Mr. Money Mustache Divorce Blog Post

[Bestwifeever]

I believe a lot of women want men not to focus on paying alimony, seeing their kids 4 days a month, fear of losing your job which results in incarceration due to non payment, etc.

If I had a new hobby, I might not be able to make men aware of the dangers of marriage.

What I'm getting from your post is, "don't pay attention to the financial devastation of getting divorced men, just think about something else".

I prefer to be informed of what occurs in the world.

Takes two to tango. Have a nice life.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

The misogyny displayed on this thread is pretty thick. Perhaps the posters that have strong negative feelings about women should look to vent those feelings elsewhere. It's inappropriate for a forum on early retirement and it's becoming distracting to the point of being offensive.

Facing the realities of divorce is not misogyny. Divorce statistics, discussing alimony payments and declining marriage rates and the reason for that, is not misogyny.

Sweeping it under the rug, or pretending the realities of marriage don't exist, doesn't help in any way.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I have been patiently reading the back and forth on this thread for a few days. I notice that many of those defending marriage here are actually defending aspects of any generic happy relationship - marriage or not - the closeness, the intimacy, cooking etc. “I love my wife more than ever”. That’s very sweet, and I respect that.

But none of it has anything to do with getting married.

I’m sure we all know some couples who have never married but love each other deeply. We probably know a lot more couples who have been married to each other for years - and can’t stand each other!

But ...100% of all divorced couples were married. They all went through the same processes, took the same vows, signed the same papers. Virtually none of them expected to get divorced. And yet they did anyway. And it will happen to 40% or more of marriages!

Talk to any divorced person and it is clear that at its core - after all the romantic trappings are stripped away- marriage is really a legal contract, with certain financial, tax, and legal implications. Some of the implications are good, some bad, all depending on the specific circumstances.

As Mr Tightwad and dvalley have shown, with facts and statistics, is that these implications can carry a lot of risks, especially for men, who are forced to pay the vast majority of alimony despite initiating the minority of divorces. Sure maybe he can mitigate the risks somewhat with a prenup - although these can be and are regularly challenged. Or maybe the divorce will be one of the less than 5% where the ex wife pays more. But these are rare circumstances.

The only way to avoid this sort of catastrophe in the first place is to avoid marriage completely. Which is what more and more men are deciding to do apparently.

Given how common and potentially devastating divorce is, why is it still so taboo to discuss it?

Excellent post. Hope everyone reads it.

Prenups are throw our routinely. A man that relies on one is a fool.

And its 3% of the spousal support payers are female, not 5.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Takes two to tango. Have a nice life.

Hi. Glad you posted that.

You mentioned it takes two to tango. Let's take a look at a serious subject. Spousal abuse. Violent spousal abuse. Now, the next time a woman is victimized, should she be told "it takes two to tango?".

So since we all know that sometimes a victim is innocent and has no fault in a situation, we clearly see it doesn't take two to tango.

I prevent spousal abuse at every opportunity. I hope the rest of you do the same.

 

[hausfrau]

I find this topic interesting. I admit that I don't know many divorced people, so I can only speculate on why people might split. I have trouble understanding why it happens after so many years of marriage and children, especially. I'm curious what is missing, or what they expect to find when they leave?

I love my child more now than when she was born. I expect that to continue as she gets older. A spouse is just as worthy of unconditional love right? What happens in the marriage when people love their spouses less over time? Maybe I'm naive and old-fashioned. Who knows? Maybe my husband will blindside me one day and ask for a divorce. Maybe I've just been assuming I'm happily married.

 

[haha]

I'll be interested in how MMM deals with his new found freedom. Will it be marriage 2.0?

People respond in different ways to divorce. My own DF RIP was a fly. When a fly is on the outside he stays on the screen hoping to get in. When on the inside he's on the the screen hoping to get out.

Very strong image. I like it.

Ha

 

[MikeD]

1) its on a percent of cases, meaning for every male that receives alimony, there are 33 females getting paid.

5) You seem like a genuinely nice man. I'm glad you're not divorced./QUOTE]

Thanks for both those and I mean it. I am not attacking you.

I am not referring to you in my stories, which I swear to be true and the quotes factual. In bringing up my buddy's statements I am giving examples of tolerating the extreme attitudes of some of my friends. I like excentrics and am, apparently, one myself. One of the things about me to which my wife was attracted was that I was a 'weirdo.' My aforementioned friend really says that stuff and often. I think I can readily recognize the emotionally based thinking in him because I lived with it in my Dad for 19 years. My father thought men and women were different in that they were not equal. I think they are different and both should have exactly equal treatment by the government showing no favors to either. Exactly. As one of my other close friends said to me when I was complaining about how my mother put up with my father, "We are all a product of our times." I had not clearly embraced that and it helped me immensely.

I don't like confrontation. I avoid it, sometimes to an extreme. So please don't think I am criticizing you. I am feeling vocal and like to talk and discuss things and tell true stories about experiences. That's how my wife and I have lived vicariously via our friends mistakes!

I was just pointing out that I could tolerate (and not confront) extreme views. I have great difficulty listening to my friend's opinions sometimes. But, as I tell my wife, if I only accepted people who were exactly right as friends, I would have none.

BTW, I am a feminist and not liberal. I saw my Dad not 'Let' my Ma work despite not having enough money. I strive to learn from other people's mistakes rather than my own but rarely have to timing to do so. I fall into the class of weirdos that encompasses "Libertarians" as I mostly think people should be free. That also means that I think people should be free to make mistakes. I do not believe protecting people from themselves is the government's job. For instance, I do not take recreational drugs but think people should be free to do so. As I think it does to most people wrt their own beliefs, It all seems so clear to me!

MOAR STOREYS!!!

Mike D.

 

[Olbidness]

Very strong image. I like it.

Ha

I liked your earlier references to standing on the trap door with another at the control. Spot on.

I don't hate women, I have a mother and sister and other women in my family that I would lay down my life for. My greatest fear is not to be in control of me. I have zero interest in controlling anyone else. What were're seeing is unintended consequences of social engineering. Equal rights is something I'm in complete agreement with but some men are rebelling against the misandry of the court system and the government at large. A man in the past would sign up for marriage if it were rare that he would have his home, children, life taken away.
Now it's all stick and no carrot.

Just look at the marriage and birthrate stats., and it's going to get worse. I'm seeing articles such as where have all the good men gone. Trying to shame men back to a broken system just isn't going to work.

I don't know where it will end up but I see it's too late for me. I do worry for my son.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Most of my HS friends are all still married. I have known many happy couples and many in my family. I dragged my ex to counseling more than once hoping to save our marriage. Both my arms were going numb and after many tests the neurologist determined that I was so tense my neck was literally strangling my arms. He told me something was seriously wrong with my life and I should figure it out. I left and it went away. I was making a lot less money than my ex but all I wanted was out at that point.

 

[aja8888]

I find this topic interesting. I admit that I don't know many divorced people, so I can only speculate on why people might split. I have trouble understanding why it happens after so many years of marriage and children, especially. I'm curious what is missing, or what they expect to find when they leave?

I love my child more now than when she was born. I expect that to continue as she gets older. A spouse is just as worthy of unconditional love right? What happens in the marriage when people love their spouses less over time? Maybe I'm naive and old-fashioned. Who knows? Maybe my husband will blindside me one day and ask for a divorce. Maybe I've just been assuming I'm happily married.

There is a book on Gray Divorce and why it happens. It's very common these days:

https://www.amazon.com/Gray-Divorce-What-Mid-Life-Splits/dp/0520295323

As far as reasons why it happens, there are plenty. I'm not going to try to list them, but they include changes in personality, lack of sex, infidelity, trouble with finances, etc, etc.

And usually, both parents always love their children, even of they decide to split up.

 

[ivinsfan]

Hurt feelings doesn't equal misogyny. I can take a lick and I can dish 'em out too. It's an interesting thread as long as everyone plays clean.

You see hurt feelings? I see a few posters who lump all women into the same category, condemn marriage etc,etc.

All life is full of pendulum swings, ie SAHM getting alimony, custody to Mom and so on. It's gradually starting to swing in the other direction as it should.

Compare this to the METOO movement woman regularly harassed at work, being passed over for promotion because they weren't friendly enough not even being considered for management because of their gender less pay for same work. This is swinging in the other direction finally..not everything is equal and it never will be.

Yet all businesses didn't treat woman like crap, just as all women aren't out to take their ex to the cleaners. Way too much pigeonholing going on here IMO.

 

[MikeD]

I find this topic interesting. I'm curious what is missing, or what they expect to find when they leave?

I think for men, and suspect the same for women, that it is a left-over biological imperative to spread one's genetics over as broad an area as possible.

Maybe people's innate desires and urges overcome their social pressure. I think men want to have sex with someone new. A female nurse friend of mine told me that she read that most sex-related heart attacks are with a new partner. It's more exciting with someone new, right? I have many urges which I don't follow-up on. I tend to look at every woman I see. I don't do anything about it. My wife doesn't like it because she is embarrassed but knows full-well that I am not going to do anything. I am not aggressive. I can't seem to not look. Being male has its drawbacks.

Maybe my husband will blindside me one day and ask for a divorce. Maybe I've just been assuming I'm happily married. /QUOTE]
One thing that every one of my bosses agreed on was that I talk too much.

My wife does not have that problem. Really hard initially when on a date. We overcame it. She agrees with my bosses but unlike for them, for her it's not a deal-breaker!

I think maybe you should talk to him about it. Rather than just hope for the best and maybe be surprised you could fix a small problem before it grows insurmountable.

My wife, who doesn't talk much, who says I make up for her, grew depressed and we talked about it and we made some adjustments and lived through it. It was sort of a mid-life crisis-ey period for both of us. We each changed some of our meds and behavior and we are happier than ever. She's quitting her last job this Friday!

BTW, we watch TV and there are a lot of real-life murder shows on Friday and Saturdays. I always refer to them as how-to shows. That prompted me to make a pact with her that we would not kill each other and just get a quickie divorce! We are not serious. Neither of us would be able to function w/o the other as we have been together sine 16/17 and would be lost souls.

Mike D.

 

[Amethyst]

Uh-uh, gaslighting me won't work. None of my posts gives evidence that I am unaware that many people are too selfish and untrustworthy to make good mates for good people.

Indeed, I referred to con artists of every gender, and implied that it is everyone's responsibility to be savvy enough to suss them out and not be fooled by their charades.

I admit all of your gender is not plotting and worthless. ....

What I would like is if you were aware that your kind nature is not shared by ALL women. .

 

[aja8888]

I tend to look at every woman I see. I don't do anything about it. My wife doesn't like it because she is embarrassed but knows full-well that I am not going to do anything. I am not aggressive. I can't seem to not look. Being male has its drawbacks.

Mike, you don't really think this (bolded) is unusual, right?

 

[hausfrau]

There is a book on Gray Divorce and why it happens. It's very common these days:

https://www.amazon.com/Gray-Divorce-What-Mid-Life-Splits/dp/0520295323

I just checked this out from the library. It sounds like an interesting read.

 

[aja8888]

I just checked this out from the library. It sounds like an interesting read.

In an earlier thread, I recall (guess here) that about 1/2 of today's divorces in the U.S. are considered Gray Divorces. Scary as those people are over 60.

 

[kgtest]

https://www.thestreet.com/markets/amazon-jeff-bezos-is-getting-divorced-14829239?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO&yptr=yahoo

And now Bezos and MacKenzie are divorcing. OUCH! That one will be costly. At least they don't have children to screw up for the duration of paying the lawyers.

 

[Olbidness]

Mike, you don't really think this (bolded) is unusual, right?

My best friend ruined my life. We were both admiring an especially
nice looking woman and he said jokingly that he'd like to get to know her better, and of course I agreed. Then he ruined my life by saying he's sure he's exactly what she's looking for. old, fat, bald. Now every time I see a beautiful woman those words come back to me.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

https://www.thestreet.com/markets/amazon-jeff-bezos-is-getting-divorced-14829239?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO&yptr=yahoo

And now Bezos and MacKenzie are divorcing. OUCH! That one will be costly. At least they don't have children to screw up for the duration of paying the lawyers.

If he would have stayed single, he could have kept 139 billion to himself. Perhaps he thought it would never happen to him.

I would think he wouldn't notice the loss of 70 billion, at his level.

Now MMM, thats got to hurt.

For all of you readers that don't have Bezos money (none do), don't make Bezos' mistake.

 

[Olbidness]

If he would have stayed single, he could have kept 139 billion to himself. Perhaps he thought it would never happen to him.

I would think he wouldn't notice the loss of 70 billion, at his level.

At least he won't have to couch surf at his buddy's house.

 

[Music Lover]

Hi. Glad you posted that.

You mentioned it takes two to tango. Let's take a look at a serious subject. Spousal abuse. Violent spousal abuse. Now, the next time a woman is victimized, should she be told "it takes two to tango?".

So since we all know that sometimes a victim is innocent and has no fault in a situation, we clearly see it doesn't take two to tango.

I prevent spousal abuse at every opportunity. I hope the rest of you do the same.

This is another area where male victims are almost completely overlooked and there's a myth that almost all victims of abuse are female. Some studies have shown that up to half of spousal abuse victims are male...other studies show less. Try to think of the last time (if ever) that the abuse of a male partner made the headlines.

CDC Study: More Men than Women Victims of Partner Abuse » SAVE: Stop Abusive and Violent Environments

 

[MikeD]

Mike, you don't really think this (bolded) is unusual, right?

Well, I do it in front of my wife and awkwardly, or so I have been told. Even some of my male friends commented on it.

Mike D.

 

[Olbidness]

All life is full of pendulum swings

Compare this to the METOO movement woman regularly harassed at work, being passed over for promotion because they weren't friendly enough

Now companies are implementing new rules for dealing with the #metoo movement. No more one on one meetings with women, less mentoring, no business supper, ect.

Measures/countermeasures

 

[ivinsfan]

Now companies are implementing new rules for dealing with the #metoo movement. No more one on one meetings with women, less mentoring, no business supper, ect.

Measures/countermeasures

What's your point if you have one...

 

[ivinsfan]

What's your point if you have one...

I notice you have a habit of truncating people's post to slant the original posts.