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Old 04-21-2017, 07:24 PM   #21
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I know people with plenty enough money who still worry excessively about money. If you have 5 times as much as you need, why should losing 20 or 30% cause any worry?
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:53 PM   #22
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Roger that.

Conversely, if you can build up some good habits, they also will be similarly hard to break. And that is an encouraging thought!
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Most Americans losing sleep over money
Old 04-22-2017, 06:01 AM   #23
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Most Americans losing sleep over money

No debt. Not a dime for more then 20 years. I sleep deeply. I'll never understand that "I want and need it now crowd." The toys seem to make them feel good but of course it doesn't last.

Funny I love to watch the people on Dave Ramsey's show who found 'Jesus' and discovered that my life didn't end when I sold my $60,000 F150 and the bass boat. Don't get me wrong I don't sit here and think I'm better then them.. I just enjoy another converts discovery.

Im not sure advise will ever make anyone change - they have to discover it for themselves. I do often cringe when I hear others talk about investment and money... I think yikes what are you doing.
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:14 AM   #24
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Seems to me most people end up in the hole by trying to keep up with the Joneses; and the Joneses are trying to keep up with you.

I'm beginning to wonder if, instead of teaching people money management, we should be teaching self-esteem (I hate that term!!) and how to be happy with what you have.

If you don't feel that you have to impress anybody, everything else falls into place.
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:35 AM   #25
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Seems to me most people end up in the hole by trying to keep up with the Joneses; and the Joneses are trying to keep up with you.
As I posted on another site, almost four years ago to the day:
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We have zero inclination to keep up with the Jones’………in fact they’d probably have to find a high vantage point and use binoculars just to see us…we’re that far behind……..we own a modest condo townhouse…….buy stuff on sale, on Kijiji, at Value Village, etc……but mainly, there’s not a whole lot that we want, and I think that, in and of itself, is a major factor in the recipe for a happy retirement.
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:21 AM   #26
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I'm sure I've posted this before in some other threads but again, I don't think I have lost any sleep because of money since I retired. It seems odd to me, but when I was in the accumulation mode (working), I worried much more about money than I do now. When I retired, I "mentally" set a minimum investable net worth limit. If (?) I ever reach that mark, I will move "towards" my idea of a personal austerity program. Until then, and as long as I have the desire and energy , I'll continue to spend much more on my discretionary "activities" than many here would consider reasonable. To be honest, as I get older, I'm more concerned about reaching my energy/physical limits, than my monetary limits.
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:32 AM   #27
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The result of a 25-26 hour day is sometimes being asleep when everyone else is awake. Nothing is open. Nothing is predictable. Life is weird. It's like living on Mars.
Have you seen this talk? https://www.ted.com/talks/nagin_cox_...rs?language=en

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Old 04-22-2017, 07:41 AM   #28
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Bad habits are terribly difficult to break.
+1

From my experience, for many people it may take a MAJOR shock to change their habits... because so many believe "that bad thing cannot happen to me". And the degree of shock varies. For me, overspending on my first credit card and getting publicly embarrassed for doing so by a retailer was enough of a shock to give me the discipline to never want to be in that situation again. But I have relatives who, in the same situation, either just run our of the store or get angry at the retailer and make a scene as if it is the retailers fault. Go figure.

In addition, people tend to want instant solutions to their money issues. Quick solutions do require them to make changes, While long term solutions do. Like a co-worker who complained about not having money while spending weekly on spent on lottery tickets and cigarettes. I once sat down and showed them with a spreadsheet how, if they just saved the money they spent on those items (not even giving up smoking entirely, just cutting back) they would have an additional $3000 a year to save and invest, and how that could grow over time. The response? "I like to smoke and that takes too long". It is sad that so many look to the lottery or "get rich quick schemes" to solve things (which, even it it did happen, will only be a temporary thing due to their habits) instead of the slow and steady process.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:11 AM   #29
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If you have 5 times as much as you need, why should losing 20 or 30% cause any worry?
I guess that's true but "IMO", "size matters". I'd much rather being down 20 to 30% from a high of 10m and need to adjust my lifestyle than down 20 to 30% from a high of 1m and need to adjust. In a odd way, it maybe hard for both, but........
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:15 AM   #30
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One of my friends is extremely good with money...for several years they lived on one very modest income and still managed to take a month long vacation every winter with their 2 kids...basically by driving south and camping in a small trailer at minimal cost. Now that their kids are older, his wife has went back to work and within a couple years they had saved up enough to put down payments on 2 rental properties. When he retires in 12 years with a govt. pension, they'll be living like kings.

Another friend made the incredibly stupid decision to build his dream house at age 45 and ended up with a mortgage that would have never been paid off even if he lived to 80. After 10 years of struggling to keep his head above water he sold the house and moved to an apartment. Just like that he went from crippling debt to debt free and is now more relaxed than I have ever seen.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:45 AM   #31
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Funny I love to watch the people on Dave Ramsey's show who found 'Jesus' and discovered that my life didn't end when I sold my $60,000 F150 and the bass boat. Don't get me wrong I don't sit here and think I'm better then them.. I just enjoy another converts discovery.
Agreed. As a recovering non-saver myself, I believe "There is more joy in heaven over a sinner who repents..."
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:23 AM   #32
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I think were it not for this forum, and the internet in general I would have some sleepless nights. When I first started investing many years ago, I had a mentor to call that I would bounce ideas off and and get advice. My mentor has long since passed away and I have very few people IRL that I can talk to about finances, so this is it.
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:52 PM   #33
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When I was young, my W and I lived from check to check, plus irresponsible credit. I woke up one day and decided this was no way to live. W was not on board. So, we eventually went or separate ways. Current DW of 25+ years and I are / have been on LBYM plane since forever. Retiring this year at 60 and sleeping well.

I think LAYM is like any other addiction. Advice to those in that realm is like water off a ducks back. Unless and until they truly want to change, the spendy, spendy living has to go on.
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:55 PM   #34
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At one time I concluded that I attract friends who don't know how to handle money....

I have finally concluded that it's not my friends who have no money, it's that most people have no money. This is backed up every time I see one of those gummint reports showing what people have saved for retirement
I kind of realized the same thing. I wouldn't say it is most of the people we know, but an alarming number of people I care what happens to have money worries from living above their means. I'm glad our kids turned out to be savers. Good friends who were our financial role models never had a huge income yet retired early through LBYM and smart money management.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:02 PM   #35
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Wow, sanctimonious tonight aren't we, Lol, I wonder if we post these articles to pat ourselves on the back over how enlightened we are.
Hummm, well anyhoo. I don't pick my friends by their income, yep some of my BFF's have made bad financial decision and remained my friends. Personally I don't want anyone in my life who would kick me to the curb because I maxed out my credit cards.

Now as for people losing "sleep" over money issues I highly doubt that this is some how "revolutionary" nor original. I remember my parents stressing over money a time or two and when my husband went through his battle with cancer, We most definitely worried about money and sorry to disappoint you but yes we had health insurance, disability insurance an a well padded savings. That does NOT prevent stress.

and even though I'm semi retired, I'll admit I am concerned about this current administration and what will happened to healthcare. i am not trying to keep up with the Jones's or anyone else. i'm just worried about it because it could effect me negatively. I tend not to like stuff that does that.

I also lose sleep when my 20 year old goes out to a party at Temple University or this current stage where he's running around Philly begging little girls to love him.

Not sure how you guys interpreted this article and came away with everyone making poor money decisions in fact the article said 82% of the responders are making changes to ease the stress.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:17 PM   #36
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I don't worry about money. But I don't sleep well either.

My doctor says my brain is always "on" and I'm always thinking about something, which makes it hard for me to stop the chatter inside my head and go to sleep. I went without a good night sleep for around five years before my doctor found a sleeping pill that works for me. As long as I take it, I now sleep fine. The only side effect of the pill is that it makes me have really wild dreams. But never about money.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:33 PM   #37
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When I drink artichoke water I sleep like a baby. Same with eating Chinese Jujube. I can't even keep my eyes open.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:24 PM   #38
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Ah hah! The Jujube is most often associated with the Chinese and Korean who are fond of it and use it in folk medicine, but this tree is also grown in India, Vietnam, and also Greece, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Middle East, and the Caribbean.

And yes, it is said to make one sleep soundly. I do not have a sleep disorder, so have not tried to see its effect.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:28 PM   #39
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Oh, I didn't know that. But I like to eat them, nice crunchy, lots of fibers. I have a Lang and a Li in a big container. I've them ordered from Rain tree nursery in Oregon. I'm hoping the home grown fruits are sweeter.
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:23 PM   #40
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Li and Lang jujubes? Now, you lost me.

Searched the Web and found out that there are many varieties or cultivars. A Li jujube tree may have fruits as large as 3 oz. Wow. Did not know about that one.
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