital gains, and it is one of my core funds, so I have the data in Quicken.

The last 5 years it slightly underperformed the S&P (11.4 to 11.74).
From 2007-2012 it outperformed the S&P (.42 to -1.32)
From 2002-2007, it seriously outperformed (15.15 to 5.52)
From 1997-2002, it also outperformed significantly (13.95 to 8.65)

So, I made a lot of money--for now--on Low Price. I did not buy it as an S&P proxy however, but as a growth for reasonable price midprice/large blend fund.
My sense over the last 7 years is that it is a victim of its own success; the size of the fund has grown so much that I think it is very difficult for Tillinghast the manager (who I think is very gifted) to outperform, particularly in a rising market. A market slump/crash however will be interesting to see what happens, although I'm not that interested to test that. Danoff at Contrafund has had a similar tailing off over the last 7 years along with the now gargantuan size of the fund.

Buying LowPrice now versus 20 years ago are very different propositions.
I used data from DW's rollover not my 403b, since the later was buying monthly and hers was a rollover that just sat there untouched. Her original investment is up almost 900%, by the way, but not quite there. (knock on wood.)



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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I looked at the Fidelity Low Priced Stock fund he uses as an example in that article. For the most recent 5 years, it has tracked SPY in total return almost exactly. Not sure you can trade on this advice w/o a time machine.

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Old 02-22-2017, 09:05 AM   #24
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This subject of market timing comes up every so often. People fail to recognize that MF managers' actions are driven by the masses. And so, how can a MF manager act against the masses, who are their clients.

I like to compare this to politics. Politicians are no saint, but we keep forgetting who votes them into office. Where does the root cause lie?
Frequently, it is the system which is the root cause. Unfortunately, those are often very hard to design, and harder still to change. Especially when humans are involved.

Regarding MF managers though I do blame them. It's all too easy (but alas, less lucrative) to setup your own fund that is not exposed to the masses folly. So if you go along with it, either you are incompetent, or are willingly taking advantage of system flaws. Evil or stupid, tough choice
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:59 AM   #25
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Try to be a MF manager yourself and see how you can tell people during a market bubble: "yeah, I trail the market the last two years, then maybe this one too, but if you stick with me, you will be saved when the dot-coms implode".

You will get to manage only your own money, and perhaps that of your wife, if she loves you and you twist her arm.
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