Mgmt gig?

[kgtest]

Torn, current megacorp has a clear lack of upward mobility...seemingly some lateralmobility though. Already passed up for a manager role before flattening out and getting rid of that same role here 2 years later.

Was invited by a new megacorp to a panel interview after a seemingly decent phone screen.

Details are 2 offshore teams of engineers with some scattered resources here 5min from home.

I am trying to compare apples to apples but I think I need to be a little more abstract. I am now and have been a Sr Engineer for a while ~5years, and this is obviously one vertical move.

My initial thought is try to get a sense of what type of responsibilities and fires i would be fighting. Most my peers that are in IT management say they regret moving away from the trenches for various reasons (hate people now, miss the challenging problem solving).

I am worried because I really enjoy the hands on problem solving, and fear I will just be managing resources which isn't too exciting.

Either way interview is Fri and I will at least show up for the experience of interviewing for that next rung.

Some concerns or fringe benefits I worry about giving up are $7k of unvested stock, a small $5k a year pension (Seemingly decently funded) and likely the loss of working remote when I want (I have ALWAYS had this perk in the past 11 years working in IT and am pretty nervous about losing that flexibility if I jump to management).

On top of it I am due for an extra 5 days off annualy here if I stick around another year...I'll be fully vested with that tiny pension I mentioned with no clear upwards mobility... if I leave and I do get the mgmt gig, it amounts to about a 13.5% base pay raise (all of which now gets taxed at 22% rate).

This is a toughie. Any wisdom?

[Koolau]

I've never been in such a situation, so discount any suggestions I might offer.

I think you've covered the "downside" of such a move, but what's the upside? I don't see that in your post. Is there a lot more money involved? If so, do you really need it vs the potential downside? Are you "safe" where you are? Are you at risk if you take a mgmt. position?

Only you can decide, but my life-long inertia rarely did me wrong. BUT, YMMV.

[RunningBum]

I avoided management because I didn't want to have to deal with problem people, and potentially having to fire anyone. Some people have no problem doing this and probably like having more control, but I'd lose sleep when my manager asked me for input (as tech lead) on problem workers, so I knew it'd be worse if I was on the manager side.

I also liked the problem solving in tech and doing that over sitting in meetings, plus the flexibility like working remote. I could've given that up for more salary and stock options and the change for upward mobility (potentially earlier ER) but the losing sleep part worried me.

I'd look at how much this would accelerate ER (assuming that's your end goal since you're here) and decide if it's worth it. It's a personal decision.

[DrRoy]

I would be wary of changing to management unless you are very sure of what it will be like and that you will enjoy it without missing your previous job.

[racy]

As a manager you'll have to:
* meet financial performance goals (probably including cutting costs)
* manage salaries within a budget limit
* rate subordinates' performance (putting on bell curve; not everyone can be 'excellent')
* spend (a lot of) time in meetings
* interview job candidates, hire, conduct performance reviews (and fire)
* create a team that works well together (i.e. manage personalities)
* establish strategies to meet department objectives & measure progress

Sound like fun? Is so, go for it! If not, there's nothing wrong with being a Sr. Engineer.

[CRLLS]

There is a world of difference in day to day jobs between Sr Eng and Manager. If you are a hands on guy, I don't think you will be happy as a manager. As a manager you will be holding meetings with your reports and in meetings with your bosses and other managers. You will be more responsible for carrying out the company goals whether you agree with them all or not. You will be stuck with employee issues which you will have little control over as HR is that dept. You will still have to deal with the issues.

I would say, go where your heart leads you. No j*b is worth it if you aren't happy doing it.

[CardsFan]

A few thoughts:
- I would be leery of moving from a worker bee into management with a new company. If it does not work out, you will be jettisoned rather quickly, with no option of returning to worker bee status.

- Sounds like most of your resources are off shore. Will you need to travel to meet them regularly? Do you WANT to travel to where they are located?

- My Former MegaCorp had design teams off shore (India). There was a LOT of turnover. As workers gained experience, they then jumped to a new company for a pay increase. Made for a lot of errors and delays.

[kgtest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum I avoided management because I didn't want to have to deal with problem people, and potentially having to fire anyone. Some people have no problem doing this and probably like having more control, but I'd lose sleep when my manager asked me for input (as tech lead) on problem workers, so I knew it'd be worse if I was on the manager side. I also liked the problem solving in tech and doing that over sitting in meetings, plus the flexibility like working remote. I could've given that up for more salary and stock options and the change for upward mobility (potentially earlier ER) but the losing sleep part worried me. I'd look at how much this would accelerate ER (assuming that's your end goal since you're here) and decide if it's worth it. It's a personal decision.

RB, I've always valued your opinion, I feel like I am younger version of you! This helps a lot. I feel basically 100% how you did. I do not want to fire people, I am very technical and that is what makes me tick and moving away from that will likely be a de-motivator, and of course...I am making fairly good money as Sr Engineer now and DW and I both agree, we can reach our current goals with our current trajectories not needing to change anything.

That remote work flexibility is key to my happiness, and stress levels. I've worked from the mountain side, the beach side, or just in my PJs on those days I did not want to see people. That likely won't be an option as I've noticed not many managers in IT get that flexibility.

I don't want to classify as greedy, but if it weren't for the money I doubt I would even be looking. It's tough for me to find Sr Engineer roles that pay more than I earn now... I know they are out there but even some of the recruiters (and a former mgr) mentioned I am at the higher end at this point in time.

[kgtest]

All of these responses are on point with what I am thibking as well. Hiring, firing, personal problems...none of that sounds as fun as implementing this or fixing that. Makes my choice even more clear.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I agree with RunningBum and Racy. I detest writing reports and such; the only reason I manage anyone now is because I am a one-person department and I really needed someone to do the routine work so I can do more troubleshooting (tinkering/puzzle solving), development (same), and task management (pestering the programmers). I don't think I want more responsibility, even if it comes with more money. I recently added $1K a month to our projected retirement travel budget and $500/month for "entertainment" (probably eating out, but maybe theater), and we're still at 133 according to Fido. I would rather enjoy my last few years of w*rk than try to run up the score for no reason.

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgtest RB, I've always valued your opinion, I feel like I am younger version of you!

You could do worse. You could also do better! Good luck with your decision.

[Cichon_007]

As others said, if you don't like budgeting and constant meetings, then you should not do it for a 10% bump in take home.

I went from an individual contributor to a director for about 15% more pay + felt like the right thing to do for the title/career progression. I enjoyed my old role more. I despise hours of meetings, constant forecasting and the HR/performance duties. My saving grace is I still get to work on the individual stuff because harassing, err I mean leading, my team doesn't require a full time job. If that wasn't the case I'd be miserable.

[jollystomper]

It really depends your your personality and, as others have pointed out, if you find the management duties more "fun" or "interesting" or more "prestigious" than your technical skills, as those skills will likely fade.

I was a It techie at Megacorp who went into management because at the time there was not much career advancement for It techies. These were not my favorite careers years. While I handled the duties well and received good feedback and ratings from my subordinates, I ended hating dealing with all the management stuff outlined above. In addition, in this Megacorp I found the 1st line of management tended to bear the brunt of management issues. For a while I had a manager who hated to give folks bad news so would push it on us first lines to do it - and when people would complain on the news would act sympathetic to them and blame the 1st line of management for "not presenting the message well enough".

At the point when they wanted to expand my management scope to so many direct reports that I felt ALL my time would be spend on HR issues, Megacorp begin to recognize that perhaps it was a bad idea to force their good tech people to become managers for career advancement. They changed so that one could advanced to the executive level without becoming a manager, I switched back to a technical role, and it was the best thing that I did.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgtest All of these responses are on point with what I am thibking as well. Hiring, firing, personal problems...none of that sounds as fun as implementing this or fixing that. Makes my choice even more clear.

Even 5 minutes from home is extra commute time and there will be some commuting costs unless you meant 5 minutes on foot. Add in work acceptable clothing, more regular hair-cuts and a loss of a weeks vacation, and I think you need more like 25% to even consider it.

[fh2000]

If OP is relatively young, it may not be a bad idea to try out management. If you are good in communication, you may rise all the way up. But if you are close to retirement age, I would think twice about it.

I went into management track before 50 and tried my best to maintain technical. I was able to switch back to individual contributor in technical track later in my career with comparable compensation as a manager, less the headache.

[kgtest]

I am relatively young, 38. Budgeting and HR performance reviews actually doesn't sound too interesting. I am sort of shocked I passed the phone screen and landed the panal interview. Apparently there is no other candidate, or perhaps just a single other candidate which could be a red flag (I was told by the director I was literally the first person to interview).

The commute would be about 6miles shorter than my current commute...but I would be sacrificing that remote work flexibility.

It's becoming more and more clear that this might not be for me, but I'm going to go to the panel interview to better understand for sure. There is always the possibility I bomb the panel, or simply realize that it's definitely not worth the extra stress/different stress.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I could not give up regular, weekly telework. It reduces my stress so much. I schedule exterminator and repair and other visits for those days, I can get laundry done without interrupting my work any more than my normal chatting or walking around the office. And it was invaluable when I was caring for a sick parent in another state. There were times I was with that parent all week and still got 40 hours of work done, including conference calls during their surgery. (Hey, it beats waiting and worrying, honestly. It kept my mind off of things, which was a huge help.) I consider teleworking a huge perk.

But you should definitely check it out. It's possible that as a manager you might need to be in the office 5 days a week for the first few months, until you really cement your working relationship with your direct reports, and after that, depending on them, you might be able to telework again. I have one direct report who is really responsible, could probably be at my level or higher if we had an opening, so I don't worry about face time or butts in seats.

[kgtest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger I could not give up regular, weekly telework. It reduces my stress so much. I schedule exterminator and repair and other visits for those days, I can get laundry done without interrupting my work any more than my normal chatting or walking around the office. And it was invaluable when I was caring for a sick parent in another state. There were times I was with that parent all week and still got 40 hours of work done, including conference calls during their surgery. (Hey, it beats waiting and worrying, honestly. It kept my mind off of things, which was a huge help.) I consider teleworking a huge perk. But you should definitely check it out. It's possible that as a manager you might need to be in the office 5 days a week for the first few months, until you really cement your working relationship with your direct reports, and after that, depending on them, you might be able to telework again. I have one direct report who is really responsible, could probably be at my level or higher if we had an opening, so I don't worry about face time or butts in seats.

That remote work flexibility is such an incredible privilege. Ive had it my entire IT career and definitely have taken advantage. With 2 small kids its been invaluable. I also feel like as my parents age that flexibility will be a huge stress relief.

I need to feel out the leadership it might be possible that remote work is ok...especially since some of the employees I will lead/manage are in different countries. I need to ask if going to Europe and India are part of the job description...if it is, no way I will accept. I always hear business travel is the lest fun travel of all.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgtest That remote work flexibility is such an incredible privilege. Ive had it my entire IT career and definitely have taken advantage. With 2 small kids its been invaluable. I also feel like as my parents age that flexibility will be a huge stress relief. I need to feel out the leadership it might be possible that remote work is ok...especially since some of the employees I will lead/manage are in different countries. I need to ask if going to Europe and India are part of the job description...if it is, no way I will accept. I always hear business travel is the lest fun travel of all.

I actually loved business travel...before kids, I used to travel 3-4 times a year. After becoming a parent, I cut it down to 1-2, sometimes none. It's still fun now, since it's so rare, and I have plenty of time to plan for it. And I've been begging for and getting trips where I have friends I'd like to see and places on my bucket list. But none of mine was ever international! They were usually domestic trips, and usually no more than 4-5 days, something that's pretty much impossible if your travel time each way is more than 24 hours!

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgtest It's becoming more and more clear that this might not be for me, but I'm going to go to the panel interview to better understand for sure. There is always the possibility I bomb the panel, or simply realize that it's definitely not worth the extra stress/different stress.

Certainly good to experience to interview, and don't forget, you can interview them too!