Money and happiness just how correlated are they...

[razztazz]

For example, I don't believe that owning a 'Benz is going to make me happier, but I really don't know because I've never owned one, or even ridden in one that I can remember, so maybe it's a case of I just don't know what I'm missing.

When I lived in Germany I drove many many Benzes, Porches, and Beemers. Assessment: Crap. I put all that talk about how great this or that car is in the same category as that thing about "masturbating will make you go blind" they used to tell teenagers.

The national sports of Germany are soccer and talking about why your car is in the shop this week.

I have a 2010 Focus that is in every way the same or better driving experience as those Beemers and Benzes were. Except when I step on the gas it takes me 1.1 seconds longer to get to the intersection. I could be soooo much happier

 

[SJ1_]

My 2003 Jetta Diesel just turned 300K Friday night. And it is easily good for a lot more.

191,000 for the 1998 Camry. runs great

 

[Bestwifeever]

I'm pretty happy regardless of money. My family did not have money, and I grew up hearing "they're rich, but they're not happy." Now of course I know sometimes "they" are, that what makes me happy isn't necessarily what makes someone else happy, and the amount of money may or may not make a difference. One thing for sure, I don't think other people's happiness is related to mine or that they should be more or less happy with something that makes me more or less happy.

The sweet spot of having enough money is different for everyone imo, but having more money than that doesn't decrease happiness--I don't believe any of the studies show a bell curve.

I know a few people who are in the one-percent club because of their own efforts and a few people who were born into it. Their apparent happiness is all over the map.

 

[Danmar]

9 years ago, I took a 75% pay cut to change jobs. I am much happier now (although I'm admittedly still beyond the threshold in Rich's article).

Right, but are you happier because you earn less or happier because something else changed, like the job itself or its envireonment?

 

[Gumby]

Right, but are you happier because you earn less or happier because something else changed, like the job itself or its envireonment?

Most definitely because the job itself is better, and I have more of a life outside the office. The money, even though it was a very large number, proved to be irrelevant to my happiness.

 

[jkern]

To me it is not how much money, (I have been FI for 6 years now) it is the efficiency of it's use. For instance, we have food at the house ready to cook for dinner, then at the last minute decide to go out. That is $50 wasted. Another example is not maximizing all opportunities like coupons, mortgage refi's and 401K (don't always max out.) I don't think it would make me happier to make more money. It would make me feel better about not squandering opportunities/resources. I am working toward maximizing where/when the dollars go. When I refi, use a coupon or max 401K contributions I do feel much better.

Being inefficient with money makes me unhappy too.

 

[Danmar]

Most definitely because the job itself is better, and I have more of a life outside the office. The money, even though it was a very large number, proved to be irrelevant to my happiness.

I guess retirees feel similar. My income in retirement is about 1/3 of what it was while working. But I am definately happier. I would even be happier ( I think perhaps only marginally)if my income in retirement was the same as when working.

 

[NW-Bound]

Geez, I thought we were keeping the mileage down on our 2008 Mazda 3 that has about 55,000.

The Nissan SUV has not been driven much ever since we bought the smaller CRV to tow behind the motorhome when we took up RV'ing. The smaller car is a lot more convenient as a daily driver to run errands. Even so, we put less than 7K miles on it a year, that is not counting the several K miles it was pulled behind the MH (the odometer does not advance when in neutral). When not traveling, we do not leave the home unless there is a need to.

My wife has been talking about getting rid of the SUV, but I do not want to. It is still spanking new, and will be ready to serve us when we use it more after the smaller car wears out. I try to remember to take it out on an errand once a month, and to put a bit of fresh gas in it. The rest of the time, it is inside the garage, put on a battery maintainer. Just had to replace all its tires recently due to dry rot!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

My wife has been talking about getting rid of the SUV, but I do not want to. It is still spanking new, and will be ready to serve us when we use it more after the smaller car wears out. I try to remember to take it out on an errand once a month, and to put a bit of fresh gas in it. The rest of the time, it is inside the garage, put on a battery maintainer. Just had to replace all its tires recently due to dry rot!

On occasion I think about getting rid of the Highlander, but then there is some project around the house that requires moving large items and I decide it's a terrible idea to get rid of it. It gets decent mileage and drives like a car but when I need it to, it will tow our trailer with 5,000 lbs of stuff in it with little effort.

I figure it will last us about as long as I will be able to do large projects around the house so I suppose we will keep it.

 

[Danmar]

Why do so many threads devolve into discussions about how many miles you have on your cars? Geez.

 

[NW-Bound]

Back on happiness, both of my younger and still working brothers got BMW SUVs. I looked at these with indifferent eyes. I think that if I were still working, I might be tempted to get one too. My theory is that when people work hard, they like to compensate themselves by splurging on something, so that they feel rewarded.

Man, on a day like this when it gets to 115F, just not having to fight the traffic to and from work is enough reward. Beats being stuck in traffic in any fancy car, ya know?

If I had a $10M net worth, I may get an X5 too, just for the hell of it. But I don't have that money, and so I drive my pedestrian cars. And I do not envy or crave any stinkin' car. The non-ownership of one does not decrease my happiness. Or to put it in a pessimistic view that I hold, if I am unhappy, it is not because I do not have such a car.

 

[eytonxav]

When I initially retired, I did so because it was getting too hard to look the other way when encountering unethical behavior and greed at work after a so called merger of equals. The hard work or time commitment was never that much of an issue for me. However, I was not prepared mentally for retirement and actually missed work. I went back as an individual contributor making close to half as much, but found myself much happier. Kept working for a number of years until the commuting and road construction in DFW area did me in, and then retired for good. Don't miss work or the money, so it worked out fine for me in the end.

 

[FUEGO]

I have a 2010 Focus that is in every way the same or better driving experience as those Beemers and Benzes were. Except when I step on the gas it takes me 1.1 seconds longer to get to the intersection. I could be soooo much happier

+1

I've ridden in plenty of luxury cars and never been that much more impressed than riding in a Civic or Accord. I don't like the feel of leather seats so I'm kind of stuck with lower trim level non-luxury cars or paying $$$$ to downgrade seats (or sucking it up and sitting on something that's less comfortable to me).

Of course I much prefer walking or taking the bus if I'm not carrying a load and it's nice outside. True luxury = the time to do that.

 

[FUEGO]

I truly think the key to keeping a car for many, many, years and especially for keeping them looking new is putting them in the GARAGE. Hmm. I wonder how many people who are FI at a younger age use the garage for car storage as opposed to the much-more Americanized use...storage of all the crap we will never use again...

Garages are a huge waste of money if all you're going to do is store your depreciating cars inside*.

In hindsight, I'm glad I ended up buying a house without one. Opportunity costs of the cash tied up in the initial garage purchase plus the extra costs to maintain, insure, plus the annual taxes more than offset any kind of slight increase in value of the cars garaged within. I say that as someone that just sold our two 16 year old Hondas for above KBB values even though they've been sitting in the sun exposed to the elements for 16 years.

* you could possibly persuade me that some really expensive cars and/or classics would hold value better if garaged, and it might offset the total ownership cost of a garage. But then we have to address whether buying those cars in the first place is "a huge waste of money".

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Garages are a huge waste of money if all you're going to do is store your depreciating cars inside*.

In hindsight, I'm glad I ended up buying a house without one. Opportunity costs of the cash tied up in the initial garage purchase plus the extra costs to maintain, insure, plus the annual taxes more than offset any kind of slight increase in value of the cars garaged within. I say that as someone that just sold our two 16 year old Hondas for above KBB values even though they've been sitting in the sun exposed to the elements for 16 years.

* you could possibly persuade me that some really expensive cars and/or classics would hold value better if garaged, and it might offset the total ownership cost of a garage. But then we have to address whether buying those cars in the first place is "a huge waste of money".

We shall agree to disagree then. For the neighborhood I wanted to live in, there wasn't much choice in NOT having a garage. Taxes are minimal (since it's not counted against living SF) and the cost to maintain (it's part of the basement if you will) is also fairly minimal. Plus, I realize savings on the insurance for them being garaged (they haven't reached the threshold of dropping comp/collision yet) and I don't have to worry about hail damage or people breaking into the cars. And there is an added bonus that they are already nice and cool in the summer and nice and warm in the winter! But...pOtato...pAtato...to each their own.

 

[aja8888]

Why do so many threads devolve into discussions about how many miles you have on your cars? Geez.

Well, if I had multiple houses or traveled to 50 different countries while flying first or business class on vacation, I suppose I could boast about those accomplishments. But, unfortunately, I don't, and having a 2003 Jetta with 300K on the odometer is a show of my accomplishment in frugality.

And, by the way, it is still in very respectable condition as I keep the maintenance up. But, it's not the *usual* frugal car as it has a turbocharged diesel engine, 5 speed manual transmission and larger fuel injector nozzles.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Back on happiness, both of my younger and still working brothers got BMW SUVs. I looked at these with indifferent eyes. I think that if I were still working, I might be tempted to get one too. My theory is that when people work hard, they like to compensate themselves by splurging on something, so that they feel rewarded.

And when you weren't working, you might very well be sitting at the BMW dealership sipping $6 Starbucks getting your car worked on. Here is a comparison of a popular BMW and the Infiniti G37 (Accord/Civic has similar numbers of the Infiniti) according to True Delta (actual reports from owners). This is number of repairs per 100 cars.

Edit: Also attached one for Highlander v. BMW X5

 

[FIREd]

Having enjoyed a wide range of incomes over the years (from poverty level to top 1%), I can say from experience that more money has always made me happier.

That being said, for us, there was definitely an inflection point where the utility of more income started to diminish greatly. Even when our income was high enough to remove virtually all constraints on spending, our spending settled naturally in the upper 5-figure range when we lived in the South and at the bottom of the six figure range when we lived in the Bay Area.

Also, happiness is the sum of many more factors than just money. While happiness might increase with more money, the stress of a high-paying job might affect happiness negatively by taking a toll on relationships, health, job satisfaction, etc... By retiring early, my wife and I have accepted a much lower income, which affects our happiness negatively, I have no doubt, but the lower stress level and greater freedom more than make up for it.

 

[eytonxav]

Garages are a huge waste of money if all you're going to do is store your depreciating cars inside*.

Perhaps this is a function of where you live. In Texas, due to hail storms and heat, I wouldn't be without a garage.

 

[travelover]

.................. it's not the *usual* frugal car as it has a turbocharged diesel engine, 5 speed manual transmission and larger fuel injector nozzles.

I thought I could best you until you hit me with the larger injector nozzles.

 

[aja8888]

I thought I could best you until you hit me with the larger injector nozzles.

I left out some detail (For those who don't understand), there is also a larger VNT turbo, 3 Bar MAP sensor, larger intercooler, upgraded clutch, and remap of the ECU fueling (aka "tune").

 

[travelover]

I left out some detail (For those who don't understand), there is also a larger VNT turbo, 3 Bar MAP sensor, larger intercooler, upgraded clutch, and remap of the ECU fueling (aka "tune").

Well sure, but do you have a pair of these?

 

[mh]

Why do so many threads devolve into discussions about how many miles you have on your cars? Geez.

+1

I think everyone has gotten the message that sticking with a trusty (usually Japanese) "old paint" Is the general consensus on this forum.

No need to provide additional anecdotal confirmations


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Having enjoyed a wide range of incomes over the years (from poverty level to top 1%), I can say from experience that more money has always made me happier.

That being said, for us, there was definitely an inflection point where the utility of more income started to diminish greatly. Even when our income was high enough to remove virtually all constraints on spending, our spending settled naturally in the upper 5-figure range when we lived in the South and at the bottom of the six figure range when we lived in the Bay Area.

Also, happiness is the sum of many more factors than just money. While happiness might increase with more money, the stress of a high-paying job might affect happiness negatively by taking a toll on relationships, health, job satisfaction, etc... By retiring early, my wife and I have accepted a much lower income, which affects our happiness negatively, I have no doubt, but the lower stress level and greater freedom more than make up for it.

Money can buy some things, especially peace of mind. But we were really bored where we used to live and all the money in the world would not have changed that, nor added forests, mountains, lakes and an ocean or changed the weather.

We also only spent up to a certain amount and then just saved the rest when we both had decent paying jobs. We'd work with people with similar household incomes as us who would buy super expensive homes, have exotic cars and fly to New York on two day weekends, and we'd be fine with driving Toyotas, camping, hiking, canoeing and money in the bank. We were just really happy to live some place where we could enjoy our outdoor activities. I remember having some really weird what did you do on the weekend discussions with some of them on Mondays.

 

[nash031]

And an article whereby in the U.S. "about $75,000" annual income is where you find your most happiness. Just passing it on:

Here Is The Income Level At Which Money Won't Make You Any Happier In Each State

Rich

Makes sense to me. Basically we live off of the "happiness requirement" in CA (+ a small amount, call it the SoCal tax I guess) and save the rest. Makes moving to Nashville sound appealing!