MSN Money: "Reinventing retirement"

[Nords]

I don't read every post and I didn't find anything from a keyword search, so let me know if someone has already discussed on this series. Seems odd that it's been running for over a month and this is our first post on the subject.

It started at the end of April with an article on "The New Fantasy Retirement":
The new fantasy retirement - Series Home

That first article is actually titled "Retirement: The New Dirty Word" and has Ken Dychtwald's typical polemic in favor of working until you die:
The new fantasy retirement - MSN Money

An interesting sidebar was the commentary from artist Fred Mandell-- ESRBob, have you heard of him?

The second article came out at the beginning of May:
Get your dream job ... at 55 - MSN Money

This time Dychtwald is accompanied by Jeri Sedlar of "Don't Retire, Rewire" fame.

A few days later, the third article is a bit more supportive of the ER lifestyle:
7 common retirement traps to avoid - MSN Money

But apparently we're unable to accomplish the transition without seeking professional help:

"About half of today's retirees are really quite miserable in their post-retirement lives," psychologist and researcher Ken Dychtwald has concluded, based on 50,000-plus interviews he has done for his books on aging.
Those retirees end up unhappy because they are unable to adapt to the new retirement model, says Jim McCarthy, a managing director at Morgan Stanley.

After a couple weeks, the fourth article focused more on how people are actually enjoying their ER instead of seeking employment or wisdom:
4 retirees who are living big dreams

The fifth & sixth parts aren't out yet, but appear to be titled "Saving the world" and "Best places". I suspect they'll be more entertaining than helpful.

You may have inferred by now that I'm not a big fan of these types of "keep busy" and "you can't ER without paying for expert advice" articles, but there are bright spots among Dychtwald and all the other helpful advisors.

Has anyone else on the board contributed to these articles, or does anyone know any of the people profiled here? It's probably too late to change the mindsets of Dychtwald & Sedlar, but it would seem that the series authors have a lot to learn from this board's collective wisdom...

 

[Khan]

Is there a category for 'rather sell a kidney'?

 

[dumpster56]

I am really just learning how to stop wanting to work more. I have been ER since last year and the past few months I have been able to smell the roses. Being in my early 50s I still have maybe guilt about not having to work anymore. I mean I was working at 8 years old helping put the sunday newspapers together in NYC. Worked all through HS and College. So I worked over 40 years at some job.

 

[RonBoyd]

I haven't watched the subject series (for various reasons) so cannot really comment on it. However, there is also another "retirement" series currently in process (that I also haven't watched) that may interest some. PBS's Nightly Business Report has a year-long series of reports called "Get Your Finances Ready for Retirement" that appears two Mondays a month (started May 12th).

Nightly Business Report . Get Your Finances Ready for Retirement | PBS

Monthly companion articles will be featured in US News & World Report.

 

[walkinwood]

Thanks for sharing the MSN series. I found it interesting and inspirational. Most of the stories are about people doing things outside of the mainstream - peace corps, hang-gliding etc.

Edited to add:
I find the mainstream press articles on retirement a lot more interesting when they steer away from the financial aspects. For those, I find the professional journals a lot more useful (eg. Journal of Financial Planning).

The NBR articles are very basic, so if you already know about asset allocation, SWR etc, you may not learn much that is new.

 

[Nords]

Looks like they've finished the last two articles:
Quit your job; save the world -- MSN Money

The new hot retirement spots - MSN Money

Much more positive tone...

 

[Lsbcal]

I read through the 4 retirees big dreams story and it was OK. These stories are written to entertain more then to be informative. I think they can get people feeling that their ER lives are not exciting and maybe they're losers. Did you hang glide today? Why not, what a dull life you must lead. Where are the stories about people enjoying growing flowers in their back yards or taking a walk and watching the birds? And why aren't you running that marathon instead of sitting around reading those novels with those extra pounds around your waste?

Well most of us are probably guilty of trying to find something to brag a little about no matter what age we are. I know I am guilty as charged. I run a lot, learn French, do oil painting, ... . Still those stories can be real downers. I wonder if it's just an American phenomena, a reflection of our youth oriented culture. Do we really have to be always challenging ourselves? Anybody else feel like that?

Where are the rants? You know ... I'm mad about it and I'm not going to take this anymore !!!

P.S. Don't mean to impugn Nords' motives here. I admire his surfing adventures even though I'm green with envy.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

thanx for post nords. hadn't seen it. good series. i relate to a lot of that. even the last one you posted. lived on boat. lived on st. croix. lived in florida. visited chattanooga (nice, but no threat to florida). been on vacation now for almost 2 years but i don't surf and i don't golf.

i can see myself in the peace corp for a few years or volunteering elsewhere overseas. would love to work with exotic animals on a reserve. whenever i see pictures in mags or stories on tv or read about them, the whole idea of it really moves me.

very much looking foward to dumping these houses, selling out and living poor. the way i live now is very comfortable, but it does not comfort me. i am not bored, but my life here is not interesting. so i prepare to trade a little comfort for a lot of interest. perhaps i'm just looking to bring some risk & reward to my retirement.

 

[Zoocat]

i can see myself in the peace corp for a few years or volunteering elsewhere overseas. would love to work with exotic animals on a reserve. whenever i see pictures in mags or stories on tv or read about them, the whole idea of it really moves me.

.

I looked into the Peace Corps and even completed the lengthy application but discovered that I would have to do some body renovation in order to pass the medical screening and even then, with my skin cancer history, it's unlikely they would take me.
And, I, too, would love to work around animals but not sure in what capacity. I know someone who retired and is now a nature guide at a reserve. He drives the safari vehicle around the reserve. Very cool job for someone who loves to educate and talk to people about animals.

 

[Nords]

so i prepare to trade a little comfort for a lot of interest. perhaps i'm just looking to bring some risk & reward to my retirement.

Just watch out for "May you live in interesting times"...

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

I looked into the Peace Corps...with my skin cancer history, it's unlikely they would take me.

sorry about the cancer of course but i thought i read that controlled medical problems are not such an issue. even still, there are plenty of other places to volunteer. what attracts me to the peace corp now is that i've wanted to do that since college but never had or took the opportunity, also i'm a little unsure of myself in this and so i like the idea of venturing off within some sort of structured environment. i might just wing it though. never know.

I know someone who retired and is now a nature guide at a reserve. He drives the safari vehicle around the reserve. Very cool job for someone who loves to educate and talk to people about animals.

that would be just so unbelievably so awesomely too cool. i could drive tourists around in the convertible stang on safaris. i can already picture me doing donuts on the savanna. fun fun fun.

Just watch out for "May you live in interesting times"...

watching my net worth deplete by 30% as i luxuriate in america hasn't been interesting enough?

there is a buddhist concept of praying for adversity so as to create opportunity to practice compassion. ok, i've had enough practice, thank you.

still, the theory holds and applies tangentially. everything here is so easy. so predictable. i could lose my eyesight and still be able to shop at the local supermarket, knowing all my products and their shelving that well. i know the roads, i know the weather, i know the animals, i know the people. i want to know what i don't know.

it isn't even to challenge myself. i don't feel the need to bungee jump out of a plane. but also i don't want to insulate myself from interesting times. i've already read all the national geographic magazines. i've already watched all the tv shows. i've lived such a protected life. now i want to see it. i want to live it, to experience it. if i survive it, i'll come back to my couch later and reminisce about an interesting life.

 

[unclemick]

Hmmm - this is my 15th year of doing nothing in particular and I think I'm finally starting to get the hang of it.

Been a wet year in Missouri - I may expand my level of expertise to watching grass grow - providing it doesn't get too difficult to master.

heh heh heh - should I feel guilty for not being hyperactive? Soooo far I've been able to fight it off. .

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

oh, i'm all for doing nothing in particular. i'm just tired of doing it here.

i don't need to make more things, i want to experience more life. i can hit the canvas later, you know, after the arthritis in my feet get so bad that i'll no longer be able to trek through thailand in search of baby elephants left orphaned by poachers.

i'm under no illusion that i'm saving the world. i just want to play with baby elephants.

as to patients: tested and passed. you don't get through alzheimer's without it. brother & sil trying to talk me into a roadtrip to tennessee again this summer. her nephews are already asking. "is that man coming with us again; he was fun." see, i told you so; i'm fun. dunno though, i might rather spend that money visiting dad or fixing up my house. when yer this cheap, you can afford to be patient.

 

[W2R]

(After starting with Nord's post below, we were experiencing some topic drift, so I moved the posts about art to this thread in "Other Topics".)

I don't read every post and I didn't find anything from a keyword search, so let me know if someone has already discussed on this series. Seems odd that it's been running for over a month and this is our first post on the subject.

It started at the end of April with an article on "The New Fantasy Retirement":
The new fantasy retirement - Series Home

That first article is actually titled "Retirement: The New Dirty Word" and has Ken Dychtwald's typical polemic in favor of working until you die:
The new fantasy retirement - MSN Money

An interesting sidebar was the commentary from artist Fred Mandell-- ESRBob, have you heard of him?

The second article came out at the beginning of May:
Get your dream job ... at 55 - MSN Money

This time Dychtwald is accompanied by Jeri Sedlar of "Don't Retire, Rewire" fame.

A few days later, the third article is a bit more supportive of the ER lifestyle:
7 common retirement traps to avoid - MSN Money

But apparently we're unable to accomplish the transition without seeking professional help:


After a couple weeks, the fourth article focused more on how people are actually enjoying their ER instead of seeking employment or wisdom:
4 retirees who are living big dreams

The fifth & sixth parts aren't out yet, but appear to be titled "Saving the world" and "Best places". I suspect they'll be more entertaining than helpful.

You may have inferred by now that I'm not a big fan of these types of "keep busy" and "you can't ER without paying for expert advice" articles, but there are bright spots among Dychtwald and all the other helpful advisors.

Has anyone else on the board contributed to these articles, or does anyone know any of the people profiled here? It's probably too late to change the mindsets of Dychtwald & Sedlar, but it would seem that the series authors have a lot to learn from this board's collective wisdom...

 

[Sarah in SC]

as to patients: tested and passed. you don't get through alzheimer's without it. brother & sil trying to talk me into a roadtrip to tennessee again this summer. her nephews are already asking. "is that man coming with us again; he was fun." see, i told you so; i'm fun. dunno though, i might rather spend that money visiting dad or fixing up my house. when yer this cheap, you can afford to be patient.

So go see your dad, go to Tennessee, you would really enjoy having the chance to plan and execute a trip like that, I'll bet. And everyone needs to see Graceland! Memphis is the coolest place, followed closely by Nashville. I've only been once, and wish we could go back and just hang out and listen to music there.

You know that the best part of a trip is the planning--that'll keep you engaged for a while. And that car doesn't like just puttering around town, you know!

 

[Billy]

Nords

Has anyone else on the board contributed to these articles, or does anyone know any of the people profiled here? It's probably too late to change the mindsets of Dychtwald & Sedlar, but it would seem that the series authors have a lot to learn from this board's collective wisdom...

RonBoyd

PBS's Nightly Business Report has a year-long series of reports called "Get Your Finances Ready for Retirement" that appears two Mondays a month (started May 12th).

I’m not entirely convinced that these Program Directors really want to learn from those that are actually retired and living the life.

I contacted Jack Kahn Director of Program DevelopmentNBR in Miami after watching the first several Retirement series that NBR was offering. After one financial advisor told the audience that retirement is a permanent vacation (showing cruise ships in the background, golf courses, Fast boats, and high end resorts photo after photo) and another advisor said that "she knows people’’ and they will need between 100-110 % of their current wages to live comfortably in retirement, I just had to write.

Jack was rather defensive of NBR’s position… Gosh, I guess we don’t know what we are doing.

LG4N

i've lived such a protected life. now i want to see it. i want to live it, to experience it. if i survive it, i'll come back to my couch later and reminisce about an interesting life.

Well put, LG4N.

Good for you.

Wish you the best!
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement

 

[Lsbcal]

...Has anyone else on the board contributed to these articles, or does anyone know any of the people profiled here? It's probably too late to change the mindsets of Dychtwald & Sedlar, but it would seem that the series authors have a lot to learn from this board's collective wisdom...

I think there is a tremendous opportunity for someone perhaps even on this board to write a good book on ER. There are so many articles that seem to be written by people still in the work force. Are there any that have been written by retired folks? Probably so. I'm thinking of the Boglehead book by Taylor & Mel though. They got a lot of personnal satisfaction out of writing this and a lot of exposure. Of course, if you write the book it might become w*rk and then are you truely ER'd or have you rejoined the work force? That's why I'm not going to write one.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Isbcal, we have several proud authors on the board, including Billy and Akaisha Kaderli, who wrote the Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement, and ESR Bob, AKA Bob Clyatt, whose book Work Less, Live More is wonderful. There is also the old standby, written by the Terhorsts and long out of print, Cashing in on the American Dream, about their early retirement. I would recommend all of them!

 

[Lsbcal]

Oops, I guess there were more people writing on ER then I imagined . Thanks Sarah.

 

[Billy]

Sarah in SC

Isbcal, we have several proud authors on the board,…

Thanks, Sarah, for the mention and the kudos. We (all) appreciate it.

isbcal

Of course, if you write the book it might become w*rk and then are you truely ER'd or have you rejoined the work force? That's why I'm not going to write one.

Hi Isbcal,
This is a viewpoint that many hold about retirement - you know, that once one retires, that’s it.

No more work, no more focus of one’s energy, no more bringing to fruition projects that are dear to you. One might simply want to laze around indefinitely.

It has been our experience that this isn’t true.

For example, when Billy and I lived in Chapala, Billy was quite involved in running the City tennis courts, even raising tens of thousands of dollars to build two additional courts. This was done on a completely volunteer basis.

Was this work? You betcha!

Did the commitment to this project somehow ‘invalidate’ our retirement status?

And of course the years we spent doing End of Life Care for our parents was certainly ‘work’ or ‘effort’ but we could only have done it in such large measure because we no longer held jobs.

We prefer to call ourselves ’Financially Independent’ - meaning we can choose what to do with our time. Our time is our own.

It’s not realistic to think that once one quits their job they never do anything productive again, or never bring in any income due to creative endeavors.

If you have been a contributing member of society before you retired from the work force, chances are you will continue to contribute. If you were creative, energetic and applied yourself before you left your job, you will continue to be so after you leave it -- perhaps even more so.

Life doesn’t just stop after leaving the job. There are countless opportunities to enrich your own life and the lives of others once the ‘daily grind’ has stopped. If you make a bit of cash, so be it. If not, you won’t miss it, because you are Financially Independent.

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement

 

[Lsbcal]

Hi Isbcal,
This is a viewpoint that many hold about retirement - you know, that once one retires, that’s it.

No more work, no more focus of one’s energy, no more bringing to fruition projects that are dear to you. One might simply want to laze around indefinitely.

It has been our experience that this isn’t true.
...

I seem to be putting my worst e-foot forward on this thread and promise not to post any more on it (except maybe to clarify). Billy, I only meant this in the most light hearted way. I never meant to impugn yours or anyone else's activities after retirement. People can relax, be lazy, volunteer feverishly, engage is a lot of individual pursuits -- it's all OK with me. I'm pretty active myself and agree very much with all you said. Perhaps I should use more smiley faces? That can be the problem with web posts -- you don't get to see my expression or hear my tone of voice as I write these silly things .

 

[Sarah in SC]

Isbcal, don't worry, Akaisha is not easily ruffled, she just wants to encourage people to make early retirement exactly what each person wants it to be, not conform to some media outlet's preconceived notion of what it "should" be.
You're doing fine, I promise!
Anyone who can create such beautiful artwork is amazing in my book! And like Billy and Akaisha and the other authors on this board (how's that book coming, Nords?) I bet you don't consider painting to be work, either.
It's all good!

 

[Nords]

(how's that book coming, Nords?)

OK, you asked.

The intro & first two chapters have been completely overhauled, thanks to all the hard work & suggestions of Bob Clyatt, SamClem, and others. I think they're done. Chapter 3's been drafted and is in [-]spouse hacking[/-] editing. I'm starting on chapter 4 of 12.

It's coming faster, but that's a relative term compared to glaciers or cold molasses. The biggest challenge is not getting distracted by all the [-]south shore summer surfing[/-] fascinating research out there while keeping track of all the contributions, references, & links. I'm no longer wandering around aimlessly but I'm not exactly taking large strides toward some sort of deadline. I'm probably closer to the finish than to the start but I'm still ambivalent about publishers versus self-publishing. I'll deal with query letters again when I'm done with the text.

The reactions I get from the professionals, this board's veterans, and other vets convince me that this is still worth the effort even if it's not speeding along. Starving authors either publish within a year... or they starve. Writing goes a lot slower when you lack a profit motive but it's a lot more enjoyable.

Andy R is working on a way to add attachments to social group posts. (It exists for posts to the regular forums but it doesn't exist for posts to social groups.) The feature appears to be feasible but it's a matter of figuring out how to set up the options or the code. When that's working then I'll post Word document chapters in the social group "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retiring Early-- FIRE!", invite you veterans & families & friends, and we'll see how it goes.

 

[Sarah in SC]

That is great news and I am impressed by the scope of your undertaking. I hope that you will be able to incorporate some of your timeless and hilarious stories within the important nuts and bolts parts--as that is, IMHO your prose really shines. Whenever I see a nice long Nords post, I settle in with a cup of coffee and prepare for transport to the Land of Nords (no, not Nod).
Thanks for the update!