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Old 07-25-2020, 07:54 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Sunset View Post
Remember the IRS only allows 1 per year if you have the money paid to you. (or something like that).
It will be a rollover.
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Medallion signature guarantee..
Old 07-25-2020, 08:14 AM   #42
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Medallion signature guarantee..

Quote:
Originally Posted by COcheesehead View Post
It will be a rollover.
If these are IRA funds, you can only do one rollover every 12 months. Sounds like it would be a trustee-trustee transfer. Terminology is confusing and not consistent.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:20 AM   #43
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If these are IRA funds, you can only do one rollover every 12 months. Sounds like it would be a trustee-trustee transfer. Terminology is confusing and not consistent.
It’s a Simple to a traditional. Is it still one per year?
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:14 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by COcheesehead View Post
It’s a Simple to a traditional. Is it still one per year?
See the rollover chart (about 6th link down from the top of paragraph)

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans...angements-iras

My quick look, makes it seem like it is limited to 1 per year.
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:34 AM   #45
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It’s a Simple to a traditional. Is it still one per year?


I think so. The easiest way to avoid the one per yr rule is to use trustee to trustee aka direct transfer. You do not take receipt of the funds or if they must send check to you have it made payable to the receiving institution “FOR BENEFIT OF COcheesehead”
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:07 PM   #46
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I think so. The easiest way to avoid the one per yr rule is to use trustee to trustee aka direct transfer. You do not take receipt of the funds or if they must send check to you have it made payable to the receiving institution “FOR BENEFIT OF COcheesehead”
Yep, it looks like trustee to trustee is exempt.

Thank you!
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Old 07-25-2020, 06:48 PM   #47
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My experience with Medallion Signature Guarantee was similarly difficult although different circumstances.

Last year, the trustee of my mother's estate was attempting to distribute the assets from 6 different financial institutions to the 4 beneficiaries. One institution (DWS) required him to initially re-register the account in the trustee's name along with a Medallion Signature Guarantee before he could redistribute the assets to the beneficiaries who also all had to have a Medallion Signature Guarantee to open their individual accounts to receive their inheritance. This institution's only office was located in Missouri while the trustee was on the West Coast. We contacted all the financial institutions we had accounts with and were refused by all banks (BofA, Wells Fargo, Chase) because the amounts were >$50K. We were also denied at Fidelity because the assets were not being transferred directly to Fidelity. Also declined at Vanguard and T.RowePrice.

So I called the DWS office and explained our difficulty. It was met with silence. Then I asked if other clients have had similar difficulties obtaining Medallion Signature Guarantees, and she said "yes." I asked what do they do in these circumstances? I guess I asked the magic question, because she explained that we could ask if the Medallion Signature Guarantee could be waived. She advised that the trustee write a letter to DWS and explain that at least 3 banks/investment firms were asked and refused to provide a Medallion Signature guarantee. He needed to list the full address of each bank, the person he spoke with, and their direct number. After DWS receives the letter, it will be sent for review, and a decision would be made. She estimated that the process could take 3-6 weeks. It took more like 8 weeks and several followup phone calls before the assets were distributed, but at least it didn't take a plane flight to Missouri to provide those darned Medallion Signature Guarantees.
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:19 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by COcheesehead View Post
Yep, it looks like trustee to trustee is exempt.

Thank you!
So, if I had a 401K and an IRA and wanted to roll them over to another financial institution I would be legal if the roll over transfer went directly to the new financial company?
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:26 PM   #49
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So, if I had a 401K and an IRA and wanted to roll them over to another financial institution I would be legal if the roll over transfer went directly to the new financial company?
It’s all in this link from Sunset.

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans...angements-iras
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:02 AM   #50
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I had done several rollovers from Jackson to VG. Vanguard changed and wanted the Medallion Signature Guarantee said Jackson required it. I got Jackson to send me a letter saying they didn't require it but Vanguard still would not do the transfer. After a month of the back and forth i transferred almost all my VG to FIDO. Been very happy with that decision.
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Old 07-26-2020, 04:54 PM   #51
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Do you have a Fidelity branch near you? They can do it.



But they probably will not unless you have an account... and probably a big account...
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:05 PM   #52
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OHHHHH,


Also, before you get this done thinking that your job is done... check to see what KIND of medallion guarantee they need....



Before I tell you about my experience.... I used to do medallion guarantees when I was a corp trust officer... there are strict rules because the guarantor is on the hook if there is fraud... my limit was a whopping $200 million as I dealt with corporations... so I knew a bit about the subject..


SOOO, I go into my local bank and get the medallion guarantee and send in all the paperwork... it was an estate like mentioned above... had to move into an estate account... a couple of weeks later get a letter stating that I had the WRONG type of medallion guarantee and needed one that met the rules of blah, blah blah... WTF! You have to be kidding... the largest bank in America's medallion guarantee is not good enough!!!


It seems there is a newer special one for brokerages that has 2 colors instead of 1... that is when I went to FIDO to get one but had problems with them... but some pleading and opening up a small account for me and my daughter got it done...
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:24 PM   #53
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But they probably will not unless you have an account... and probably a big account...
I have both, but the nearest office is 4 hours away.
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Old 07-27-2020, 05:13 AM   #54
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It seems there is a newer special one for brokerages that has 2 colors instead of 1... that is when I went to FIDO to get one but had problems with them... but some pleading and opening up a small account for me and my daughter got it done...
And the third type requires the secret handshake.
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Old 07-27-2020, 05:56 AM   #55
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So, if I had a 401K and an IRA and wanted to roll them over to another financial institution I would be legal if the roll over transfer went directly to the new financial company?


Going directly to the new financial institution is the preferred way to do it if you can. Usually it’s best to initiate the request at the new financial institution. They should be more anxious to get the funds than the sending finco is to give them up! I recall Vanguard a few years back refused to transfer IRA funds directly to my credit union for some reason so I had them make the check payable to the new financial institution but they mailed it to me. This is a bit off topic unless you are moving large sums that might require the MDS.
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Old 07-27-2020, 06:42 AM   #56
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Going directly to the new financial institution is the preferred way to do it if you can. Usually it’s best to initiate the request at the new financial institution. They should be more anxious to get the funds than the sending finco is to give them up! I recall Vanguard a few years back refused to transfer IRA funds directly to my credit union for some reason so I had them make the check payable to the new financial institution but they mailed it to me. This is a bit off topic unless you are moving large sums that might require the MDS.
You’d think this is the case, but I talked to Fidelity and they said I have to initiate it at American Funds.
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:18 PM   #57
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You’d think this is the case, but I talked to Fidelity and they said I have to initiate it at American Funds.


Is it a 401k or IRA at American? I routinely have funds transferred from my Fido 401k and IRA by having them issue a check made payable to my credit union with the FBO designation. That seems to work better than any other procedure since I know which party if any is holding things up. The credit union whines but they always accept the check and tag it as a transfer and not a rollover.
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Old 07-27-2020, 06:42 PM   #58
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Is it a 401k or IRA at American? I routinely have funds transferred from my Fido 401k and IRA by having them issue a check made payable to my credit union with the FBO designation. That seems to work better than any other procedure since I know which party if any is holding things up. The credit union whines but they always accept the check and tag it as a transfer and not a rollover.
The FBO designation satisfies the trustee to trustee part, but American, based on the size of the rollover, $500,000+, is requiring the medallion guarantee and my local sources cap out at $250,000.
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:27 PM   #59
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You’d think this is the case, but I talked to Fidelity and they said I have to initiate it at American Funds.
That doesn't sound right. However, if you are converting the designation at the same time, that might be the rub. For example, I haven't been able to do a conversion from Trad at one institution, to Roth at another, they must be in-kind. So if I have a Trad-IRA at place A, I need a Trad-IRA at place B. I can ask Place B to pull $X from Place A (never had a problem with that), and once transacted, I do the conversion from that Trad_IRA at place B, to a Roth at place B.

Fidelity B&M was very helpful when I needed to transfer my FIL's stock certificates (some in paper, some held at a transfer agent) from his SSN to EIN after his passing. They were able to handle the medallion signing w/o much problem as we were there in person.

-ERD50
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:53 PM   #60
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Going directly to the new financial institution is the preferred way to do it if you can. Usually it’s best to initiate the request at the new financial institution. They should be more anxious to get the funds than the sending finco is to give them up! I recall Vanguard a few years back refused to transfer IRA funds directly to my credit union for some reason so I had them make the check payable to the new financial institution but they mailed it to me. This is a bit off topic unless you are moving large sums that might require the MDS.
^ thank you for that information. I have an IRA and a 401K in different Financial Company's now and want to get both rolled over to one place. I was just about to get it done in February when things started to get ugly. I halted all transfers/rollover immediately. Both were going to make the checks out to the new company and send them to there main office then I had orders where it would be invested once they got the check. One of those needed a medallion sig. At some pint I will start all over and get that all in one new spot.
If both were done in the same year and both went to the new company, not to me, I should be fine going both in one year. Any way that is how I read that IRS guide lines.
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