Moving back to Europe

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister FWIW: https://www.a1autotransport.com/how-...ner-to-france/

It would certainly be cheaper to go DIY.

Here the quoted price includes much more than the container. It also covers door-to-door delivery, packing, making a detailed inventory for customs, customs clearance, insurance, etc... I am definitely paying for convenience.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREd It would certainly be cheaper to go DIY. Here the quoted price includes much more than the container. It also covers door-to-door delivery, packing, making a detailed inventory for customs, customs clearance, insurance, etc... I am definitely paying for convenience.

I've moved internationally 6 times. It's more than just convenience. Just once I did it DIY - never again. And seriously consider insurance.

[Huston55]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huston55 Having moved many times, including significant downsizing upon RE, my advice would be to be brutal when purging. It seems one always keeps more than needed, or even wanted after a short bit of time in the new place. Plus, you’ll have paid to ship it internationally. Some purging rules would be: 1. Haven’t worn or used it in a year? Purge 2. For personal items/memorabilia, if it doesn’t bring you tears or overwhelming sadness to get rid of it? Purge (Note: pictures or digitizing is an option) 3. Old and/or worn out? Purge 4. Won’t fit into your new condo? Purge 5. Costs => to move it than to buy new? Purge (Note: Moving cost is mostly by weight so, you’d be surprised what qualifies for purging-most furniture, appliances, exercise machines, books, etc.) Plus (and I’m guessing here), my bet is you will derive psychological peace from having “new” stuff around you...in your new place. All the Best!

^^^What he said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB I've moved internationally 6 times. It's more than just convenience. Just once I did it DIY - never again. And seriously consider insurance.

^^^And, what he said.

[Alan]

When we moved from Houston to England in January 2017 we ended up with Atlas Moving, they did all the packing and the unpacking, and I just checked our final invoice including taxes which came to $1.67/pound for a load of 3,080lbs. This included our two 2-seater Laz-y-Boy recliners which were less than 2 years old and had compatible voltage (110 - 240). $5,149 and our own 20' container. United Vanlines quoted $11,500 which was $3.73/lb

Our son did the same move in September 2017 but United Vanlines worked best for him. He moved from a 1 bedroom apartment and took things like his dining table and 4 chairs, china cabinet, oak side table, bookshelves etc. Don't know his final weight as I don't have his invoice but it was $3,300 and it was a part load, shared with other(s), so took 12 weeks to arrive, which was perfect as it arrived the day after he closed on his house so no need to store it when it arrived in England.

I think we were very fortunate in the cost of our move, must have just hit it right with Atlas needing to fill their order book or something.

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan When we moved from Houston to England in January 2017 we ended up with Atlas Moving, they did all the packing and the unpacking, and I just checked our final invoice including taxes which came to $1.67/pound for a load of 3,080lbs. This included our two 2-seater Laz-y-Boy recliners which were less than 2 years old and had compatible voltage (110 - 240). $5,149 and our own 20' container. United Vanlines quoted $11,500 which was $3.73/lb Our son did the same move in September 2017 but United Vanlines worked best for him. He moved from a 1 bedroom apartment and took things like his dining table and 4 chairs, china cabinet, oak side table, bookshelves etc. Don't know his final weight as I don't have his invoice but it was $3,300 and it was a part load, shared with other(s), so took 12 weeks to arrive, which was perfect as it arrived the day after he closed on his house so no need to store it when it arrived in England. I think we were very fortunate in the cost of our move, must have just hit it right with Atlas needing to fill their order book or something.

The estimate I received is from Atlas, I am still waiting for an estimate from United. But I have to say that Atlas has been on top of things from day one (excellent communication, showing up when they said they would, etc...). United has been more "flaky" so far.

The dollar amount quoted to me by Atlas is actually not that far from what you paid to move to England because I already reduced the weight of my stuff to less than 2,000lbs. At some point, there are probably some incompressible costs which lower the utility of further reductions in weight. Atlas says that I already don't have enough for my own container and they are proposing 3 "liftvans" (enclosed pallets).

Bonus: HSBC was able to successfully open my checking account in France. Now I need to figure out how to link it to my US account so that I can start making transfers.

[FIREd]

Update:

I just received an estimate from a second moving company: $5 per pound with United for my own 20' container. So I decided to go with Atlas ($3.50 per pound). Besides, Atlas has been all around more responsive and on top of things (United was supposed to get me their estimate one week ago). My packing/loading day will be on December 11th, a week before my flight back home to Geneva. Meanwhile, I continue to reduce the amount of stuff that will need to be moved. I am getting into heart-wrenching territory, but I got 3 large trash bags to the curb this week.

The two estimates were within 5% of each other both in terms on weight and volume. I am amazed by their ability to estimate the weight and volume of stuff by just glancing at it (they spent less than 2 minutes in each room).

On the financial side, I am almost done closing investment accounts on the US side. Over the past couple of weeks, I finished redeeming all of my CDs at Andrews Federal Credit Union and PenFed. They made me jump through a lot of hoops to get my money back (in the name of security of course). Redeeming my CDs at Capital One was a breeze (all done online). And I cashed in all my electronic i-bonds at Treasury Direct (super easy).

[Huston55]

Well done! Glad to see how much progress you’ve made. I hope you have a small celebration with some Geneva friends shortly after you arrive; you deserve it!

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREd Update: I just received an estimate from a second moving company: $5 per pound with United for my own 20' container. So I decided to go with Atlas ($3.50 per pound). Besides, Atlas has been all around more responsive and on top of things (United was supposed to get me their estimate one week ago). My packing/loading day will be on December 11th, a week before my flight back home to Geneva. Meanwhile, I continue to reduce the amount of stuff that will need to be moved. I am getting into heart-wrenching territory, but I got 3 large trash bags to the curb this week. The two estimates were within 5% of each other both in terms on weight and volume. I am amazed by their ability to estimate the weight and volume of stuff by just glancing at it (they spent less than 2 minutes in each room). On the financial side, I am almost done closing investment accounts on the US side. Over the past couple of weeks, I finished redeeming all of my CDs at Andrews Federal Credit Union and PenFed. They made me jump through a lot of hoops to get my money back (in the name of security of course). Redeeming my CDs at Capital One was a breeze (all done online). And I cashed in all my electronic i-bonds at Treasury Direct (super easy).

Sounds like great progress, and good for you to have taken 3 more large trash bags to the curb. I know it's emotionally pretty rugged to get rid of all that stuff, but I think you will be glad you downsized so much after you move from your big Alabama house into the (smaller) condo in Europe. It's nice to have some empty closets and cabinets and to not feel too hemmed in by excessive stuff all over ones home.

Many things are replaceable if you change your mind and decide later on that you really need them. When I moved, I threw out or donated over half my stuff; I filled and disposed of one trash bag of stuff for every box I packed for the move. And this was after I thought I was totally decluttered. I was very surprised to find out that I don't miss a single thing. I thought I valued that stuff, but honestly I haven't even thought about any it since the move. And I love having all the closet space this created.

Anyway, we're all cheering you on, from the sidelines! All of this is a HUGE step toward your new life and future happiness.

[Alan]

Thanks for the update, it really seems like it is coming together nicely.

December 11 is only a few short weeks away. When we did our big move in January 2017 we spent a few days in a hotel after the shipment had left. That turned out to be over cautious and while we spent those days saying last goodbyes to friends, they were mostly working so the days were pretty boring, and we wished we had just trusted that everything would happen on time and as planned. However, if I had it all to do again I would still allow a few days in case things didn’t go smoothly.

When our son moved over end of September 2017, I went over for a couple of weeks to assist in the final clear out and we did not make the same contingency plans. His movers arrived, packed and took his stuff on the day as planned and we flew out the following evening.

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Sounds like great progress, and good for you to have taken 3 more large trash bags to the curb. I know it's emotionally pretty rugged to get rid of all that stuff, but I think you will be glad you downsized so much after you move from your big Alabama house into the (smaller) condo in Europe. It's nice to have some empty closets and cabinets and to not feel too hemmed in by excessive stuff all over ones home. Many things are replaceable if you change your mind and decide later on that you really need them. When I moved, I threw out or donated over half my stuff; I filled and disposed of one trash bag of stuff for every box I packed for the move. And this was after I thought I was totally decluttered. I was very surprised to find out that I don't miss a single thing. I thought I valued that stuff, but honestly I haven't even thought about any it since the move. And I love having all the closet space this created. Anyway, we're all cheering you on, from the sidelines! All of this is a HUGE step toward your new life and future happiness.

Thanks W2R! With a future home in the 400-600 sqft range (barely larger than my current living room!), I really cannot keep that much anyway. So I have to be very selective. Especially in such a small space, I don't want to have clutter everywhere (cue the soundtrack of Hoarders ).

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Thanks for the update, it really seems like it is coming together nicely. December 11 is only a few short weeks away. When we did our big move in January 2017 we spent a few days in a hotel after the shipment had left. That turned out to be over cautious and while we spent those days saying last goodbyes to friends, they were mostly working so the days were pretty boring, and we wished we had just trusted that everything would happen on time and as planned. However, if I had it all to do again I would still allow a few days in case things didn’t go smoothly. When our son moved over end of September 2017, I went over for a couple of weeks to assist in the final clear out and we did not make the same contingency plans. His movers arrived, packed and took his stuff on the day as planned and we flew out the following evening.

I got burned with movers not showing up when they were supposed to before, so yes, I decided to be over cautious and give myself a few extra days between the move-out day and my departure date - just in case. I don't need the stress of a last minute screwup delaying my departure. But I agree, that last week will probably be pretty boring - though I will keep busy by trying to sell my car. But I already feel in limbo right now. With only about 1 month to go, the waiting game has already started. Everything is almost lined up, but there is nowhere to go just yet. Oh well, I am passing the time by doing some window shopping for a new car and a new condo.

[Bestwifeever]

I actually think $3.50/lb seems reasonable for the distance involved and the psychic relief you will feel at being able to start the next chapter in the FIREd book.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREd Thanks W2R! With a future home in the 400-600 sqft range (barely larger than my current living room!), I really cannot keep that much anyway. So I have to be very selective. Especially in such a small space, I don't want to have clutter everywhere (cue the soundtrack of Hoarders ).

Exactly!!! Even after all the downsizing that I did when I moved, I never use or look at half my stuff anyway.

For example, I kept all my old books from engineering school back in the Dark Ages. They are heavily annotated and worn, of course, and have a lot of sentimental value for me. However I have not looked at any even once in the three years since my move! I might as well have just donated them because they are doing nothing for me. In fact, I should have donated all of my books because I really only read on my Kindle or online these days.

Recently I went through my file cabinet and managed to reduce it from four drawers crammed with stuff (some from the last century!), to 1/2 drawer lightly filled. I should scan in those remaining papers; I have already scanned in all of my paper photos.

It is unlikely that I will ever move again, but if I do, I do not plan to take any more than will fit in the back of my SUV. Just two suitcases full of clothing, one box of kitchen/household stuff, a box of electronic stuff like computer, iPad, Kindle, etc, and a box of important papers and memorabilia.

Not to imply that you could or should do the same! Only you know what you need at this transitional part of your life. Just wanted to encourage you by pointing out that getting rid of stuff can be pretty freeing.

[haha]

I think you are doing an exemplary job. I am very impressed. I hope your life abroad will be just what you would like.

Regarding your space over there, I have been living in ~700 ft2 since 2007. I really got used to it, and in no case would I want to move farther out so that I could afford a bigger place. If the bigger place were right where I am now, and no more or only a little more money, I admit I would be tempted.

Ha

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha I think you are doing an exemplary job. I am very impressed. I hope your life abroad will be just what you would like. Regarding your space over there, I have been living in ~700 ft2 since 2007. I really got used to it, and in no case would I want to move farther out so that I could afford a bigger place. If the bigger place were right where I am now, and no more or only a little more money, I admit I would be tempted. Ha

Thanks Ha! I am certain that I will do well in a smaller space. I am focusing my search on a town where the price per sqft is higher than the surrounding areas and I will probably pay as much for a 1-bedroom condo there as I would a 2- or 3-bedroom condo just a couple miles up the road. But I would rather live in a smaller condo than compromise on location.

[Accidental Retiree]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Sounds like great progress, and good for you to have taken 3 more large trash bags to the curb. Anyway, we're all cheering you on, from the sidelines! All of this is a HUGE step toward your new life and future happiness.

+1.

[ivinsfan]

Have you rented a place for now. Sorry if you already answered that,but I was thinking you already had a condo picked out...good luck!

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan Have you rented a place for now. Sorry if you already answered that,but I was thinking you already had a condo picked out...good luck!

I have some temporary housing lined up. But I am still looking for a permanent pad.

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever I actually think $3.50/lb seems reasonable for the distance involved and the psychic relief you will feel at being able to start the next chapter in the FIREd book.

Yes, now that the sticker shock wore off, I think that I am not getting such a bad deal after all.

[FIREd]

Update:

This is it, only one week left before the movers come packing and hauling my stuff away. I have further reduced the amount of stuff to be moved and I have split it into 3 piles: the stuff that I will take in my luggage on my flight to Geneva (winter clothes, valuables, and electronics mostly), the stuff that will be moved by container (the bulk of my belongings), and the stuff that will be mailed to my new address via Fedex (important records and paperwork).

Except for my real estate holdings, I am now 100% cash. The euro/dollar exchange rate has been relatively favorable over the past few weeks and I converted half of my savings to Euros already (including all fees, I have been averaging $1.1511 per euro - better than the $1.20 I had planned for). HSBC and Transferwise have worked perfectly to convert my savings at a reasonable cost - between the two I have averaged about 1% in fees. Thanks Alan for suggesting both. I feel better now that I have taken some of the currency risk off the table.