Midyear Results 2008

[unclemick]

-8.35% by big dog Target 2015 (85% of portfolio). -4.5% when 15% Norwegian widow VG broker stocks added in. Apparently the utes and/or others have helped my doggy financials like BAC, C, and JP Morgan. Too lazy to to add in my sole remaining(have yet to kill) file cabinet of DRIPs - although I think UNP, NUE, etc would help my average.

As long as some of the individual stocks(like last year) don't go private/merge(like last year) and sock me with big unplanned CG taxes(like last year) and just quietly pay their dividends, I'll be happy.

Sometimes making money can be a pain in the butt - especially if you are retired and 'in your heart' a really cheap bastard.

heh heh heh -

 

[Rustward]

It is interesting to see these numbers and see how different people are doing over the first half of 08, but there are probably as many different ways of calculating them as there are posters in this thread.

. Is YTD (1-1-08 thru 6-30-08) the same thing as annualized?
. Including contributions made during the reporting period kindof polutes YTD return.

Anyway, we are somewhere between -3.6% and -5.6% in the first half of the year depending on how you look at it.

The YTD as of July 16 look a little worse by a couple of points.

 

[HpRyder]

I don't track YTD, just TD since I purchased and I don't count cash / interest accounts. So it not quite comparable to these time frames.
My retirement account: -3%
My wife’s retirement account: +11%
Our non-retirement account: + 61%

Several stock home runs and hard assets oriented purchases saved us so far.

 

[FUEGO]

I do keep track of my net worth growth on a monthly basis separately and fortunately that has been doing very well this year and over the long-term. To me, my net worth growth is the more important number.

Same here. Net worth is the more important number for me. My long term goal is to increase net worth. Portfolio contributions and growth are a key component, but value-based spending and debt reduction are also a key component.

I'm down 8.55% through 6/30/08. 100% stocks. But net worth went up during both quarters of this year so far.

 

[Nords]

Down 11% YTD and 26% off last autumn's all-time high...

 

[audreyh1]

YTD -6.25%. 50/50. good chunk of DVY and DODBX.

Yes it's been a miserable year for DODBX hasn't it (-14% YTD). In fact, this is far worse than anything it has seen in the past 10 years. 2002 was a cake walk for DODBX - down only -2.9%, and strongly positive the years before and after.

Value oriented funds have just been taken out and shot this time.

I suppose DVY has been creamed too. All them dividend stocks and financial stocks.

Audrey

 

[ziggy29]

. Is YTD (1-1-08 thru 6-30-08 ) the same thing as annualized?

They are different. To annualize -5% over six months for an entire year, you'd have to see what would happen if you lost at this rate all year:

Start with $1000 and you have $950 after six months. Now if you lost another 5% of the $950 in the next six months, you'd have $902.50. That's an annualized rate of -9.75%.

In this case, the annualized rate of return based on a six month value change, d, would be:

[ (1 + d)^2 ] - 1

With d being -7.68% (or -.0768 ) for my first half, my annualized return based on the first six months is:

(1 - .0768 )^2 - 1 = -0.1477 = -14.77%.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Maybe I should become a day trader..I would have probably done better

 

[aida2003]

They are different. To annualize -5% over six months for an entire year, you'd have to see what would happen if you lost at this rate all year:

Start with $1000 and you have $950 after six months. Now if you lost another 5% of the $950 in the next six months, you'd have $902.50. That's an annualized rate of -9.75%.

In this case, the annualized rate of return based on a six month value change, d, would be:

[ (1 + d)^2 ] - 1

With d being -7.68% (or -.0768 ) for my first half, my annualized return based on the first six months is:

(1 - .0768 )^2 - 1 = -0.1477 = -14.77%.

I'm curious how/where everyone calculates their return rates (total return, annualized returns). Do you have your ALL accounts on some website that tracks all money coming in/out and calculates your returns or do you do MANUALLY in Quicken/MSmoney or Excel and make your own formulas?

 

[ziggy29]

I'm curious how/where everyone calculates their return rates (total return, annualized returns). Do you have your ALL accounts on some website that tracks all money coming in/out and calculates your returns or do you do MANUALLY in Quicken/MSmoney or Excel and make your own formulas?

It's easy to do -- trivial, really -- in accounts where no new money is coming in. But in my 401K and our Roths, it is trickier and I use crude approximations rather than bother with the complex functions to calculate XIRR properly. It's not like I have to file an annual report with the SEC or anything, so "close enough" is fine for me.

 

[FIREd]

I'm curious how/where everyone calculates their return rates (total return, annualized returns). Do you have your ALL accounts on some website that tracks all money coming in/out and calculates your returns or do you do MANUALLY in Quicken/MSmoney or Excel and make your own formulas?

I let Quicken do the heavy work.

 

[audreyh1]

I'm curious how/where everyone calculates their return rates (total return, annualized returns). Do you have your ALL accounts on some website that tracks all money coming in/out and calculates your returns or do you do MANUALLY in Quicken/MSmoney or Excel and make your own formulas?

Quicken has an ROI function that will calculate return on investment from one date to another. This function cancels out additions or withdrawals to the investment during that time period, thus reporting accurate performance over a given time period. It's easy to apply this calculation to your total net worth or any part of your investments.

Audrey

 

[ladelfina]

-11.8% as of 6/30
YTD now -10.5%
about 70/15/15 now stocks/bonds/cash after some recent sales

 

[al_bundy]

Are you including the money you are putting in at the same time as well?

think so, check my Principal Financial 401k once in a while and it tells me my rate of return. all new money goes into a MM account and not a stock fund. ditto for my wife.

 

[megacorp-firee]

-6% from 1/1/08, a bit more (bigger loss) from portfolio high.
60/40 AA

 

[eridanus]

I made some purchases in early April, so a rough estimate for my 401k YTD is -7%.

 

[d]

To annualize ...

aren't the ytd returns sufficiently depressing?

 

[Hamlet]

I'm somewhere around -12% YTD

 

[BanDit1]

-6.32%

 

[HFWR]

[-]Ytd down ~ 8.5%[/-]...

-7.7%

 

[LOL!]

I'm curious how/where everyone calculates their return rates (total return, annualized returns). Do you have your ALL accounts on some website that tracks all money coming in/out and calculates your returns or do you do MANUALLY in Quicken/MSmoney or Excel and make your own formulas?

I use MSMoney, run a report with date "Current Year" from 1/1/2008 thru 12/31/2008 (if you choose a different date, you will get the wrong answer). I include ALL investable assets except checking account. That means all 401(k)s, all 403(b)s, all IRAs, all taxable accounts, all my accounts, all my spouse's accounts, all our 529 plans, all money market funds. I include ALL transactions in these accounts.

As previously written, one has to use Excel XIRR or MSMoney or perhaps Quicken, though the report to run in Quicken is trickier to get the right date (my experience running my mom's Quicken on her investments).

We don't cherry pick the best accounts (my 403(b) is only TIAA-real-estate and TIAA traditional both UP for the year).

We are down -8.2% so far this year.

 

[OldGuy]

Retirement assets -3.8% YTD.

 

[guest]

+1.8%......but remember I was the early chicken

 

[RonBoyd]

I'm curious how/where everyone calculates their return rates (total return, annualized returns). Do you have your ALL accounts on some website that tracks all money coming in/out and calculates your returns or do you do MANUALLY in Quicken/MSmoney or Excel and make your own formulas?

I, too, use the same method (MSMoney) that LOL! uses. In addition, I use https://www.cakefinancial.com. Their formula is:

"... a money weighted return method - as opposed to a simple return, as you calculate below. Money weighted return takes into account all cashflows in and out of your portfolio and the timing of the cash flow as well. This means that it accounts for how much time the money has spent in your portfolio and then calculates a rate of return. In this case, the time spent by dividend reinvestment and the time spent by the initial cashflow (initial purchase) are different, so the return will be different from what is calculated from a simple return method.

To be exact, we use Internal Rate of Return (IRR) to calculate these numbers. IRR is the only exact method to calculate money weighted returns. You can find more information about IRR here ( http://blog.cakefinancial.com/cake_financial/analytics_and_metrics/index.html )."

 

[unclemick]

Actually - now that I think about - I don't really know (down to the knat's eyebrow) -nor or do I really care.

I can check Target 2015 (85%) of portfolio which is close enough handgrenade wise - and can carry (with pension and SS) my retirement via yield alone.

Love full auto.

and my 15% individual stocks - gives me the opportunity to scream and yell, cuss and moan - or brag if things turn up.

Like sitting in the baloney with good popcorn - really bad bad guys(booo), great heros(yeah) and beautiful heroines() at the 'frugal' saturday matinee.