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Old 04-21-2021, 10:41 AM   #21
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My company's cash balance pension plan was frozen about 20 years ago, replaced by an increased 401k match. There's about $65k sitting in the pension getting a tiny rate of return, but I can't touch it or roll it over until I leave the company.
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Old 04-22-2021, 07:48 AM   #22
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My former long-term employer never had a pension plan.
But they did have an exceptional "match" to our mandatory 403(b) contribution, the "match" being double the amount taken from my paycheck.

So I think younger folks will be wise to assess the company's "retirement plan" contributions as part of total compensation.

Additionally, low-cost lifetime annuities from places like TIAA make it possible for retirees in good health to "pensionize" a portion of their tax-deferred accumulation for lifetime income...
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Old 04-22-2021, 08:14 AM   #23
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A former employer (that I left in 2000) had a defined contribution pension plan that as I understand it ceased to be continued shortly after I had left. I don't have access to these funds (currently ~$85k until I turn 65). Each year I get a statement, and it states the coming years interest rate on the balance which has never been below 4%, usually 4.2+/-

I used to think it was terrible, now I wish I knew what they had the funds in to get that return!

As others have said, everything since then is 401k related retirement
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Old 04-22-2021, 08:15 AM   #24
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Who is eligible for an annuity from TIAA? Is it restricted to teaching professionals? We need to convince people without pensions or 401ks to save 10-15 % anyway. IRA limits are ridiculously low but saving in an after tax account is fine.
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:07 PM   #25
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Just because a company has a DB pension today does not mean that it will be there in 10 years. Same for DC matching contributions. The employer could be matching a 5, 7, etc. today but pull back to 3 OR in the case of some have a variable DC match based on profitability.

Besides, most people starting work today will have 5-7 employers over the course of their working life.
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:08 PM   #26
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Just because a company has a DB pension today does not mean that it will be there in 10 years. Same for DC matching contributions. The employer could be matching a 5, 7, etc. today but pull back to 3 OR in the case of some have a variable DC match based on profitability. The exception to this would be civil service/public sector employers.

Besides, most people starting work today will have 5-7 employers over the course of their working life.

Today is not guarantee of tomorrow.
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Old 04-22-2021, 02:18 PM   #27
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I think a lot of posters are missing that there are a lot of large companies and even small ones that offer a 'pension'.. it is a defined contribution plan but still a pension none the less...


Also, look at the 401(k) plan... some have really good matching so you do not need to worry about a pension plan...
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You can check pension here
Old 04-22-2021, 02:32 PM   #28
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You can check pension here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safire View Post
Any megacorps that offer pension? Any FAANG companies that do? Asking for a very young friend. Thanks!
Anyone can check on line to see if a specific company has a pension at this site: https://freeerisa.benefitspro.com/

This site republishes the DOL/PBGC Form 5500 annual required disclosures.
Caveats
1. Many companies listed on Free_erisa have frozen pension plans that new hires cannot access
2. Many plans are cash-balance plans that offer far lower benefits than traditional fixed annuity plans
3. The number of corporate pensions has fallen from over 100,000 in the early 80s to about 23,000 now (PBGC annual report, supplemental tables).
4. The number of corporate plans with 250+ members was only 4668 in 2019
5. Why? ERISA regulation + increased life expectancy + changed employer attitutudes towards employees.

https://www.pbgc.gov/prac/data-books
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File Type: jpg 2 Plans.JPG (118.0 KB, 47 views)
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Old 04-22-2021, 02:38 PM   #29
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It would be rare to find a private company that has defined benefit plan these days. I know from my past megacorps that they have all eliminated the DB plans and now have defined contribution plans only for new employees. As to the older employees who were on the DB plans, they were either frozen and switched to DC for the subsequent years; or in less common cases the grandfathered DB plan was continued for the older employees.


I think the best current place where there is any real DB type plans is in local/state/gov't type jobs, and not for all of those jobs. Cities, states, and the Fed are figuring out that they do not want the continuing liability. Since DB plans also include medical as part of the plans fairly typical, that is another area where the continuing financial liability is being felt.
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Old 04-23-2021, 01:24 AM   #30
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You googled too quickly. Look at the Yahoo link someone else provided about the 14 companies (as of 2019) who still had them, not the IBD link about the companies that still have a pension liability. IBM, for example, still has a pension on the books for those grandfathered in, but doesn't offer one to new hires.
The Yahoo link you refer to did not mention IBM. If I remember correctly, IBM grandfathered in employees pensions in 1999. Then in 2004, it lost a lawsuit brought by employees from Burlington, VT who were screwed over by what IBM's obligation was. The lawsuit applied to all grandfathered in employees.
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Old 04-23-2021, 06:31 AM   #31
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In my area, I know teachers, state, Gov., and electric utility company still offer pensions to new employees.
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Old 04-23-2021, 06:46 AM   #32
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The Yahoo link you refer to did not mention IBM. If I remember correctly, IBM grandfathered in employees pensions in 1999. Then in 2004, it lost a lawsuit brought by employees from Burlington, VT who were screwed over by what IBM's obligation was. The lawsuit applied to all grandfathered in employees.
Yes, that was my point. Someone else had googled and claimed IBM and others still have pensions, apparently from just quickly scanning the google result snippets. Actually reading the links shows that IBM once had a pension, but as the Yahoo link says, no longer does.
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Old 04-23-2021, 07:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38Chevy454 View Post
I think the best current place where there is any real DB type plans is in local/state/gov't type jobs, and not for all of those jobs. Cities, states, and the Fed are figuring out that they do not want the continuing liability. Since DB plans also include medical as part of the plans fairly typical, that is another area where the continuing financial liability is being felt.
A generation ago, "everyone" got pensions and retiree medical benefits.

A generation from now, maybe "no one" will get them.

But the generation retiring now has an awkward divide. Corporate workers don't have these benefits (or had them frozen or cancelled during their careers). Meanwhile, the gov't and military workers generally act entitled, as if they "deserve" them (that surely is the vibe I get from those that I know).
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:57 PM   #34
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Meanwhile, the gov't and military workers generally act entitled, as if they "deserve" them (that surely is the vibe I get from those that I know).
Uh oh, ER.com third rail alert.
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Old 04-23-2021, 09:05 PM   #35
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Uh oh, ER.com third rail alert.
I don't know what that means. I do not mean to cause a kerfuffle, and the mods can delete it if they wish, but it is my observation and while I suppose I could re-word it to be more "gentle", I think it's pretty accurate. For example, every time I've tried to ask my public sector friends if they feel their pension is secure, because mine over the years in the private sector definitely were not, the discussion turns nasty and defensive. I know that others on this site have seen it happen too. I'm not asking for it to happen here, I'm merely pointing out that it does happen ... which is very relevant to this discussion.

And again, it is just a temporary phenomenon. By the next generation, things will be "equal" again with no one having nothing.
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Old 04-23-2021, 10:44 PM   #36
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Discussion of federal pensions isn't against any rules, but in my experience, any suggestion that government and particularly military pensions are anything less than sacrosanct will bring a swift chorus of denunciation around here.
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Old 04-23-2021, 10:54 PM   #37
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I'd be shocked if any young person starting today actually collects a defined benefit pension upon their retirement 40 years from now. I'll be dead by then, of course. A quick Google search brought up some short lists of companies. Mainly no surprises - IBM, Southern Company, Boeing, 3M and the like.

Dear Old Dad retired from one of the Class A railroads in the 80's and got a pension but no COLA. Mom never worked but she got her own spousal pension from the railroad. it was such fun seeing Mom with her own money which Dad could have no say over how it was spent.

Ah, those must have been the days!
+1. Although there are a few, I’d also be shocked if a 20- or 30-something today could expect it to survive until they retire. If you want a pension, work in the public sector, then maybe better odds...
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Old 04-23-2021, 11:14 PM   #38
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Back when I was young and job seeking one thing I was told was NEVER inquire about the pension plan during the interview.
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Old 04-25-2021, 08:35 AM   #39
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My company ended new contributions to the defined benefit plan in mid 2000s. They previously contributed 4% and replaced it with a 3% additional contribution to the 401K plan. So this was spun as a way to grow the 401K and I guess it it was good if invested correctly. Basically they saved 1% contribution and shifted risk to the employee.
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Old 04-25-2021, 03:59 PM   #40
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IMO even if you get hired by a MegaCorp that has a DB pension now, there is no guarantee it will stay. My advice would be to work for a company that is "up and coming" rather than in an industry that is declining...then they will have to keep competitive benefits to keep employees.
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